Brexit - in or out

[mike.]

The Bremainers will probably try to tank the economy so that they do not look stupid when the UK actually prospers on its own. The UK will prosper on its own and I suspect that that is what the fear is about.

The EU will lose 15% of its GDP. Single digit declines in GDP have wreaked havoc with economies. I shutter to think what will happen when they loose a $2.7 trillion economy. What about the free trade you ask? It is as @counter_violent said, the UK has had a decreased reliance on the EU from the get-go.

The UK has nowhere to go but up. Immigrants will not be able to freely cross into the UK and leech on the NHS, to my knowledge anyway. The financial burden of supporting bankrupt and inefficient economies like Portugal, Greece, Cyprus and pretty much every country south of France will be lifted.

No more EU directives, hello sovereignty.

Just on the off chance the remain-in camp manage to rig the vote and we do stay in the EU, Would you be willing to house and employ in a couple of english migrants for a couple of months ?...I hear Newport Beach is particularly nice this time of year...:whistling

 

[NickBk]

That's rubbish and a lot of nonsense. Everyone knows this is Great Britain and they love it over here. Dying to get in to this great Island. Literally. What embarrassment are you talking about.

You need a reality check.

I've been to the US where in front of lawns there is the stars n stripes. I got sick of seeing them. Yes mate i know I'm in the freaking us of a but kindly get that daft over sized clothe out of my alien face.

No thanks we're British. Don't need to be draped in it. No one is ashamed of being British or being in the UK. Speak for your self.

So you went to another country and didn't like that they cared for their flag, wow. It is their country and guess what if you don't like it don't go back. The point is you didn't move there in the 100,000's every year until enough of you starting claiming that the local flag was offensive to your values.

It is you who is unrealistic, there are many British and English scared to put up a flag for the football now and probably get their windows done in for being patriotic, or racist as it's now called. No other country in the world I have heard of locals being reticent to show patriotism, none.

I speak for myself, my family who live there, my friends who I grew up with whose parents are scared to go out, whose local schools have no resemblance to a local English school of years ago, whose services in the areas are shot with excess burdens on them. People like TokyJoe who wrote firsthand of his own experience up and down his own country.

The people who are 'dying' to get here are in fact dying to just take from here, in any way they can. They can't even be bothered to learn the language but are all ace on the benefit forms though.

If you like to roll over and offer your cheeks and that works for you it seems. This coming from a man who spent weeks trying to backtrack from when you said WTF and gave a 100 laughable reasons why you meant something that we all knew you didn't. If you manage to grow a pair soon then perhaps you might grab your country back too while your at it.

People who have views different to yours does not make them wrong and hopefully enough of them wake up and are motivated to bring back the Great in Britain on the 23rd. The Great even slipped out of regular usage a long time ago too, you for one wouldn't use it in many parts of London, that I am sure of.

 

[Splitlink]

You may be able to stop the EU citizens but whether we are in or out makes little difference to those from outside the EU who kill themselves (sometimes literally) trying to get here. So how will leaving the EU enable us to "take back control" so far as they are concerned? I feel so stupid having to explain this

You are right. This is only the start of East and West, really, coming together.. The leaders do not know how to stop this and Brexit is nothing more than a new idea. One that will be proved to have been a bad one.

Will it work? Nothing else has and, you never know, the immigrants may get an opportunity that they did not have before. I don't know what that is, so don't ask!.

Container traffic was non-existent fifty years ago. To-day a container ship loads hundreds on deck alone, and they come in every day. Let us see immigration officers inspect that lot--because they will have to!

I repeat what I have said before. It is world population increase. The whole world will even out. Land masses are easier. Islands more difficult. Cold weather conditions make it even worse but they'll come, over time. Last month, I think I read that 700 drowned from Libya to Italy because Turkey-Greece has been closed down, so they are looking at alternative routes.

Evening out means that we will have to share more and, therefore, we are all going to get poorer, as there will be less to share.

The last few years, euthanesia, until now, considered to be tabu, is being allowed "under certain conditions". So, the old and penniless? All those people dying in a hospital some time ago "is unacceptable" . Big laugh. They got caught!

This is a rant, big time! . Don't worry about it. It, probably, won't happen to you any time soon. It's creeping evolution and, always, happens to some other poor guy.

