Brexit - in or out

"Secret plan to open our borders to 1.5m Turks"

This makes me so angry i wish i could deport the people involved to live out the rest of their lives working in kebab shops in Turkey. Turkey is blackmailing the EU and the UK is in hand to take its share of the turd

"In a blatant attempt to avoid any controversy before Britain decides on its EU membership later this month, the leaked documents reveal that the European Commission wants to 'avoid major escalation' of the visa-free travel plans for Turks 'before the end of June'.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rs-symbolic-gesture-Turkey.html#ixzz4BSQ3iWN0
Follow us: @mailonline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...k-tell-ministers-symbolic-gesture-Turkey.html
 
Can Cameron survive a brexit ? doubt it, no cushy little office for him in Brussels...Im quite impressed with Jacob Rees-Mog at the moment, I understand his loyalties have to remain with his party and its leader but he is not afraid to stand up for what he believes.
 
A few pages ago I posted my five reasons why I would be voting remain
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/211636-brexit-out-104.html#post2765160
and it's interesting that no-one has sought to debate or challenge those reasons.

It seems that people prefer the yah-boo politics, the hyperbole of selective anecdotes, the selection of suspect statistic or just the downright and total condemnation of everything European. Shame things have to be decided like that.
 
In the end, the voter must decide whether Brexit or Stayin is good for his family, or not. Nothing that the politicians have said has convinced me, regarding the economy. Immigration? They are going to come, whether we like it, or not. The grass was green on the EU side, forty years ago. Now it is greener outside. That seems to be the British way. I am British and proud to be so but I do hope that the Europeans learn the lesson.
 
Apparently there is serious risk to the EU of other countries like Sweden following Britain out.
The basic business idea of Europe is OK but the political nonsense will be it's undoing.
 
barjon said:
A few pages ago I posted my five reasons why I would be voting remain
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/211636-brexit-out-104.html#post2765160
and it's interesting that no-one has sought to debate or challenge those reasons.

It seems that people prefer the yah-boo politics, the hyperbole of selective anecdotes, the selection of suspect statistic or just the downright and total condemnation of everything European. Shame things have to be decided like that.
Click to expand...




I also posted that no matter what the economic risks etc etc etc........i still want to leave.......it is YOU that doesn't get it, yourself and others that still keep peddling the same doom and gloom stories, even though we say they mean zero, zilch, nada......out means OUT.
 
Pat494 said:
Apparently there is serious risk to the EU of other countries like Sweden following Britain out.
The basic business idea of Europe is OK but the political nonsense will be it's undoing.
Click to expand...

Sweden is Sweden and must think it out for themselves, as the Brits are. The British are the first and they are hoping that others will do as they do, I suppose.
 
barjon said:
A few pages ago I posted my five reasons why I would be voting remain
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/211636-brexit-out-104.html#post2765160
and it's interesting that no-one has sought to debate or challenge those reasons.

I don't see anything to debate. Those are your reasons for remaining and that's that.

It seems that people prefer the yah-boo politics, the hyperbole of selective anecdotes, the selection of suspect statistic or just the downright and total condemnation of everything European. Shame things have to be decided like that.
Click to expand...

Given that it is almost impossible to get any truth out of politicians, we ALL have to resort to playing their game.
They tell us lie after lie and there are very few honorable ones amongst them.
Cameron got his majority because he promised to hold a referendum on the long festering issue of Europe. He has always been a Eurosceptic, as have plenty of others who now feel compelled to keep us in.

What governments need to understand is this. The people hold the power to decide who governs us. This power can also be taken away. We have already seen how this works when Cleggers and Milipede got their comeuppance at the last election.

This referendum over the EU is no different. If the people vote to leave, then we would expect the govt of the day to get on with the job that the people have decided on.

We are in charge of them, not the other way around. They will learn this lesson again when we vote to leave.
 
barjon said:
A few pages ago I posted my five reasons why I would be voting remain
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/211636-brexit-out-104.html#post2765160
and it's interesting that no-one has sought to debate or challenge those reasons.

It seems that people prefer the yah-boo politics, the hyperbole of selective anecdotes, the selection of suspect statistic or just the downright and total condemnation of everything European. Shame things have to be decided like that.
Click to expand...

Hi Barjon - my arguments in blue !

