How To Think Correctly

[CYOF]

If you're equating "process" with "strategy", that's fine. The label doesn't matter. However, I've seen no evidence of a consistently profitable process/strategy being applied to your trades. This is not a personal criticism, just an observation.

As for the backtesting et al, you are free to consider it "old stuff". However, you again fail to address my point, which is your reluctance to keep an open mind on the subject, a state which you claim to value.

As for my "expectancy" figure, if you believe that whatever figure is provided to you by habitues of message boards can be relied upon as accurate, you are being naive. To avoid attending to anyone who doesn't provide you with some figure or other is even worse.

As to the information I post being of no value to you, that's unfortunate. As to whether Bertie's posts are of value (what is his "expectancy", by the way?), we'll see how your account fares as the days, weeks, and months roll by.

Hope everything works out for you.

Db

An "open mind" means, for ME:

Willing to look at certain information, evaluate it with logical thought, decide if it has any real value in relation to what I am trying to achieve, and last, but not least, committing myself to explore additional information pertaining to the subject matter in question, with thorough research, for the purpose of obtaining the greatest value from that research..

One has to be selective - otherwise one will be like the majority, which I was, by the way, a senior member of for a long time.

If one can change their way of thinking, and break away from the "tunnel vision" effect that most traders seem to have, then, and only then, can one expect to make any real progress.

In relation to my current trading efforts, I have clearly stated that I was trying out something that I just had to get out of my system - which I have done - go and read my posts if you doubt what I am saying.

It was a challenge, that I enjoyed, and the $500 or so that I spent is really nothing in the context of trading - you should know this if you trade each and every day!

In fact, I will go as far to say that $5K is nothing in the context of trading for real profits.

To ever achieve large returns, one must think big from the very start.

By thinking big all of the time, and I mean day in and day out, your subconscious will, unknown to yourself, steer you in the right direction to achieve big returns. You must trust yourself and your own abilities. You must, of course, learn the correct way to think; otherwise it will be a futile effort.

How quickly you begin to see any real tangible results, will be in direct proportion to the amount of serious – or correct - thinking that you do.

Do you now see the value of How To Think Correctly, or are you still in the "tunnel".

I have given a sample glimpse of the numerous techniques available for what is called the "self improvement process", - if you doubt what I say, then do some research on how top athletes become successful, and you will quickly see that what I say is factual. As I keep repeating, one must be prepared to keep an "open mind" in relation to what they read - go back to the start and read again if you still do not understand what an “open mind” really means.

Oh, by the way, I also wish you the best with your trading and look forward to competing against you in 2007, when I will have no problem posting my Expectancy figure for all to see – I am actually looking forward to it, as I know that my efforts will be rewarded, why, because I trust myself and my own ability. This is 100% due to the way I THINK.

Regards,

 

[chump]

"By thinking big all of the time, and I mean day in and day out, your subconscious will, unknown to yourself, steer you in the right direction to achieve big returns"

Didn't work that way for me at all. Just off the top of my head I'd say there might be a zillion ways to get where you want to go,but which you take bears more relevance to your personality traits than to any general rule that you are suggesting. Don't think our subconscious could find it's way out of a paper bag to any real purposeful use except under certain circumstances which don't have much relevance to what we now do on a daily basis .

Let me give you something you already probably know ,but might not be focussing on. Big money can come from pretty small numbers. That is try this. Work out how to lose very little first and then how to keep hitting the till next for regular inflows.
Where those inflows exceed your annual expenditure by small numbers 3 to 4% pa
compounded over say 20 years you will be a wealthy man. Now if you had to do anything to your subconscious in that process it was simply to tell it to buckle up and shut up for the duration while you went about your non threatening daily business.

 

[SOCRATES]

You really are so thoroughly clueless, bertie. If nothing else, you do occasionally provide comic relief.

I am not clueless, it is you who is clueless.

You see above...how I say "thought is everything"....

You are too busy playing the fool and having stupid opinions,

therefore anyone with your mindframe is a waste of time and effort,

 

[dbphoenix]

I am not clueless, it is you who is clueless.

You see above...how I say "thought is everything"....

You are too busy playing the fool and having stupid opinions,

therefore anyone with your mindframe is a waste of time and effort,

Bertie, you've run wild and free through these boards for years calling people intellectual pygmies, stupid, worthless, dunces, pinheads, etc, etc, etc, all laced with strings of your idiot hahahas and you have the balls to accuse others of being childish.

But that's done. You continue to snow a handful of others who don't know any better, but everyone else is sick of it and they intend to defend themselves. I don't feel sorry for you, regardless of what your mental health issues may be. You're a bully and you can expect to be treated like one. If you don't like it, find someplace more accommodating, like ET.

Db

 

[in2uxs]

Thinking big regardless is a means to disaster. The world is full of people who think big and end up serving Mcflurrys for a living.

The Gordon Geggo attitude of "greed is good" is another perfect example of Hollywood thinking that has inspired a generation of numpties. On Day 1 numpty buys red braces and on day 10 he's hanging by them from a tree.

In my honest opinion the subconscious is the most powerful component to get right. A subconscious that dearly loves its owner will achieve great things, but if the subconscious sees you as a bit of a tit who's trying to better himself then take my words ... unless you correct old wiring ... your subconscious will eventually trip you up.

Having a system and sticking to it - and not taking any silly risks, not getting greedy, not thinking "it must go down from here and gambling on that belief - all these aspects are elements of your own self trying to trip you up. Recently I took a gamble on Gallaher and I won quite big - I know though that this was a very bad move on my behalf. The sensible thing, the professional thing, would have been not to have gambled at all because its only a matter of time before such a gamble turns sour and we're back to square one ... the subconscious knows this.

The key to success is yo correct old wiring from the inside out, and then get to know when you're acting in a self sabotage way. The next step is to be able to resist.

 

[dbphoenix]

Do you now see the value of How To Think Correctly, or are you still in the "tunnel".

CYOF, I've encountered this sort of thing dozens of times over the last twenty years, and I've learned that novices can't be saved from themselves if they insist on a self-destructive course. Fiddle all you like. Maybe it will all work out. I hope it does. But those of your arguments that aren't purely philosophical or theoretical are second or third-hand or worse. I've heard it all before. I don't need to hear it again.

Best of luck to you.

Db

 

[henry766]

Well said ( both of you)!!

 

[SOCRATES]

Thinking big regardless is a means to disaster. The world is full of people who think big and end up serving Mcflurrys for a living.

The Gordon Geggo attitude of "greed is good" is another perfect example of Hollywood thinking that has inspired a generation of numpties. On Day 1 numpty buys red braces and on day 10 he's hanging by them from a tree.

In my honest opinion the subconscious is the most powerful component to get right. A subconscious that dearly loves its owner will achieve great things, but if the subconscious sees you as a bit of a tit who's trying to better himself then take my words ... unless you correct old wiring ... your subconscious will eventually trip you up.

Having a system and sticking to it - and not taking any silly risks, not getting greedy, not thinking "it must go down from here and gambling on that belief - all these aspects are elements of your own self trying to trip you up. Recently I took a gamble on Gallaher and I won quite big - I know though that this was a very bad move on my behalf. The sensible thing, the professional thing, would have been not to have gambled at all because its only a matter of time before such a gamble turns sour and we're back to square one ... the subconscious knows this.

The key to success is yo correct old wiring from the inside out, and then get to know when you're acting in a self sabotage way. The next step is to be able to resist.

I couldn't agree more. If the mechanism of mind is presented with a mission it percieves it cannot fulfil. it becomes overwhelmed. The trick is to feed it at a rate it can cope with, and to keep up this rate.

Imagine you are able to step outside your body and remain there to observe yourself. Then what you do is monitor your own progress in this regard.

The rewiring you mention then occurs internally as a sort of self healing process under supervision.

Of course if you are wired to a different circuit you would still have to do this to line up, but the process is less intense and shorter,

 

[dbphoenix]

top post.......and a very common (next-step) action is to make a good profit, from an essentially inappropriate trade and then be self-lead down a merry path of slow destruction surrounded by utter disbelief that what worked so blazingly well before didnt repeat.....this is where the strategy/regime, or lack of, gets confused with the mystic psycho-gobble....while there's truth that one preceeds the other most jump into the wonderlust world of trading with a half-baked idea of procedure without having a clue as to the strength of their own character.....blindfolds and mine-fields etc.....combine the two and add water....hey presto instant cheesy peas for the smart money.....look around at how many traders, part-timers, make the same mistakes via indicia entrances and washy exit strats....then explaining away how the trade must be about discipline when the regime, itself, is fundamentally flawed....or combining a trend style entrance with an indicia based exit, vice versa........the swings and roundabouts of corrective periods versus the impulsive trend periods will confirm then destroy those same strategies.....ah, the psycho-babble industry.....be long on that....take away the markets and the psycho-babble market would be alive and prosperous.....yeah, be long on that....hehe....this thread proves the truth in that......

Imagine that the police force weren't trained in any structured way..imagine the amount of police men that join for all the right reasons....they''d quit pronto.....they'd introspect all the same guff....it's me....not good enough, not strong enough, not enough discipline, didn't breast feed enough.... the average policeman/woman faces an amazing amount of challenges.....to join, a candidate is quizzed enough to find fundamental weaknesses..... how do prospective traders PROVE they have character......they don't.....in many respects the average trader faces the same challenges, same fears, angst ad infinitum.....so yes, there has to be a depth of character for a trader to be successful....however ANY person may make a very "good" income from trading by simply having a good regime....no psycho-babble ....they may simply have to work harder and may accept a lesser income than a counterpart sitting at another desk.....from working, thinking, they surely are going to uncover stuff that exists underneath, who they are, what drives them.....they must do this at some stage to recognise that that stuff is exactly a driver of price.....yet....att he end of the day.....the trader HAS to come back to the regime.....getting on the waffle box.....a distraction.....easy give up of responsibility....not like a fault.....more a natural progression of tired and worn-out form the emotional beat-up....mate....get back onto the plan and the emotional dribb just falls away.....that's the brain doing what it does best....get back to the strategy, the regime, the plan....the useable stuff...label it anyway you like....functioning stuff.....can't drive a parked bus!......



cheers.....

J

Also a top post. But how many people will listen . . .

Db

 

[dbphoenix]

I couldn't agree more. If the mechanism of mind is presented with a mission it percieves it cannot fulfil. it becomes overwhelmed. The trick is to feed it at a rate it can cope with, and to keep up this rate.

Imagine you are able to step outside your body and remain there to observe yourself. Then what you do is monitor your own progress in this regard.

The rewiring you mention then occurs internally as a sort of self healing process under supervision.

Of course if you are wired to a different circuit you would still have to do this to line up, but the process is less intense and shorter,

Regurgitating again, I see, this time Steenbarger. Acting as one's own coach is, of course, a sound technique, but anyone wanting to know how to do it properly should consult the source (Steenbarger has written several articles for the Knowledge Lab, as well as at least one book).

Db

 

[CYOF]

Guys, some of you are(not all it appears) are picking this up the wrong way and focusing too much on the aspects of trading, which tends to be the big mistake that most traders make.

Successful athletes use a certain Process Of Thought, that they pay big money to private consultants for to learn, so that they can compete at their highest potential.

This is a FACT, and research will prove it!

Now, if it works for athletes, some of which will more than likely have a very low IQ, then why the hell will it not work for anyone else!

Again, one has to change their way of thinking before one can even begin to understand the benefits of such knowledge.

As another matter of FACT, the reason I am actually sitting where I am today, earning good money as a private consultant (and I have no academic qualifications what so ever!) is 100% due to me changing my way of thinking, which started in 2002.

So, the point is, if I can earn consultant rates, on par with most that have more letters after their names than NEWTOWNMOUNTKENNEDY, in the competitive industrial world, then I see no reason why I can't do the same in the competitive trading world.

As I keep saying, everything we do in life, and all that we attain, is 100% dependant on the way we think.

So, common sense will say, to anyone who is seriously interested in "making a real change in their life", to learn How To Think Correctly!

Regards,

 

[dbphoenix]

So, the point is, if I can earn consultant rates, on par with most that have more letters after their names than NEWTOWNMOUNTKENNEDY, in the competitive industrial world, then I see no reason why I can't do the same in the competitive trading world.

And that's a large part of your problem, and all the caps in the world aren't going to change that.

Engineers think that they can be successes in the market because of the way they think. Wrong.

Accountants think that they can be successes in the market because of the way they think. Wrong.

Ditto mathematicians.

Ditto statisticians.

Ditto MBAs.

If "thinking correctly" means putting pencil to paper and developing a consistently profitable strategy, fine. Otherwise, it's just piffle.

Db

 

[CYOF]

A little example -which by the way is a FACT, but it is up to the reader whether to believe it or not.

Yesterday, I went to the bank.

As I got out of my car, a Foreigner, who happened to be an Italian, pulled in in a rented car and put down his window. At first i thought he was looking for directions - but when he started to speak with broken English, it became very clear to me that he was a fashion salesman.

To cut a long story short, which us Irish have a tendency too not do, he had 2 high quality leather jackets and 1 high quality suede jacket - the 3 which would cost approximately €1,500 in a high street shop.

He was looking for €300, but me been the haggler that I am, offered him €200. We settled on the final price of €250.