 

[Pat494]

There was a population explosion a long time ago in Scandinavia and the Vikings came to Britain. Ditto in Africa and Asia these days. Let's hope they learn to watch TV rather than make excess children. There will be fewer jobs when AI kicks in too.

 

[forker]

In many of these African cultures it's the norm to have multiple wives and dozens of children

 

[barjon]

I think the scaremongering phase is done....it is now obvious we are leaving.
I know it won't be much consolation, but I've known for a while

It's time to start talking about the new reality and to make sure as a country we don't falter in our endeavours.

So if the remainians could all stop with the negativity, that would be a good start.

Cheers.

Better get your trading pot on your knowledge then. You can still get 9/4 and that'd be 225% profit in less than two weeks. You've not traded like that for some time

 

[Atilla]

So you went to another country and didn't like that they cared for their flag, wow. It is their country and guess what if you don't like it don't go back. The point is you didn't move there in the 100,000's every year until enough of you starting claiming that the local flag was offensive to your values.

It is you who is unrealistic, there are many British and English scared to put up a flag for the football No way! Really? now and probably get their windows done in for being patriotic, or racist as it's now called. UK is internationally recognised as being cool Britannia mate and the world knows we are most tolerant of all nations. Only the other day I saw a white well spoken English gentlemen offer his seat to foreign woman with young children. No other country in the world I have heard of locals being reticent to show patriotism, none. That word patriotism. You obviously feel the country is under attack. We are not at war so stand down soldier. I feel good and strong and proud right now. Watching trooping the colour.

I speak for myself, my family who live there, my friends who I grew up with whose parents are scared to go out, whose local schools have no resemblance to a local English school of years ago, whose services in the areas are shot with excess burdens on them. People like TokyJoe who wrote firsthand of his own experience up and down his own country.Me too

The people who are 'dying' to get here are in fact dying to just take from here, in any way they can. They can't even be bothered to learn the language but are all ace on the benefit forms though. More rubbish. They are here working low end jobs with poor pay. Find me an English toilet cleaner in London.

If you like to roll over and offer your cheeks and that works for you Really now it seems. This coming from a man who spent weeks trying to backtrack from when you said WTF and gave a 100 laughable reasons why you meant something that we all knew you didn't. If you manage to grow a pair soon then perhaps you might grab your country back too while your at it. You know I didn't mean that as I was exposing the reason why Brexit campaign was doing better telling you stuff that simply doesn't add up. Forget growing any pairs and try reading some books to educate your self.

People who have views different to yours does not make them wrong and hopefully enough of them wake up and are motivated to bring back the Great in Britain on the 23rd. The Great even slipped out of regular usage a long time ago too, you for one wouldn't use it in many parts of London, that I am sure of.

This looks great. Absolutely amazing and nobody does this better

Flags for national celebrations, official buildings, boats and aeroplanes in international waters or football matchs are all well and cool.


These are not cool.

You see the difference?


Right now the only fear I feel is when cycling down hill reaching 40 mph + and there happens to be some un-thinking driver behind me following less than 10m behind. Tends to happen a lot cycling around Hove. I tend to slow down more often also. Probably not so much fearing death as missing out on my children's upbringing

You should get out and travel more.

Like you know when you take your car to the continent you can get a GB sticker with a flag and stick that on your caravan. You might just enjoy it.

I promise you will not get your windows broken. If you do I'll offer to pay get them fixed to compensate you

 

[Signalcalc]

What's with the youth vote ? Are the majority reportedly voting in? I would have thought they would be voting out to give themselves less competition in the workplace ?

 

[NickBk]

This looks great. Absolutely amazing and nobody does this better

Flags for national celebrations, official buildings, boats and aeroplanes in international waters or football matchs are all well and cool.


These are not cool.

You see the difference?


Right now the only fear I feel is when cycling down hill reaching 40 mph + and there happens to be some un-thinking driver behind me following less than 10m behind. Tends to happen a lot cycling around Hove. I tend to slow down more often also. Probably not so much fearing death as missing out on my children's upbringing

You should get out and travel more.

Like you know when you take your car to the continent you can get a GB sticker with a flag and stick that on your caravan. You might just enjoy it.

