Brexit - in or out

[Pat494]

Well that's copious quantities of Brexit from the money/business angle.

There is much more to life imho than just money. Some are completely oblivious to anything else. Money won't solve the world's problems especially if it is in the sticky hands of the FEW. Alright I agree it is essential to have sufficient but that should be about it.

While the rich trash the planet for figures in their bank accounts the rest should not stand idly by. We have a right to a reasonable existence. And so too do the animals and plants who can't defend themselves against the onslaught of the money grubbers. Yes we all depend on them for everything like food and shelter and we should not forget it. The sods should not be allowed to lay waste the rain forests and poison the Oceans. Enough is enough until the last remaining forests etc. become more imporrtant to the human race than some greedy humans.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Lets hope the Liberals get in. Those skinhead Far Righties learnt nothing from WW2

Is that not just the usual stereotyping..........the left get a voice but the right don't..........seems a weird perverted sense of democracy.........oops, sorry, forgot we don't live in a democracy.....

 

[OLdNoob]

Sorry if already shared in the thread

 

[forker]

Yes but what about all the big institutional bodies and businesses reports and assessments you disregard as fear mongering and then put up an unheard of organisation who are not even a polling company and Telegraph journalist hails it as news which you then subsequently parade as it suits your view.

fwiw - BoE and government have algorithms and economic models that have been tuned over the years and are far more likely to be accurate. They'll be able to tell you how much a 1p change in tax likely to bring in revenue and impact employment etc.


Let's be fair ref

All big business have invested interest for their own gain. They don't give a crap about you and I. An example of this in recent media is HSBC dropping 850 IT jobs that are being shifted to cheaper prices in the EU. They don't give a crap about those UK workers, some of which probably have been there over a decade. Any propaganda from corporations or agencies paid by those organisations is biased

 

[Pat494]

Is that not just the usual stereotyping..........the left get a voice but the right don't..........seems a weird perverted sense of democracy.........oops, sorry, forgot we don't live in a democracy.....

It's NOT the Right wing or Left wing I am objecting to. It is the extreme versions of either that are particularly nasty. We have tried both. Communism in the USSR and Nazi Germany. Both were awful for everyone except the top leadership who lived in splendid luxury. Think you are going to be one of the top people ? Not a chance.

 

[Signalcalc]

Aren't the top central players in the EU parliament (well those that manipulate the rules for the benefit of the EU) mostly ex-Communist party members?

Must be true - Farage said it in one of his EU parliamentary speeches available on Utoob.

 

[Sonicscooter]

It's NOT the Right wing or Left wing I am objecting to. It is the extreme versions of either that are particularly nasty. We have tried both. Communism in the USSR and Nazi Germany. Both were awful for everyone except the top leadership who lived in splendid luxury. Think you are going to be one of the top people ? Not a chance.

I ain't left or right.......i just hate the Pendulum.......but generally the Lefts atrocities seem to get forgotten.

 

[Atilla]

All big business have invested interest for their own gain. They don't give a crap about you and I. An example of this in recent media is HSBC dropping 850 IT jobs that are being shifted to cheaper prices in the EU. They don't give a crap about those UK workers, some of which probably have been there over a decade. Any propaganda from corporations or agencies paid by those organisations is biased

Well yes very true absolutely. Pure capitalism. Show me the money. Is steal of national strategic interest? If so only way to keep it alive is by subsidising with UK worker tax payers money.

Otherwise you have a bit of a dillema? Do you let it sink or do you dare associate with socialist doctrine?


Either way, precisely the reason why business will walk away from the UK. Cost burden too high and market place too small for economies of scale.

End result British people workers will lose.


So do you apply the same critique to

- Who ICSA are? https://www.icsa.org.uk/shop/aboutus

What's their angle? Are they like the BBC shouting out unbiased research and news?

 

[forker]

Any business that walks away from the UK due to a brexit alone will be in a very small group. Those would be companies using the UK as an access point to the EU. Now how could that affect jobs is an interesting debate. Some of those companies have a very small footprint here relative to employment. Many companies see the EU as a hindrance rather than a benefit. The few that see it as a benefit use the EU machine to block outside competition or operate on small margins and EU related trading fees could be costly. I don't for a second think this is a widespread case and certainly not enough to sway me into the in camp. Have you ordered your Turkish language books yet?

 

[Atilla]

Any business that walks away from the UK due to a brexit alone will be in a very small group. Those would be companies using the UK as an access point to the EU. Now how could that affect jobs is an interesting debate. Some of those companies have a very small footprint here relative to employment. Many companies see the EU as a hindrance rather than a benefit. The few that see it as a benefit use the EU machine to block outside competition or operate on small margins and EU related trading fees could be costly. I don't for a second think this is a widespread case and certainly not enough to sway me into the in camp. Have you ordered your Turkish language books yet?

You are becoming a socialist or Wot?

It doesn't matter why how when or what they do here! It only matters they are here providing jobs.

Don't get selective on jobs. They are just jobs. It's about level of economic activity and conduct of business. LEVEL = Quanity.


So if business fail to capitalise on the biggest market next door to us or uncertainty prevails inflicting a degradation how and where will those jobs be replicated.

