Dow 2007

lurkerlurker said:
I'm going to try and trade these, otherwise that is me flat again.
Click to expand...

Out +7 net (buy 48, sell 55).

That is me for the day gentlemen. Back for the numbers tomorrow.

It may interest some of you to know that I will hopefully start position trading this index in a few weeks time. I feel I am too inexperienced to day trade properly, and that position trading for a few days at a time may be the best option. I think some of you here have suggested that before, and I am sorry I did not listen.

Good trading all. (I've just had 2 pip positive days in a row, providing I do not trade again today!)
 
lurkerlurker said:
Out +7 net (buy 48, sell 55).

That is me for the day gentlemen. Back for the numbers tomorrow.

It may interest some of you to know that I will hopefully start position trading this index in a few weeks time. I feel I am too inexperienced to day trade properly, and that position trading for a few days at a time may be the best option. I think some of you here have suggested that before, and I am sorry I did not listen.

Good trading all. (I've just had 2 pip positive days in a row, providing I do not trade again today!)
Click to expand...

How come the sudden change from intraday trading to position trading?
I thought your papertrading was going pretty well?
 
2468steve said:
short Dow cash @ 40
Click to expand...

I had a long limit order put in at same price as first one ... 13615 Fut... unfortunately did not trigger, so I missed that trade there. Could've entered with market order at 13620 though. missed opportunity there :|
 
lurkerlurker said:
It may interest some of you to know that I will hopefully start position trading this index in a few weeks time. I feel I am too inexperienced to day trade properly, and that position trading for a few days at a time may be the best option. I think some of you here have suggested that before, and I am sorry I did not listen.
Click to expand...

I'm short at 13665(F) for a position.
Also wrote the DJX July 138 Call and bought the XLF Aug Put.

Come on you Bears !!

this is the interesting part though - current gains are enough to offset recent losses and provide a little bit of profit for the week. Or do I "let me profits run" but potentialy give it all back if reversed. The Psychology of trading, don't you just love it ?
I will enforce self-discipline and stick with original plan for a close sub 600. :eek:
 
firewalker99 said:
I had a long limit order put in at same price as first one ... 13615 Fut... unfortunately did not trigger, so I missed that trade there. Could've entered with market order at 13620 though. missed opportunity there :|
Click to expand...

short is looking dodgy TBH....I'm torn between Dax weakness and NDX strength....

cheers
 
Switching to Position Trading

firewalker99 said:
How come the sudden change from intraday trading to position trading?
I thought your papertrading was going pretty well?
Click to expand...

Firewalker! Pleased to see you back on the thread. This change isn't sudden. I like day trading. However, I am doing this to learn more about trading and ultimately to profit. While I enjoy the challenge of day trading, I do not think that index day trading is suitable for me at this point. I am going to try and explain why, and perhaps this still belongs to the Dow thread as I am talking about Dow trading. If you find it more appropriate to comment on my journal, please do so.

Regarding the paper trading, it has been going well, however I regret to advise that I now find paper trading of limited use - I have not yet reached the stage where I can trade for real without any emotion, and therefore paper trading (while good to validate a strategy) does not correlate with my real trading.

My strategy consists of price and volume analysis. I use tick as a short term sentiment indicator for entering and exiting trades. I can still assess price and volume on a larger timeframe, and I can still use tick to pinpoint an entry in the direction my longer timeframe tells me I should use. This system shouldn't be too destabilised by position trading.

Intra day trading calls for quite a few trades, and I get hit by a wide spread of 4 (better than I am used to paying) plus the spreadbet bias, where the spread is moved up or down relative to the underlying mid price at S/R levels etc. I am not yet ready to trade full YM lots, so I am stuck with spreadbetting due to the smaller trade size. It is not in my interests to continue to enrich my broker by placing many trades.

I have been speaking to other traders who are more experienced in such matters, and I have heard the following. For spreadbetting, the consistent winners tend to be those who position trade. Day trading is rather more challenging, and those who day trade are trading against high odds due to the spreads, are likely to overtrade, and in most cases blow their risk capital before they have even scratched the surface.

I note that many here, including yourself, Atilla, and Dinos (all great traders IMO) also use position trades in addition to day trading.

If you bear with me at this stage, I will attempt to list what I still believe my limitations to be, and how position trading would assist with these:
  1. Undercapitalisation - I am forced to spread bet, therefore I must pay wider than market spreads. The effect of this is magnified with high levels of trades.
  2. I am still prone to emotional trading on some occasions.
  3. Sometimes I scalp, which is picking pennies up in front of a steamroller.
  4. In the future, I may not be able to watch the screen for the entire session.
  5. I cut profits short and don't get the full benefit of a trend.

Improvements by position trading:
  1. I will pay less commissions (both actual and as a profit/loss percentage) by trading less frequently. Position trading will by definition entail less frequent trades. This will help minimise the effects of overtrading on my bottom line.
  2. When I make decisions looking at the bigger picture, and out of market hours establish the dominent trend and "zones" which represent whether to buy or sell, I can reduce the impact of emotions. Relying on a plan which was developed during market hours and contains fear or greed isn't ideal. Unitl I am more confident in a proven track record, I think it is best to make as many decisions as possible out of hours.
  3. The temptation to scalp will simply be removed. If I wanted to do this while day trading, I could follow a rule not to scalp, but I think removing the possibility altogether will make things easier.
  4. With position trading, I could place limits to enter and exit while away from the screen, and check in on a position a few times a day or at EOD with good stops in place.
  5. Trading on a larger timeframe with the primary or intermediate trend will show me if I am wrong quickly, and allow me to profit from big swings when I get it right.

In summary, less trades, wider swings, decisions taken out of market hours. I can still apply my system with some modifications. My plan however is to learn as much as I can cram about swing/position trading in the next few weeks, while I build up another bankroll. I also wish to have enough risk capital (which i am not attached to in my own mind) which would allow me sensible risk/reward and money management.

As I intend to spreadbet the Dow at £1pp, £500 should be sufficient for this.

Comments welcome. I have given this some thought, and while I enjoy day trading I think I would find it easier to return to after less intense position trading which allowed me to build up a track record. I know simply switching timeframes isn't a solution to everything, but I will keep focussed on my development.

Short term for the next few weeks I will only be trading news on the Dow, taking small scalps of 10-15 points on moderate impact news, and with a target of 30-40 on big things like nonfarms.

Finally, if I am successful at position trading, I intend to build up enough of a bankroll and experience trading with £2pp and £3pp to give me the tools required to trade the YM with DMA. Naturally I will only trade 1 lot.
 
i've had 20 points today, but the way the market has been trading recently, i'm not too interested in trading the Dow or the Ftse at the moment. I'm packing up my bags and trading futures in other world markets that are volitaile. I don't care what i trade as long as it moves(the more the better), and like i said, for me personally the dow or ftse just isn't hitting it for me anymore. Soon as it starts moving i'll be back tho :cool:


Good luck everyone

Kev.
 
Kevin21 said:
i've had 20 points today, but the way the market has been trading recently, i'm not too interested in trading the Dow or the Ftse at the moment. I'm packing up my bags and trading futures in other world markets that are volitaile. I don't care what i trade as long as it moves(the more the better), and like i said, for me personally the dow or ftse just isn't hitting it for me anymore. Soon as it starts moving i'll be back tho :cool:


Good luck everyone

Kev.
Click to expand...

Good luck Kev .. your system needs volatility?
 
not really, i just like markets that move a lot, like the italian s&p(mib) which has a few hundered point range in a day. Lots of nice opportunites to pick up big moves, or lose big too lol
 
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