I promise you will not get your windows broken. If you do I'll offer to pay get them fixed to compensate you

Yes as an Irishman living in Siberia, raised in London, own a German engineering business, speak several languages and just finishing a 3 month trip of Asia. Yes I need to get out more and broaden my horizons.

As for the foreigners only cleaning your toilets I think you will find a good few on call as doctors for the NHS and nurses and if I recall correctly many don't speak much English and it was against their human rights to ask them.

Could probably find a lot of pictures around Hove too but I can't be bothered. At least you spared us the WTF's! Using your logic poor people in America shouldn't be patriots, sounds like a form of racism to me.

Pictures and smiley faces do not really form part of any grown up dialogue.

 

[mike.]

Container traffic was non-existent fifty years ago. To-day a container ship loads hundreds on deck alone, and they come in every day. Let us see immigration officers inspect that lot--because they will have to!

I disagree on that point split. Containers once packed are sealed and stored on the dock for a period of time prior to shipping there is no access to the outside locks from the inside, Once shipped over then they have to sit in the dock for further period of time to clear customs, drugs, guns etc... often stacked 3-4 high, very few would opt for a near certain death way to enter the UK.

 

[Atilla]

Yes as an Irishman living in Siberia, raised in London, own a German engineering business, speak several languages and just finishing a 3 month trip of Asia. Yes I need to get out more and broaden my horizons.

As for the foreigners only cleaning your toilets I think you will find a good few on call as doctors for the NHS and nurses and if I recall correctly many don't speak much English and it was against their human rights to ask them.

Could probably find a lot of pictures around Hove too but I can't be bothered. At least you spared us the WTF's! Using your logic poor people in America shouldn't be patriots, sounds like a form of racism to me.

Pictures and smiley faces do not really form part of any grown up dialogue.

So what's your interest in the Brexit vote then with you an Irishman, owning a German business and living in Siberia?

My logic is fine thanks. If you want to stick a flag on every door go ahead and do so. If patriotism and flag waving is your cup of tea do it. Talking about fear and and broken windows... some may call it scare mongering but to me it's a lot of tripe and rubbish. As before, speak for your self.

 

[Splitlink]

I disagree on that point split. Containers once packed are sealed and stored on the dock for a period of time prior to shipping there is no access to the outside locks from the inside, Once shipped over then they have to sit in the dock for further period of time to clear customs, drugs, guns etc... often stacked 3-4 high, very few would opt for a near certain death way to enter the UK.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/58...mmigrants-found-shipping-container-Essex-port

I did not have to look very far before I found this, Mike. Recent, too, dated June 5.

But I did not mean that that was the only way that they would get in. They'll use other methods, too, and even trade agreements between nations will involve movement of citizens.

I see all this as something that has to happen as long as the world population growth continues as it is. Promises from Farage, Johnson, Cameron and any party leader are all whitewash.

 

[Atilla]

Just in case some of you thought I was changing sides, here are my honest thoughts on the EU referendum.

Choice No. 1
One party telling the people they are great, they deserve better and can do better.

We are going to raise your wages and reduce price of houses. Who believes this to be possible?


Choice No. 2
The other party is telling people we are in this altogether and asking to join up hands with aliens from another planet. Especially so when the people are telling the party that there are too many aliens near them in the first place. They will then need to compete with the aliens for lower wages and higher priced accommodation.
Let's assume immigration into the UK stops or is better controlled.
Net result no change or very little. Illegal migrants from outside of UK get deported and they stop coming over. That's good.

But this could be enforced today. Brexit has nothing to do with this.

What about EU migrants? Let's say if they are employed they can stay. If they are unemployed and on benefits we deport them. That's good. But what if husband works and wife doesn't with 3 kids etc. Not to mention 1000 different social situ's.

Might cause a bit of an issue with Brits in other countries like Spain maybe? I have no idea how this will pan out.



There will be less regulation and instead of trading with a small continent which is getting smaller by the day, we will have the rest of the much bigger World to trade with.

Well this is a blatant twist of facts. EU is biggest GDP continent and growing. Just that BRICs growing faster.

Nigel Farage on QT said EU slaps tariffs on non-EU imports. So prices will go down when we remove tariffs. Sounds good but there is the other side. Remove tariffs and some percentage of our 44% export trade to EU will become out of bounds. So when he says nothing will change they are lying to you. Anyone with a little bit of analysis and thought capacity should weigh and consider cost benefit of ones actions and policies. One can't be member of a club and ignore it's rules cherrying picking what ever suits.