This was an OPPORTUNITY, that I jumped on as soon as I saw the quality of the jackets - but not until I saw the quality - nearly as good as Gucci.

This simple event, which is true, will be used by me in my thought process, to remind me, each and every day, that the reason I now have 3 high quality jackets for X-mas -for €250 !!!! - was I acted as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

Do you now see what I am talking about - the act of trading is the easy part -what matters most is the mental conditioning - and this is an ongoing process that must be practised every day, for like most things in life - if is not used it will not work correctly!

 

[dbphoenix]

Do you now see what I am talking about - the act of trading is the easy part -what matters most is the mental conditioning - and this is an ongoing process that must be practised every day, for like most things in life - if is not used it will not work correctly!

Yes, I see what you're talking about. That hasn't been the problem. I do see, however, why bertie rings your bells: don't bother with testing or rules or any of the rest of that mundane drek. Instead, think, contemplate, intuit yourself into the music of the market, reach for that level of ethereal knowing.

Unfortunately, this is all nonsense. You just haven't lost enough money yet to understand that.

Db

 

[andycan]

A little example -which by the way is a FACT, but it is up to the reader whether to believe it or not.

Yesterday, I went to the bank.

As I got out of my car, a Foreigner, who happened to be an Italian, pulled in in a rented car and put down his window. At first i thought he was looking for directions - but when he started to speak with broken English, it became very clear to me that he was a fashion salesman.

To cut a long story short, which us Irish have a tendency too not do, he had 2 high quality leather jackets and 1 high quality suede jacket - the 3 which would cost approximately €1,500 in a high street shop.

He was looking for €300, but me been the haggler that I am, offered him €200. We settled on the final price of €250.

This was an OPPORTUNITY, that I jumped on as soon as I saw the quality of the jackets - but not until I saw the quality - nearly as good as Gucci.

This simple event, which is true, will be used by me in my thought process, to remind me, each and every day, that the reason I now have 3 high quality jackets for X-mas -for €250 !!!! - was I acted as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

Do you now see what I am talking about - the act of trading is the easy part -what matters most is the mental conditioning - and this is an ongoing process that must be practised every day, for like most things in life - if is not used it will not work correctly!

CYOF
i have been reading this thread and you have been given some real gems from various members
and maybe im losing the plot here but im still not getting what you want
thinking correctly is a perception
its based on who you are where you come from and where you want to go (among other things)
we all differ but we all have a common goal
each approach will be different because genetically/socialy/enviromentally we all are different
you can loosely structure thought but like anything there is a bit of give and take
i told you this before earlier in the thread i dont make an issue of the psychological situation because i dont need to
i have a method that works for me its not a system its not automated its discretionary.
some people may find my approach questionable others may say its good its really irrelevant because its for me and only me
and your approach to thinking correctly is yours and only yours

 

[henry766]

That was a luverly little story about the jackets there cyof, your obviousley one hell of a trader!!

 

[CYOF]

Yes, I see what you're talking about. That hasn't been the problem. I do see, however, why bertie rings your bells: don't bother with testing or rules or any of the rest of that mundane drek. Instead, think, contemplate, intuit yourself into the music of the market, reach for that level of ethereal knowing.

Unfortunately, this is all nonsense. You just haven't lost enough money yet to understand that.

Db

Db, again you fail to note the facts.

I have CLEARLY stated, that testing is of great importance, but only testing that is of benefit.

If one wants to read back, one will see, I noted that before one can start to TEST various position sizing techniques, which will have to be based on actual results - NOT THEORETICAL - a strategy with a POSITIVE EXPECTANCY FIGURE is required, and then, and only then, will REAL VALUE be obtained.

Why do so many think that testing, based on unproven facts, will be of any value!

Do you not understand the value of simulating your position sizing techniques based on live trading results.

To REPEAT AGAIN, and I am sort of getting fed up having to REPEAT MYSELF over and over:

1. You first work out your Expectancy from a Live Sample Set
2. You then simulate various position sizing techniques, using the SAME LIVE SAMPLE SET, to evaluate what you can EXPECT your expectancy figure to be with the various Position Sizing Techniques.

This is where the big money is in trading - not the Fluting Around with tweaking this and tweaking that!

If you have a good positive Expectancy figure - YOU LEAVE IT ALONE - and dont change the way you trade.

You simulate various position sizing techniques - BASED ON YOUR REAL RESULTS - to then maximise your returns.

I have no interest in making $200 to $500 a day, as most traders seem to be happy with.

I EXPECT to make $2k - $5k a day, and even more.

As I keep saying - THINK BIG or you will always be like the majority!

In relation to your last statement, this is another text book fallacy, who ever said that YOU HAVE TO LOOSE MONEY in order to learn how to trade.

You DON'T have to loose money, but you do have to learn How To Think Correctly.

PS: I have taken the time to highlight the KEY points to remember, this may assist some with the thinking process.

 

[SOCRATES]

Yes, I see what you're talking about. That hasn't been the problem. I do see, however, why bertie rings your bells: don't bother with testing or rules or any of the rest of that mundane drek. Instead, think, contemplate, intuit yourself into the music of the market, reach for that level of ethereal knowing.

Unfortunately, this is all nonsense. You just haven't lost enough money yet to understand that.

Db

Ha Ha Ha ...Carry on writing Journals, and backtesting and implementing "rules"...funny.

Can I ask you a question ?

On whose payroll are you to persist in trying to put peoples' heads in the sand the way you do ?

 

[dbphoenix]

Db, again you fail to note the facts.

I have CLEARLY stated, that testing is of great importance, but only testing that is of benefit.

If one wants to read back, they will see, I noted that before one can start to TEST various position sizing techniques, which will have to be based on actual results - NOT THEORETICAL - a strategy with a POSITIVE EXPECTANCY FIGURE is required, and then, and only then, will REAL VALUE be obtained.

Why do so many think that testing, based on unproven facts, will be of any value!

Do you not understand the value of simulating your position sizing techniques based on live trading results.

To REPEAT AGAIN, and I am sort of getting fed up having to REPEAT MYSELF over and over:

1. You first work out your Expectancy from a Live Sample Set
2. You then simulate various position sizing techniques, using the SAME LIVE SAMPLE SET, to evaluate what you can EXPECT your expectancy figure to be with the various Position Sizing Techniques.

This is where the big money is in trading - not the Fluting Around with tweaking this and tweaking that!

If you have a good positive Expectancy figure - YOU LEAVE IT ALONE - and dont change the way you trade.

You simulate various position sizing techniques - BASED ON YOUR REAL RESULTS - to then a maximise your returns.

I have no interest in making $200 to $500 a day, as most traders seem to be happy with.

I EXPECT to make $2k - $5k a day, and even more.

As I keep saying - THINK BIG or you will always be like the majority!

In relation to your last statement, this is another text book fallacy, who ever said that YOU HAVE TO LOOSE MONEY in order to learn how to trade.

You DON'T have to loose money, but you do have to learn How To Think Correctly.

PS: I have taken the time to highlight the KEY points to remember, this may assist some with the thinking process.

CYOF, as I've said, all the caps and bold aren't going to change the fact that you are flying blind, without a net, not even with instruments.

And if you're "fed up" with repeating yourself, then (a) stop or (b) begin listening.

Db

 

[SOCRATES]

Db, again you fail to note the facts.

I have CLEARLY stated, that testing is of great importance, but only testing that is of benefit.

If one wants to read back, they will see, I noted that before one can start to TEST various position sizing techniques, which will have to be based on actual results - NOT THEORETICAL - a strategy with a POSITIVE EXPECTANCY FIGURE is required, and then, and only then, will REAL VALUE be obtained.

Why do so many think that testing, based on unproven facts, will be of any value!

Do you not understand the value of simulating your position sizing techniques based on live trading results.

To REPEAT AGAIN, and I am sort of getting fed up having to REPEAT MYSELF over and over:

1. You first work out your Expectancy from a Live Sample Set
2. You then simulate various position sizing techniques, using the SAME LIVE SAMPLE SET, to evaluate what you can EXPECT your expectancy figure to be with the various Position Sizing Techniques.

This is where the big money is in trading - not the Fluting Around with tweaking this and tweaking that!

If you have a good positive Expectancy figure - YOU LEAVE IT ALONE - and dont change the way you trade.

You simulate various position sizing techniques - BASED ON YOUR REAL RESULTS - to then a maximise your returns.

I have no interest in making $200 to $500 a day, as most traders seem to be happy with.

I EXPECT to make $2k - $5k a day, and even more.

As I keep saying - THINK BIG or you will always be like the majority!

In relation to your last statement, this is another text book fallacy, who ever said that YOU HAVE TO LOOSE MONEY in order to learn how to trade.

You DON'T have to loose money, but you do have to learn How To Think Correctly.

PS: I have taken the time to highlight the KEY points to remember, this may assist some with the thinking process.

You are perfectly correct, but is exasperating isn't it ?

The fog is so dense that nothing seems to be able to penetrate it, despite all attempts.