My Reasons for voting to Remain

1. After hundreds of years fighting each other EU countries now live together in peace thanks to their membership. I believe we have a responsibility to stay joined with our neighbours to help ensure that continues. So far as our own security is concerned we could rely on NATO but that would duck that responsibility which I wish to retain.
EU has nothing to do with peace in Europe - that has been the province of NATO which EU countries have weakened by not paying their dues and relying on UK & USA. The Eu army will put pay to NATO and will be a laughing stock for Putin - a man who understands strength and a purposeful will.



2. When I look back at our postwar economic performance pre-joining the Common Market and since I can't help but conclude that membership has proved beneficial so far as investment and jobs are concerned. As well as enforcing (often most irritatingly) a range of worker, consumer and social issues.

Postwar economic performance only picked up under Thatcher's de-regulation policies. It has been UK governments that have introduced improved workers rights over and above EU.




3. I want the certainty of advantageous trading terms with EU countries as opposed to the possibility of obtaining similar terms.
The EU is in (possibly terminal) economic decline. There won't be any advantageous terms - except to the EU who will want us to bail them out financially.



4. Free movement of the EU workforce enables easier resolution of our skill shortages and job vacancies. I believe this is really beneficial and shudder to think what my local hospital would do without EU nurses and doctors.
You can still have free movement from those you want/need without accepting the dross.

5. Immigration is a problem much wider than the EU (although free movement of non-worker EU citizens doesn't help) and I believe it is not a problem that can be solved by ourselves in isolation. The EU hasn't got its act together but it must and we should work from within to help generate effective action.
It's not the UK's prerogative to solve world immigration - a hopeless task in any case where it's everybody's "right" to make unlimited demands on limited resources. The EU will never get its act together because it's a huge committee whose members all have different agendas - and of course the leaders are all travelling first class aboard the Gravy Train.
 
I can't think of anything nasty that isn't going to happen if we leave.......Bloody hell, think i'll go get a Tetanus jab just incase......

What a bunch off darn losers, no credibility, and even if remain win, we still have UKIP as plan B, and remain have run out of ammo.:rolleyes:
 
counter_violent said:
Yeah, I may have mentioned this previously about the EU falling apart.:LOL:

Split didn't believe me....but he might believe Tusk !
Click to expand...

A book I read by John Masters. An elderly gent said '' We are on the Titanic. She is going down. We are all going down, but I'm going down first class''.
 
Well it looks like Dave-nice-but-dim has swapped sides....good on ya lad, knew you would see the light.

 
sminicooper said:
Hi Barjon - my arguments in blue !


EU has nothing to do with peace in Europe - that has been the province of NATO which EU countries have weakened by not paying their dues and relying on UK & USA. The Eu army will put pay to NATO and will be a laughing stock for Putin - a man who understands strength and a purposeful will.




Postwar economic performance only picked up under Thatcher's de-regulation policies. It has been UK governments that have introduced improved workers rights over and above EU.




The EU is in (possibly terminal) economic decline. There won't be any advantageous terms - except to the EU who will want us to bail them out financially.




You can still have free movement from those you want/need without accepting the dross.


It's not the UK's prerogative to solve world immigration - a hopeless task in any case where it's everybody's "right" to make unlimited demands on limited resources. The EU will never get its act together because it's a huge committee whose members all have different agendas - and of course the leaders are all travelling first class aboard the Gravy Train.
Click to expand...

Hi sminicooper

Yes I agree NATO is the primary formal treaty, but the living and working together of the EU countries and peoples is, I believe , a very significant influence on peaceful co-existence. Btw would you prefer to have Eastern European countries part of the EU or Russian satellites?

Yes, the main drive in economic performance came from Thatcher who was aided by a lot of foreign investment where our EU membership was in all probability a significant factor in that investment.

Whether or not the EU is in terminal decline (an opinion I don't share) the fact is that we know for absolute certainty where we stand with our EU trade whereas, if we leave, we don't.

Just like we can stand a bit of dross in our indigenous population so we can stand it in relation to free movement. The benefits for us outweigh the disadvantages imo.

No, it's not the UK's prerogative but we are under more pressure than most with illegals and commonwealth incomers adding to the load. My French friends already complain bitterly about their extra tax burden financing the policing on their side of the channel of people trying to get here. Wonder if they'll be so keen to help if we depart?
 
mike. said:
Well it looks like Dave-nice-but-dim has swapped sides....good on ya lad, knew you would see the light.

Click to expand...

Hilarious isn't it...they say one thing today and another tomorrow in the hope that people either don't take notice, or forget.

The think is Dave...we are going to deliver our message and if you don't feel up to the job afterwards, then step aside and let others get on with it.
 
Does anyone believe all these former PM's ?
Would you believe what this one says?
 

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