We will not be restricted by a small market. No but you will have to deal with each country and other trading blocks on their international trading terms. Effectively transferring regulation adn controls from one level of bureaucracy to another. Good luck with that one leading to years of legal wrangling and sorting out the mess. 7 years + and Canada still trying to agree terms with EU. You'd think they'd walk away and choose the UK route. Why would any country want to be a special trading member of the EU? Canadians sure are determined to join! They are not thinking like us? They don't know what they are letting them selves into. They can have our place and we'll have theirs.

We can tell the aliens not to come here any more and turn them away if we don't like them. We can try. Considering we can't control our own borders that's a tough one to deal with.

We will generate 300,000 more jobs. Maybe and maybe not. How where, when. What about jobs we will loste? 90-96% of all Economists and bodies predict major fall out and uncertainty lasting years. Brexiters call them scare mongers. They choose to believe the 4% and carry on saying they all have vested interests.

To top it all off, we will not have to pay £350m weekly membership fee and keep that all to our selves to build as many hospitals and schools as we like.

This is a clear distortion as before does not consider money and benefits that comes back from membership of the EU

Not talking politics hear simply numbers pros and cons. I'm effectively arguing with my self and weighing what ifs.

Haven't even touched the externals about the benefits of being an integral member of a bigger market with special membership privileges. £10 bn is a drop in the ocean compared to size of UK GDP. Anybody member of a gym here? What % of your annual salary do you pay for something one may use irregularly?

Everything is swimming around migrants which is skewing the whole debate.

Migrants help with GDP (raising economic activity) and reducing debt (in real & % terms), impending pension crises and falling average birth rates and people living longer.

We have little or no manufacturing. Finance market should also brace it self for a big mighty fall out.

Sterling will fall and fuel and food prices will go up. International GDP rankings will fall priced in dollars.

EU will come closer together among core countries and the PIGS will be allowed to fly away. UK will have a bigger competitive partner form an alliance across the little gap. The new EU will be much stronger, more determined and far better united than ever before. Germany, France and Holland along with Benelux contries will be sure to be in it. Even if France is not, the others will represent a very strong pull.

Russia and enemies of EU and the West will be pleased at the break up of EU.

Spain will renew its ambitions to take back Gibralta.

Labour party keeping quiet hoping Tories split to achieve what the labour party experienced with SDP. After those two dorkish looking fellas (Gove and Boris) take over the Conservative party, Corbyn will be rubbing his hands with glee as he and Nicola Sturgeon move in on their power aspirations. Wales and Ireland will have to start thinking very hard on their next move.

But hey it's ok. Nigel Lawson will continue to live in France and we'll have our sovereignty back.

Everybody in parliament will be looking at each other scratching heads and arses asking the question WTF did we just do and where do we go from here???


Choices eh?

 

[NickBk]

So what's your interest in the Brexit vote then with you an Irishman, owning a German business and living in Siberia?

My logic is fine thanks. If you want to stick a flag on every door go ahead and do so. If patriotism and flag waving is your cup of tea do it. Talking about fear and and broken windows... some may call it scare mongering but to me it's a lot of tripe and rubbish. As before, speak for your self.

I spent the first 22 years of my life in London.
I have dual citizenship and suspect I am a little more traveled than yourself.
I do speak for myself thanks and my views are shared by many of my family and friends in the UK.

Intriguing from a guy who writes in the next USA president thread, though we see you bring a lot of valid points to it and the obligatory smiley. One could also point out your incorrect usage and spelling, time and again by you of your own language but if you haven't figured it out by now I guess no point.

Ignore will suffice as it seems anyone not sharing your view must be wrong. I thought this was a discussion that had peoples experiences and view points not your view only a few smileys and a dislike of the Americans.


''Interesting reviews on Trump steak here. Maybe it belongs in the jokes section.
http://www.qvc.com/Trump-Steaks-(16)...ct.M15809.html

" Nothing but grease, and shrinkage is astonishing! Bought both steaks and burgers, would not purchase again. No redeeming qualities. "

Fancy putting your name on that! ''

 

[Atilla]

I spent the first 22 years of my life in London.
I have dual citizenship and suspect I am a little more traveled than yourself.
I do speak for myself thanks and my views are shared by many of my family and friends in the UK.

