How To Think Correctly

[starspacer]

Oh, I should add that it is imperative that that you can distinguish the here and now from the mental brainwashing and indoctrination the Masses provide. It is the Holy Grail of thought.

 

[zupcon]

Also I should not be surprised if you defend the idea that indicators drive price behaviour.

Hi Socrates

I use indicators, and rather a lot of them, although I will concede I use less with each passing year.

I can’t ever recall reading anything, anywhere, written by anybody at any time that indicators drive price behaviour, or are indeed supposed to be in any way predictive. An indicator is simply a representation of price, no more, no less. The market dosnt move because a green line crosses a yellow line.

What does concern me is this “urban myth” that appears to have manifest itself, even amongst traders far more experienced than myself that indicators are in some way predictive, or that they drive price. I was therefore surprised to hear you express this view; I genuinely would be interested if you could supply a reference to anyone making these outrageous claims. If so I'll sort em out once and for all and put a stop to this nonsense

Regarding CYOF, he’ll be back; he’s got heads to drill.

regards
mick

 

[firewalker99]

Ah, that's alright then. What about moving averages, what is your view on those ?

Good question, as a matter of fact I haven't quite figured out what to do with them.
So for the time being my reply would have to be that I, personally, haven't found them to be any use in my trading (hence I don't plot them on my charts) although I am aware that some (eg. wasp) have been very successful at implementing a strategy based on MA crossovers. Also, I'm fully aware that MA's can act as a guidance to indicate the direction of the main trend, but as probably is the case with many indicators, they usually aren't enough to build a strategy on (unless somebody shows me the opposite obviously).

And another question if I may....what about these journals then...how do they constuctively progress a trader to attain mastery ?
I'm not sure if they help a trader attain mastery, because therefore I would have to know how you define 'mastery'. But they do can help a trader who's suffering and isn't able to pinpoint the exact reason why he is losing more money than winning.

Journals are not a prerequisite, but in my opinion (and based on my experience) they can add valuable information to help you improve your trading based on a self-regulating process of continuous feedback. My journal on t2w was more a struggle than anything else, I know. But I'm still journalising offline each day (using phpbb as vbulletin isn't for free) with noting each trade, the result, what I did, why I did that and what I thought at the time (that is, if I thought anything at all because sometimes I just act on the signal). Then I keep some statistics (win/loss, profit/loss, average points per win, average points per loss, maximum successive losses, average expectancy per trade,...) to quantify what I see in numbers. I feel it helps me focus and keeps me disciplined, but a journal is a very personal thing and I can imagine others don't agree on that.

As for CYOF getting banned it is a shame and a loss to this thread.
People who are able to stand up and truly think for themselves in a proper structured manner are a rarity and a treasure.

Yes, people should stand up for their opinions and defend them if they feel they are right. And if they have something to back up their beliefs. I have no problem with that, as I had a quite heated discussion with temptrader myself some time ago. The problem begins when some are starting to react emotionally to what is otherwise a perfectly healthy discussion.

If I'm correct, CYOF is not banned because of what ]he's saying, but because how he is declaring his views. And for that, T2W has rules, whether one likes it or not. I have always tried to keep polite and refrain from using offensive language in my posts, even if I strongly disagree with one's opinion (and as you probably know from my journal I have on more than one occasion). But if one gets a warning and continues afterwards, then who is to blame?

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes, partly; no; yes, but not necessary.

Without correct thought, trading is merely a counterfeit representation. Pointless. Without Truth what are you? Who are you?

The naive teach fake beliefs. Again, pointless.

Marvellous explanation Starspacer on my behalf and on behalf of those who have truly clocked it.
My compliments to you.

