Brexit - in or out

Atilla said:
First of all, this is not about winning or losing arguments. This discussion about the pros and cons of Brexit. I rather lose the arguments and millions are better off for it.

What you say is true under the proviso all else remain the same as before. NOTHING will remain the same when the UK leaves the EU and tears up the regulatory rules and commission directives on trade for membership.

There is the Treaty of Rome stipulates rules for inter-trade in the union. Harmonisation of taxation and tariffs are key among many other policies to produce a balanced and integrated common market.

So after the 2nd year if UK unilaterally starts making changes to tariffs and cherry picks EU rules it chooses to adhere to whilst ignoring others, giving it unfair advantage over other countries, the balance of trade will have to change.

Think about it.

Nigel Farage on QT counteracts fall in sterling raising fuel and food prices by stating we will be free to remove Tariffs on imports that the EU imposes.

I'll spell it out for you.

1. UK reduces tariffs on non-EU imports which become cheaper than imports from EU

2. EU exports to UK fall

3. UK exports to EU rise as imports fall
a) because UK now substitute goods and services from rest of the world
b) because sterling falls UK exports are cheaper in EU

Now what happens to your clever little argument and the impact this will have on the 44% of our current exports to the EU?


We are told Nigel.F was a trader so I'm sure he knows all this but continues to make the claims.
Click to expand...

Wot is all this tripe?

Just accept that we are leaving and you need to move on.:LOL:

Post Brexit....what are you going to do?
 
counter_violent said:
How are those odds looking?
Tumbling I hear :LOL:
Click to expand...

Marginally. 2/5 and a bit of 4/11 still around versus 2/1 with some 9/4 still around - it's a lot closer than it has been.

When you say the market has spoken it sure has. With just some chance of Brexit ftse has closed at its weakest for three week. And the only currency to be weaker than the pound against the dollar this year is the Mexican peso.
 
Remain camp deliberately never talk about the dangers of staying in this economic sinking union. It probably won't exist very long after we leave and good riddance.
 
barjon said:
Marginally. 2/5 and a bit of 4/11 still around versus 2/1 with some 9/4 still around - it's a lot closer than it has been.

When you say the market has spoken it sure has. With just some chance of Brexit ftse has closed at its weakest for three week. And the only currency to be weaker than the pound against the dollar this year is the Mexican peso.
Click to expand...

Well, lets just say that these fluctuations will be as nothing that will happen to the Euro and the Eurozone indices after we vote out.

And lets face it, the only reason they want us in there is because we add credibility to their shambles of a club. Without us, they would really be up against it.

I'm not feeling at all charitable towards them....this mess is all of their own making.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/26/danger-brexit-break-up-eu-europe-russia
 
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counter_violent said:
Remain camp deliberately never talk about the dangers of staying in this economic sinking union. It probably won't exist very long after we leave and good riddance.
Click to expand...

Try a SWOT RAID on your Brexit strategy and see what outputs you get?
 
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barjon said:
Marginally. 2/5 and a bit of 4/11 still around versus 2/1 with some 9/4 still around - it's a lot closer than it has been.

When you say the market has spoken it sure has. With just some chance of Brexit ftse has closed at its weakest for three week. And the only currency to be weaker than the pound against the dollar this year is the Mexican peso.
Click to expand...

 
This as all become boring, like i said it would...

Apparently, if we vote to leave, we will lose our pensions, education standards will fall, the NHS will lose staff, the Army will desert, global temperatures will rise and penguins will drown for lack of ice to sit on, we won't export ANYTHING ever again, an asteroid will destroy London on the 24th of June...


But i'm still voting leave, because i will grow a pair of balls, and that is ALL that counts.

Over and out.........(y)
 
counter_violent said:
The latest nonsense......threaten pensioners into voting remain.
The mind boggles at how low these Two can go along with the rest of the establishment. Who dreams this stuff up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36509931
Click to expand...


CV m8 been tellin ya that most of Western advanced World including Japan has a ticking time bomb with declining birth rates and aging populations with unrealistic demands on NHS to maintain our current life styles as we know them.

Situation is far too complex to explain to the average layman, including you so it seems.
You are laughing it off and keep talking about the establishment this and that but you are pretty blind and the Brexiters full of nonsense. Really are promising the world without any numbers and electorate or at least some of you who like to be told you are great, just lap it up.

The way I see it, Brexiters argue everything will stay the same but hey we can have everything else on the other side of the fence too. Your sums SIMPLY do not add up.


Pure British birth rate is 1.35. Even with all the foreigners it's only 1.85.

Take out your calculator and work out when the post-war baby boomers will be reaching retirement coupled with their offspring another 20+ years later? Remember WWII ended 1945.

article-1679780-0F00DC3800000578-483_468x238_popup.jpg


59815216_male_life_expectancy_464.jpg



How are you going to plan for maintaining pension payments and NHS care for this aging population?

We will be much better able to cope and deal with these issues within Europe with free movement of labour. Young will go where there are jobs and the old will go to wonderful sunny countries like France, Spain and Italy.


