Bush's Visit!

[bonsai]

mayfly
I'm not sure the germans are very happy with democracy anyway.

I have the pleasure of watching a lot of german tv. Every chance
they have, they show events connected with royals.
Changing of the guard , Queen Mum , Anniversary celebrations etc
Their coverage is better than ours.

So the longing for a Kaiser is still there despite 60 years of
a republic.

and Schroeder is a pretty poor imitation of the real thing , even for Mike Yarwood.

 

[qaza]

Me propose it ? Bush and Blair used to argue that it was all about WMD nowadays its a far more noble cause ...........thats what I'm not buying.

The invasion of Afghanistan was in response to 9/11 and justifiably so. Do you believe that 9/11 justifies the Iraq invasion ?

 

[madasafish]

"The invasion of Afghanistan was in response to 9/11 and justifiably so. Do you believe that 9/11 justifies the Iraq invasion "

The Invasion of Iraq was justified on September 12 2001 when it became declared policy. Waht more justification do you want than that george W Bush was trying to finish what his father left unfinished?

To suggest other causes is not justifed by the statements of the US administration at that time..

Oh and why we are criticsing the French let us not forget the US are now adopting French policy on withdrawing from Iraq ...

 

[stevet]

madasafish

adopting french policy - you on drugs!!!

france told saddam not to worry - they would stop the invasion and poor old saddam got screwed!

france had a shit bucket load of money tied up with our mate saddam and thats the top monsiers there

france were the country whose secret service blew up the green peace ship - yep - i really want the french standing next to me when the shit hits

 

[bonsai]

mad
I think the bit about the french is covered in that article of mayfly's.

seems to set out their motives.

 

[stevet]

qaza

yep ironically saddam screwed bush and blair by making it seem he had WMD - and he did that to maintain power in his own country, keep his neighbours at bay and make them respect/fear him

saddams stupidity in losing the hen that lays the golden egg for no reason really outfoxed everyone - and in the end saddam has lost the most - but pretending you have WMD right to the bitter end - kinda has now scewed blair and bush - no one could have figured saddam was that stupid

remember they were threatening to use WMD on the US troops as they were on their way to the capital and i think everyone in the world was scared for the soldiers and ourselves back home

how quickly we forget and how quickly when we dont have the responsibility - that we jump on those who do - but thats life - always has been - always will be

 

[Mayfly]

Hi Bonsai,

I’m not a fan of the Royals and so I don’t really follow their fortunes in the generally accepted sense of the term. Although, I must say that I feel some sympathy for Charles, who seems to have been vilified in the press recently – mind you, I’m not quite sure what people expect when I hear that Fleet Streets prepared to pay circa £500K for a decent or indecent story. What have we come too? (OK, so I bought the Mail!)

Still, I guess the Germans could make a case for claiming the House of Windsor, as part of their own! Perhaps, that explains their fascination with our Royals – but then again, perhaps everyone and anyone claim a piece of them as their own these days? Why not? “The Firm” must be one of the most successful branding stories of all time!

You’ve go the feel sorry for the Germans. Achieved unification in 1871 and again 1989/ 90 was it? I don’t doubt their commitment to democracy for a minute – it’s worked very well for them – after all, their previous experiments with Prussian militarism and National Socialism were complete and total nightmares.

They’ve been “Royally” screwed by the French (noblesse oblige?) and totally ungrateful to Uncle Sam, if you ask me. Schroeder – a small man with a trophy wife?

Cheers

Mayfly

Ps Have you got a special satellite dish or soemthing special over there in East Cheam, then?

 

[bonsai]

don't take East Cheam too seriously, but yes I watch both
german and french.

got to keep your eyes on both of them, imo

Schroeder ? nah you got it wrong.

he's a man with a wife and a small trophy !

lol

 

[stevet]

i have lived in both france and germany - loved both the countries and the lifestyles - made me reflect att the time how fucked up the lifestyle was in the Uk

but france economically and politically really is a basket case - but what happened to the germans?- had it all and its all gone - they were so worried about protecting elements of what they had - that they have now lost everythng

 

[qaza]

stevet

maybe saddam thought that the WMD would stop the yankee invasion and maybe thats why he behaved as he did. whatever the reasons saddam screwed up .............no doubt about that.