 

[SOCRATES]

Good question, as a matter of fact I haven't quite figured out what to do with them.
So for the time being my reply would have to be that I, personally, haven't found them to be any use in my trading (hence I don't plot them on my charts) although I am aware that some (eg. wasp) have been very successful at implementing a strategy based on MA crossovers. Also, I'm fully aware that MA's can act as a guidance to indicate the direction of the main trend, but as probably is the case with many indicators, they usually aren't enough to build a strategy on (unless somebody shows me the opposite obviously).



Journals are not a prerequisite, but in my opinion (and based on my experience) they can add valuable information to help you improve your trading based on a self-regulating process of continuous feedback. My journal on t2w was more a struggle than anything else, I know. But I'm still journalising offline each day (using phpbb as vbulletin isn't for free) with noting each trade, the result, what I did, why I did that and what I thought at the time (that is, if I thought anything at all because sometimes I just act on the signal). Then I keep some statistics (win/loss, profit/loss, average points per win, average points per loss, maximum successive losses, average expectancy per trade,...) to quantify what I see in numbers. I feel it helps me focus and keeps me disciplined, but a journal is a very personal thing and I can imagine others don't agree on that.



Yes, people should stand up for their opinions and defend them if they feel they are right. And if they have something to back up their beliefs. I have no problem with that, as I had a quite heated discussion with temptrader myself some time ago. The problem begins when some are starting to react emotionally to what is otherwise a perfectly healthy discussion.

If I'm correct, CYOF is not banned because of what ]he's saying, but because how he is declaring his views. And for that, T2W has rules, whether one likes it or not. I have always tried to keep polite and refrain from using offensive language in my posts, even if I strongly disagree with one's opinion (and as you probably know from my journal I have on more than one occasion). But if one gets a warning and continues afterwards, then who is to blame?

I have found your reply very interesting and infomative, for which I thank you.

 

[firewalker99]

FW

Personally I don't use indicators, but addressing both you and Socrates, I think discussion of them is at many levels below the topic of this thread "how to think correctly". I concur with your final sentence about openness and this has clearly caused problems on this thread and others.

The whole purpose of T2W is to be an "online active trading community" and we should be able to discuss topics openly and in an adult fashion.

Your journal has been one of the vehicles where this kind of discussion can take place


Charlton

Thank you Charlton. Now, how can I give you that fifth star?

 

[starspacer]

Correct thought is avoidance of scams that brainwash and indoctrinate the malleable minds of the Masses. Trading forces children to become adults, although often at not inconsiderable financial cost. The Masses absolve themselves of any obligation to help others, just as they will not listen to (often) helpful advice from this and other threads.

As you know, the Truth seekers (Socrates et al.) were killed (or forced to kill themselves) to hide this from the public. It could well qaulify as the greatest discovery of humanity, if the Masses were to truly understand this.

 

[firewalker99]

I have found your reply very interesting and infomative, for which I thank you.

I am glad you have.
Now, if you wish to comment, criticize, react, or reply in any other way feel free to do so. By no means have I studied the subject of MA's enough to have a good understanding of their use or application. If you have anything you have to add on the matter, feel free to share.

I am sure the exchange of different views in an - as Charlton rightly puts in - adult fashion, can be beneficial to this board. But for now, I'm heading off to bed as tomorrow I have more work to do (study, trade, and analzye that is).

 

[Charlton]

Thank you Charlton. Now, how can I give you that fifth star?

Very kind of you - but really not needed

Charlton

 

[SOCRATES]

starspacer

Interesting.

Can you expand on correct thought ? Do you think that correct thought (in the trading environment) requires a moral framework ? Is this why you say it might be counterfeit and pointless ? Or do you mean that correct thought requires a "scientific" framework - that is to say a logical and evidence-based background that "proves" it to be a realistic rather than counterfeit representation and having purpose ?

Whilst I totally agree that the naive teach fake beliefs I would also add that those who are in the know, the non-naive have a much greater opportunity and capacity to teach fake beliefs - withness the snake-oil sellers. In their case it is far from pointless - its aim is to make money.