Wake up! ;)
 
With all due respect, it's you and people with your mind set that need to waken up and stop destroying culture, reading your posts it's as though your mind has a pre-programmed set of parameters and no matter what CV says, you can't think or analyse outside your comfort zone.

Long sprawling posts, like this last one....the answer is simple, but not politically correct in this sad deformed world the liberal boneheads have made.....population decrease...um...try promoting the family and procreate, you know, have children instead of importing adults.

Do you ever bother to thing how much damage the removal of young fit mainly males does to third world countries who have higher child death rates, the resources put into child rearing only for them to leave and end up washing your car, even how it effects poorer European countries. No you and those with the same mind set never do.

My last post on this thread, it's like trying to get a socialist to stop calling his boss a rich barstuard....a wasted point to a blind soul.
 
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Sonicscooter said:
With all due respect, it's you and people with your mind set that need to waken up and stop destroying culture, reading your posts it's as though your mind has a pre-programmed set of parameters and no matter what CV says, you can't think or analyse outside your comfort zone.

Long sprawling posts, like this last one....the answer is simple, but not politically correct in this sad deformed world the liberal boneheads have made.....population decrease...um...try promoting the family and procreate, you know, have children instead of importing adults.

Do you ever bother to thing how much damage the removal of young fit mainly males does to third world countries who have higher child death rates, the resources put into child rearing only for them to leave and end up washing your car, even how it effects poorer European countries. No you and those with the same mind set never do.

My last post on this thread, it's like trying to get a socialist to stop calling his boss a rich barstuard....a wasted point to a blind soul.
Click to expand...


Hate to say it Sonic, but trying to manipulate family values and numbers smacks of the sort of thing Chinese have tried.

I agree with your sentiment very much about promoting family values but quite to contrary they are in decline with divorce, single parent families and damaged children coming out of broken families further placing burdens on social services.

Parks, libraries and youth centres closing down and kids hanging out on corners is what I see. Intentions all very positive and I endorse them but what we see happening is to the contrary.


Right now BREXITERS are caressing you with words you want to hear. You guys are lapping it up. Anything else is all baloney, scare mongering or anti-British because it under plays the hard working British man.

I look at these two and have nightmares on behalf of my children :whistling

article-2581925-1C53FCF500000578-926_634x668.jpg
 
The trouble with govt stats is that they could be wrong, they could be right, and if govt stats don't tell the truth which from time they correct themselves (immigration figures) then where is the truth from which to base an opinion.

So the stats cannot be relied on, forecasts cannot be relied on and if the economic argument is too complex to understand by govts then we have not a hope to understand. So the economic arguments are null and void (and all one sided scare mongering by the establishment anyway).

The only things left to base a decision on are:

The social effects on people's well being and the democratic process, remain fails on both these counts with British people not liking uncontrolled immigration and the EU being run by unelected socialists and is therefore undemocratic.

So by a process of elimination we can rule out economic arguments on both sides and concentrate on what we do know about and what's real.

The logical conclusion, therefore, is to vote out, we then have the option to control immigration and we are free to be democratic again as we once were.
 
Atilla said:
Hate to say it Sonic, but trying to manipulate family values and numbers smacks of the sort of thing Chinese have tried.

I agree with your sentiment very much about promoting family values but quite to contrary they are in decline with divorce, single parent families and damaged children coming out of broken families further placing burdens on social services.

Parks, libraries and youth centres closing down and kids hanging out on corners is what I see. Intentions all very positive and I endorse them but what we see happening is to the contrary.


Right now BREXITERS are caressing you with words you want to hear. You guys are lapping it up. Anything else is all baloney, scare mongering or anti-British because it under plays the hard working British man.

I look at these two and have nightmares on behalf of my children :whistling

article-2581925-1C53FCF500000578-926_634x668.jpg
Click to expand...



Sorry i'm just not spending any more time reading your posts, you're simply waffling now, not making an ounce of sense, you don't even try or venture into other areas of thinking, your mind needs to stop following a flow chart. and my children make more valid points....have fun.
 
Signalcalc said:
..........The only things left to base a decision on are:

The social effects on people's well being and the democratic process, remain fails on both these counts with British people not liking uncontrolled immigration and the EU being run by unelected socialists and is therefore undemocratic.

So by a process of elimination we can rule out economic arguments on both sides and concentrate on what we do know about and what's real.

The logical conclusion, therefore, is to vote out, we then have the option to control immigration and we are free to be democratic again as we once were"........
Click to expand...

You mean your logical conclusion, mine is quite different as I tried to explain in my earlier post
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/foyer/211636-brexit-out-104.html#post2765160
 
Now we have a terrorist cell on the rampage in the US.
At least 50 dead.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

I don't suppose Trump will refrain from capitalising on this event in his bid to become president. He is the right side of the right wing and the sort of person under normal circumstances would not have a hope in hell of ever getting elected.
Fast becoming a reality that he will.

This great big Liberal elite, chattering classes,experiment of all peoples living in harmony is an illusion.
People, with their cultural differences are never going to get along, so there is no point trying to force them to do it.
The EU experiment is ill conceived and foolish beyond words.
 
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