As for jumping on those who have responsibility. Are you suggesting that some sympathy should be shown bush and blair ? If they were any good then they would have tackled the Israeli/Palestinian problem first because thats the root cause of the problem.

 

[bonsai]

steve
I think you are talking about West Germany ?

striving for a place?
rejoining the human race ?

they had something to prove.

but I wouldnt want East Germany for love nor money.
It just shows you that you should never make a wish,
(reunification) because it might come true ?

Well, they wanted it, now they got it.

 

[stevet]

bonsai

i think we managed to piss each other off in the past - but you made some good and real points here tonight and its good to know some can see the bigger picture

go figure with east germany - spent some time in west and east berlin and same people originally - but wow - how communism erodes the work ethic - the deal in the east was that you could never have a day off from work under communism, and never be ill - you had to be at work everday - but you werent allowed to do any work - except the bare minimum since it might create unsustainable efficiency

and you could not meet nicer people - and make no mistake - they want the trappings of wealth - but they would just say that they have got used to not working and they really do want it all without having to work - not in a nasty way - but they were just honest about their capabilities

and yep - reunification was the dream - but basically that and the European gravy train have screwed Germany for ever - it had it all and its lost it

the UK really is the only country in europe with any international respect politically and economically - who would have thought that years ago when we went begging the IMF for a loan - how things change

 

[bonsai]

ah, times change and we change with them !
the motto of New Labour.

The IMF deal was Dennis Healey.
Labour Mp and Chancellor without a clue.

Remember Brian what'sisname ? from New Zealand.?
His policy was "ignore the currency market, they'll do as we tell 'em "

 

[stevet]

yep - used to be great great times for currency traders - other people's arrogance is always a good thing to make money off

 

[madasafish]

French policy on Iraq? Give power back to the Iraqis asap.. US response was " rubbish it will take years".. Now it's "it will take 9 months"..

I rest my case.

Did France sell WMD to Iraq? No.

Did UK and US sell WMD to Iraq? Yes


I rest my case..

Rewriting history used to be the custom of Communist parties..:-(

 

[grubs50]

Well even if there was no link between Iraq and Alqaeda b4, there sure is now , thanx to Messrs Bush and Blair. Alqaeda could have easily been isolated if the problem in Palestine was sorted out but Bush chose the gung-ho approach which has in fact gained Al-qaeda more sympathisers and made the world definitely a more dangerous place. The unfortunate Turkish people being the latest victims.

 

[qaza]

stevet

you are obviously no fan of the EU, neither am I........but Tony is a believer so you have to question his judgement or motives because apart from creating a free trade area the benefits of the EU are not apparent [unless you're on the gravy train like the Kinnocks and the rest of the euro politicians]

Now what about his judgement or motives on Iraq ? All the noble sentiments, fine speeches etc might bluff enough people in the short term but in the long run people will realise that bush and blair chose the wrong option and the result is more violence.

Of course it's hugely beneficial to people like the US vice president and the US and UK arms industry so I suppose that there is some sense in the way they're running the show but when I read bush's comment in y'days speech ........"we seek the advance of freedom and the peace that it brings".......I had to laugh.

 

[stevet]

madasafish

yep - it would take years - but i think america is deciding that its costing then a fortune, everyone's moaning, their guys are getting killed each day, so let some others take the strain

in a few years the truth about what france was up to with iraq during the last 10 years will come out

allegiences and partners and people change - thats life

 

[grubs50]

The freedom that made him cancel an open top drive down the mall in central london!! freedom indeed!!

 

[oatman]

mad, I was under the impression that Chirac sold Saddam nuclear reactors.

Mayfly's post y'day