From our point of view, as traders, it is a distraction - unwelcome and potentially lethal

Charlton

Starspacer, these series of questions that Charlton poses to you.....do you mind if I were to reply on your behalf ....in detail....to hammer home tight all the rivets, so to speak ?

Do I have your permission, your approval, to "soc it to him", Starspacer ?....

 

[dlpirl]

Myth of the "Textbook Trader"

If the "textbook trader" has a consistently profitable strategy and follows it, he is guaranteed to make money. However, those who wish to be enlightened would have to read. This presents those who are anti-textbook with a problem.
Db

IMO the "Textbook Trader" does not exist. We all learn from both reading and doing. No one only does what he reads about. Theory and practice are in a never ending feedback loop.

Beware of those who claim to have arrived. It is quite possible they are disregarding major portions of this feedback loop.

 

[dbphoenix]

IMO the "Textbook Trader" does not exist. We all learn from both reading and doing. No one only does what he reads about. Theory and practice are in a never ending feedback loop.

Beware of those who claim to have arrived. It is quite possible they are disregarding major portions of this feedback loop.

I was using "textbook trader" as C did, in contrast to the "trader" who merely conceptualizes and theorizes. It is impossible for one to have a consistently profitable trading strategy if he doesn't trade.

Db

 

[dlpirl]

IMO the "Textbook Trader" does not exist. We all learn from both reading and doing. No one only does what he reads about. Theory and practice are in a never ending feedback loop.

Beware of those who claim to have arrived. It is quite possible they are disregarding major portions of this feedback loop.

And I wasn't responding so much to you, Db, as to a key point that appeared to me to be missing in discussion of the topic.

 

[starspacer]

Starspacer, these series of questions that Charlton poses to you.....do you mind if I were to reply on your behalf ....in detail....to hammer home tight all the rivets, so to speak ?

Do I have your permission, your approval, to "soc it to him", Starspacer ?....

Of course :cheesy:

 

[starspacer]

Where has frugi's post gone? He hasn't been censored has he?

 

[nine]

He hasn't been banned. He's just been suspended for being offensive in class; and then compounding it with stupidity.

 

[SOCRATES]

Of course :cheesy:

Starspacer, thank you.

As today is a trading day and tomorrow too, I shall be expanding on it over the weekend.

But for the moment, here are two axioms....( an axiom is a fundamental truth ).

" All human beings are part of the universal consciousness of all mankind"

There is a very stong link between thought and ethics, therefore....we are what we think.

"Transgressors succeed in being punished by their own greatest achievement.....and....the opposite is the case for individuals able to act within a framework of morality and are able to engage logic and reason and are able to act in accordance with this trinity"

 

[orion69]

£1.5Ml

Mucs tip Its at £1.5Ml if this is paid up this year. If not paid this year? It increases by 13% every year for upto 3 yrs! If still NOT paid up its BANKRUPCY Liquidation, repo and Nickl..son bobdeman [standard rule] Hope this will make you think correctly?

069

 

[SOCRATES]

Mucs tip Its at £1.5Ml if this is paid up this year. If not paid this year? It increases by 13% every year for upto 3 yrs! If still NOT paid up its BANKRUPCY Liquidation, repo and Nickl..son bobdeman [standard rule] Hope this will make you think correctly?

069

Now this...is the right way...to think correctly.....and much more effective ....than using a sledgehammer....to swat a fly...:cheesy:

 

[blackcab]

...here are two axioms....( an axiom is a fundamental truth ).
" All human beings are part of the universal consciousness of all mankind"...

This is interesting. Could you explain what you mean by "the universal consciousness of all mankind"? Is it something to do with:

a) The sum of human knowledge (if you could add everyone's brains together)

b) The perceived pool of humanity's knowledge (the consensus - what "everyone" regards as true - received wisdom)

c) The collective unconscious of Carl Jung

d) Something spiritual, religious, supernatural, 'other worldly'

Or something else? I'd like to hear.
Thanks.