Intriguing from a guy who writes in the next USA president thread, though we see you bring a lot of valid points to it and the obligatory smiley. One could also point out your incorrect usage and spelling, time and again by you of your own language but if you haven't figured it out by now I guess no point.

Ignore will suffice as it seems anyone not sharing your view must be wrong. I thought this was a discussion that had peoples experiences and view points not your view only a few smileys and a dislike of the Americans.


''Interesting reviews on Trump steak here. Maybe it belongs in the jokes section.
http://www.qvc.com/Trump-Steaks-(16)...ct.M15809.html

" Nothing but grease, and shrinkage is astonishing! Bought both steaks and burgers, would not purchase again. No redeeming qualities. "

Fancy putting your name on that! ''

Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

Either way best wishes mate.

 

[NickBk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...if-we-leave-the-eu-no-one-will-trade-with-us/

Another view from a real businessman.

 

[mike.]

I remember that on the news Split, migrants found in tilbury docks too, Im not saying it hasn't happened but on both occasions they were in a serious medical condition once found...

But there will always be illegal immigrants trying to get in... The problem being is the mass influx of legal migrants that is putting pressure on for example NHS services, then having to take on extra migrant labour to cope with it...Something has to give way.

I have seen the hospital queue's first hand in A+E, It was never like this when i was younger, 4 hrs + waiting time seems to be the norm. What other option is there within the EU to kerb migration ? Zero.

Cameron is one of thee, if not "the" most powerful man in the UK, yet the un-elected EU bureaucrats laughed him out of the building and sent him packing, That alone is deeply worrying how much power they collectively have over us.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-chief-warns-Cameron-ahead-No-10-meeting.html

 

[Atilla]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hina-ambitions-in-clash-over-robot-maker-kuka

British government in the past would stand back and let national treasure either get sold. ie Rowntree's,

The German government is becoming more involved in efforts to thwart a Chinese bid for robot maker Kuka AG before Chancellor Angela Merkel’s trip to China next week.

Conflict is building up ahead of Merkel’s arrival in Beijing on Sunday for her ninth visit as chancellor, along with about 20 German company executives. This time may differ from the celebrations of trade ties in previous years as the relationship turns more competitive and Merkel faces growing domestic pressure to protect Kuka, which she views as a model company combining digital technology and Germany’s industrial strengths.

You protect your industries and help them grow to become future competition to ones rivals.


British government would simply stand back and let markets decides selling national treasures. Not a good idea.

 

[counter_violent]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...hina-ambitions-in-clash-over-robot-maker-kuka

British government in the past would stand back and let national treasure either get sold. ie Rowntree's,

The German government is becoming more involved in efforts to thwart a Chinese bid for robot maker Kuka AG before Chancellor Angela Merkel’s trip to China next week.

Conflict is building up ahead of Merkel’s arrival in Beijing on Sunday for her ninth visit as chancellor, along with about 20 German company executives. This time may differ from the celebrations of trade ties in previous years as the relationship turns more competitive and Merkel faces growing domestic pressure to protect Kuka, which she views as a model company combining digital technology and Germany’s industrial strengths.

You protect your industries and help them grow to become future competition to ones rivals.


British government would simply stand back and let markets decides selling national treasures. Not a good idea.

Thanks for making my case that the EU is an inward looking protectionist club.

First class job you did there.

 

[Atilla]

Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'

Who said if we leave the EU no one will trade with us?

Journalists making up questions and distorting facts. Remain campaign has never said anything like this.

Beware, it's in the interest of newspapers to stir it up as it sells newspapers.


I have been saying there is nothing stopping us from trading with who ever we like being a member of the EU?

Sir James Dyson then goes on to make the point him self.

Dyson exports far more to the rest of he world (81 per cent) than Europe (19 per cent). “We’re very pleased with the European market – we’re number one in Germany and France – but it’s small and the real growing and exciting markets are outside Europe.”


Why not benefit from EU and rest of the Worlds' markets. My point being is the argument put forward doesn't exist.

EU DOES NOT STOP US FROM TRADING WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD!

Sir James Dyson: 'So if we leave the EU no one will trade with us? Cobblers...'


Is anyone else confused by this headline from a national newspaper slandering facts?