Finding and doing new trade deals is fine but actions take time effort and much hard work to deliver.


So we are talkign about the biggest trading continent in the World and UK thinks it can do better deals outside sufficiently to compensate any loss with it?


Show some evidence instead of just words.

I reckon you may need a Turkish language book your self so you can strike some deals with those Fez heads coz they ain't in the EU, like where you want to be - so not very far up your street for those deals right? :cheesy:

 

[Pat494]

Biz Doğu ve Batı arasında sıkışmış

 

[forker]

Apparently from Thursday the government have to legally step aside from the campaign to let the official in and out run without interference. Petty the government has thrown everything at it up to now on taxpayers money. Give my money back you thieving scum.

 

[counter_violent]

Apparently from Thursday the government have to legally step aside from the campaign to let the official in and out run without interference. Petty the government has thrown everything at it up to now on taxpayers money. Give my money back you thieving scum.

Do you have a reference for this?

 

[forker]

You are becoming a socialist or Wot?

It doesn't matter why how when or what they do here! It only matters they are here providing jobs.

Don't get selective on jobs. They are just jobs. It's about level of economic activity and conduct of business. LEVEL = Quanity.


So if business fail to capitalise on the biggest market next door to us or uncertainty prevails inflicting a degradation how and where will those jobs be replicated.

Finding and doing new trade deals is fine but actions take time effort and much hard work to deliver.


So we are talkign about the biggest trading continent in the World and UK thinks it can do better deals outside sufficiently to compensate any loss with it?


Show some evidence instead of just words.

I reckon you may need a Turkish language book your self so you can strike some deals with those Fez heads coz they ain't in the EU, like where you want to be - so not very far up your street those deals right? :cheesy:

Do you honestly expect an out vote to be smooth sailing? You don't need to answer that because the answer is obvious. Just because there are some challenges facing us on an out vote does mean we walk away. This logic which you seem to be portraying is nonsensical. People need to stop looking at the immediate effect and start focusing on the long term effect which will be more jobs, a better NHS, wider scope for business potential (the world doesn't start at our borders and end at the outer boundaries of the EU states). When someone wants to buy a house they need to save for a deposit. This represents the short term effect and a tightening of finances. Long term effect is a house and an asset.

 

[forker]

Do you have a reference for this?

Was on LBC radio with some political correspondent talking about it.

 

[forker]

This is the in campaign forecast model

 

[Atilla]

Do you honestly expect an out vote to be smooth sailing? You don't need to answer that because the answer is obvious. Just because there are some challenges facing us on an out vote does mean we walk away. This logic which you seem to be portraying is nonsensical. People need to stop looking at the immediate effect and start focusing on the long term effect which will be more jobs, a better NHS, wider scope for business potential (the world doesn't start at our borders and end at the outer boundaries of the EU states). When someone wants to buy a house they need to save for a deposit. This represents the short term effect and a tightening of finances. Long term effect is a house and an asset.

Well of course the UK will do well and struggle for a good decade or two and then find a level.

Big fact is - it may rank in the top 10 now and sink to 20 in due course.

People will still it sell it as a success as they do Thatchers policies despite the fact we are now considering renationalising the railways and BT our telecommunications are crap and Queen speech has some nice to haves like an internet connection to every household by 2020 or something.

30 years later and South Korea have the best adn we are still trying to get broadband into some parts of the country.


BIG SUCCESS was it? Are you really sure about that?


I'm not prepared to give up the top spots and settle for less. Other than hype and cheap talk I do not see any facts or figures or remotely resembling common sense from the out camp.

I would summarise it as:

1. Sovereignty
2. Directives and Regulation
3. New trade deals without those in 2 and better ones we have with EU now.
4. Control migrants - who comes in and who doesn't


Tell me if I missed anything out?

 

[counter_violent]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/63...tish-Referendum-says-Brexit-campaign-WILL-win

 

[counter_violent]

Well of course the UK will do well and struggle for a good decade or two and then find a level.

Big fact is - it may rank in the top 10 now and sink to 20 in due course.

People will still it sell it as a success as they do Thatchers policies despite the fact we are now considering renationalising the railways and BT our telecommunications are crap and Queen speech has some nice to haves like an internet connection to every household by 2020 or something.

30 years later and South Korea have the best adn we are still trying to get broadband into some parts of the country.


BIG SUCCESS was it? Are you really sure about that?


I'm not prepared to give up the top spots and settle for less. Other than hype and cheap talk I do not see any facts or figures or remotely resembling common sense from the out camp.

I would summarise it as:

1. Sovereignty
2. Directives and Regulation
3. New trade deals without those in 2 and better ones we have with EU now.
4. Control migrants - who comes in and who doesn't


Tell me if I missed anything out?

I don't think anyone is reading your posts tbh....just saying

 

[Atilla]

What people may not know about our BT and mobile phone charges... They have been much higher than those in the EU.

Majority of shareholders in BT are non-UK big US & Japanese shareholders when it was first sold off.

So starve UK public of investment in comms infrastructure and reap rewards in sharholder dividends that flow to external owners leaving country.

The B in British Telecom has not been so British at all since it's been sold off and we've been ripped off. :idea: