Brexit - in or out

[counter_violent]

I suppose they don't teach history in schools anymore ? People will regret voting for the violent extremists in their frustration.

They are not violent extremists though are they. They are simply a collection of people who have had it with the establishment who have ignored their concerns for far too long.

Why is it we are even having this referendum on the EU? It's certainly not because govt and the establishment want it !

 

[Sonicscooter]

I suppose they don't teach history in schools anymore ? People will regret voting for the violent extremists in their frustration. Seems such a waste after centuries of over throwing tyranny to get human rights, freedom up to a point etc.

Western history teaches about WW2 and the holocaust, so people like yourself slate the right, but seems happy to forget Stalin's Gulags, or Pol pots examples of human depravity.....All of which are a disgrace on humanity, but today if you don't go with the Liberal agenda then you are labelled a maverick.

 

[Oscar Reed]

When's the new season of Britain's strictly come dancing start?

 

[Sonicscooter]

Strictly come dancing, X factor, Britain's got talent, Coronation street, Eastenders...........The population don't have time to fill their small brains with trivial matters like their entire future and that of their children, what with all the above AND re-runs of TopGear and The Big Bang Theory on Sky.......far too busy mate...........

 

[Pat494]

Western history teaches about WW2 and the holocaust, so people like yourself slate the right, but seems happy to forget Stalin's Gulags, or Pol pots examples of human depravity.....All of which are a disgrace on humanity, but today if you don't go with the Liberal agenda then you are labelled a maverick.

Not at all, I condemn violence whether it be from the Left or Right wings. Moderation and reasonable toleration are much better for all but the extremists. As in the ME they are being paid off in lead not gold and good riddance. The world is better off without them. No jail in the ME can hold them, so give them the treatment they hand out to others. About time the moderates did enough to protect themselves.

 

[forker]

Apparently from Thursday the government have to legally step aside from the campaign to let the official in and out run without interference. Petty the government has thrown everything at it up to now on taxpayers money. Give my money back you thieving scum.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/purdah-period-silence-officials-eu-referendum-friday

 

[counter_violent]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/purdah-period-silence-officials-eu-referendum-friday

Thanks.

This week could be the time to take advantage of the bookies, whilst they are still offering decent return

 

[Splitlink]

Not at all, I condemn violence whether it be from the Left or Right wings. Moderation and reasonable toleration are much better for all but the extremists. As in the ME they are being paid off in lead not gold and good riddance. The world is better off without them. No jail in the ME can hold them, so give them the treatment they hand out to others. About time the moderates did enough to protect themselves.

I agree with all that you say, Pat. Dictatorship brings extremism, one elite group of bosses at the top and bags of corruption. You, however, want to leave the EU which consists of the very group of ex-dominated countries that have experienced dictatorship, in one form or another. It has stacks of corrupt and inept leaders, because these countries have never experienced anything else. People, like you, are telling them that they will never be any good and that the UK is better off without them.

I think that the UK is just the country that the EU needs but those like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson would say that I am full of **it. I think that this is going to be a very slow process but that it will be worth it, and in less time than we think. A lot of ordinary people are feeling the need for treaty reform. At present, though, they are busy putting their own governments right. We are seeing a process where bi-party politics, with massive majorities for the one that wins, are being done away with. Spain has been without an elected government since Christmas, the second one is in June, around your referendum time. With five main parties trying to win as many seats as it can and Cataluña trying to go independent, there is little time for Brussels--but it is on the agenda. The same with other members, including the UK

 

[counter_violent]

I agree with all that you say, Pat. Dictatorship brings extremism, one elite group of bosses at the top and bags of corruption. You, however, want to leave the EU which consists of the very group of ex-dominated countries that have experienced dictatorship, in one form or another. It has stacks of corrupt and inept leaders, because these countries have never experienced anything else. People, like you, are telling them that they will never be any good and that the UK is better off without them.

I think that the UK is just the country that the EU needs but those like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson would say that I am full of **it. I think that this is going to be a very slow process but that it will be worth it, and in less time than we think. A lot of ordinary people are feeling the need for treaty reform. At present, though, they are busy putting their own governments right. We are seeing a process where bi-party politics, with massive majorities for the one that wins, are being done away with. Spain has been without an elected government since Christmas, the second one is in June, around your referendum time. With five main parties trying to win as many seats as it can and Cataluña trying to go independent, there is little time for Brussels--but it is on the agenda. The same with other members, including the UK

All too little too late Split.

Some countries are ahead of the curve, the agenda is in motion, the wheels are coming off. End of the farcical EU project.

 

[Splitlink]

All too little too late Split.

Some countries are ahead of the curve, the agenda is in motion, the wheels are coming off. End of the farcical EU project.

I don't think that it is, but only the referendum will tell. The SNP did not get independence, neither did Cataluña, although the "Independent" parties would say that they did.

The politicians say "What the people want is..."

BS---it's what the country wants. The British electorate wanted a referendum, otherwise Cameron would not be having one.

 

[forker]

I don't think that it is, but only the referendum will tell. The SNP did not get independence, neither did Cataluña, although the "Independent" parties would say that they did.

The politicians say "What the people want is..."

BS---it's what the country wants. The British electorate wanted a referendum, otherwise Cameron would not be having one.

Exactly where did the electorate instruct the government to run a referendum? from what i understand (correct me if i am wrong) it was Cameron's idea to be used as a tool to negotiate a better deal within the EU. In other words he used the standard project fear in his EU negotiations and the EU mostly called his bluff on 2 parts. That it probably wont happen and the electorate are too stupid to vote out. The volume of people wanting to leave has taken the naive by surprise.

 

[Splitlink]

I correct the last post. There has not been a true referendum in Cataluña, yet. There was one, last year, that had the question "Do you believe that you have the right to decide", or something similar. The answer, of course, was an overwhelming "Yes". So the ref question must be very clear so that there are no mistakes.

I hope that the British one will be, I have not seen it, yet.

 

[Splitlink]

Exactly where did the electorate instruct the government to run a referendum? from what i understand (correct me if i am wrong) it was Cameron's idea to be used as a tool to negotiate a better deal within the EU. In other words he used the standard project fear in his EU negotiations and the EU mostly called his bluff on 2 parts. That it probably wont happen and the electorate are too stupid to vote out. The volume of people wanting to leave has taken the naive by surprise.

I understand that the Conservatives were given an obligation to have a referendum in their mandate, when they were elected. You are closer to the ground than I am, out here. Correct me if I am wrong, though.

 

[barjon]

Exactly where did the electorate instruct the government to run a referendum? from what i understand (correct me if i am wrong) it was Cameron's idea to be used as a tool to negotiate a better deal within the EU. In other words he used the standard project fear in his EU negotiations and the EU mostly called his bluff on 2 parts. That it probably wont happen and the electorate are too stupid to vote out. The volume of people wanting to leave has taken the naive by surprise.

Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is, of course, stupid and naive. What a powerful and well-reasoned argument.

 

[forker]

Voting to continue the removal of democracy is stupid by all accounts.
Anyone who thinks different is naive

 

[forker]

I understand that the Conservatives were given an obligation to have a referendum in their mandate, when they were elected. You are closer to the ground than I am, out here. Correct me if I am wrong, though.

Thanks. I knew I was missing something. I don't recall that in their mandate at the time

 

[barjon]

Voting to continue the removal of democracy is stupid by all accounts.
Anyone who thinks different is naive

Unelected EU Commission bureaucrats can make day to day decisions and frame regulations (as do our own civil servants here). Any law, however, has to be jointly adopted by the European Parliament ( directly elected) and the Council of Ministers (indirectly elected).

I think there is little doubt that the directly elected European Parliament
members should have more power to hold the Commission to account but the structure is not entirely non-democratic.

You could argue that UK is not democratic in the sense that the will of the people is not sacrosanct. We vote for people where the majority form a government and lead us for the term of that government. They can make what decisions they like during that term whether or not the majority of citizens agree with them or not. Our system is one of voting for representational leadership not decision by referendum. We can throw out the party of government at election time if we don't like what they have done but, in essence, we vote to provide for a five year dictatorship each time- sufficient parliamentary majority allowing.

 

[counter_violent]

Unelected EU Commission bureaucrats can make day to day decisions and frame regulations (as do our own civil servants here). Any law, however, has to be jointly adopted by the European Parliament ( directly elected) and the Council of Ministers (indirectly elected).

I think there is little doubt that the directly elected European Parliament
members should have more power to hold the Commission to account but the structure is not entirely non-democratic.

You could argue that UK is not democratic in the sense that the will of the people is not sacrosanct. We vote for people where the majority form a government and lead us for the term of that government. They can make what decisions they like during that term whether or not the majority of citizens agree with them or not. Our system is one of voting for representional leadership not decision by referendum. We can throw out the party of government at election time if we don't like what they have done but, in essence, we vote to provide for a five year dictatorship each time.

That's why this referendum is so important. If we vote to stay in, this will send entirely the wrong signal to Brussels. Then regardless of our 5 yr term elections in this country, the EU will do whatever they like. Business as usual, is how they will see it.

 

[Signalcalc]

I am voting out for the simple reason that I don’t like the thought of an unelected political elite of cronies having the power to control our lives. It’s bad enough with an elected government breaking promises and lying to fund their own self-served lifestyles, never mind EU politicians doing the same. We were sold a pup with the original trade agreements and look where we are now.

It’s just so obvious in the campaigning where the worlds technocratic elite have pretty much all chipped in to try and persuade us to stay in, none of them represent the ordinary man, small businesses or the like, they are all self serving bankers/politicians/rich with no thought for anyone other than themselves.

The EU is a political basket case and an economic sinking ship, we have been thrown a lifeline, anyone that doesn’t take it risks the possibility of us never being able to solve our many homegrown social and economic problems, problems that have not been solved by 40 years of home grown technocratic rule.

How are we supposed to solve the unending problems of the EU by being a part of it is anyone’s guess, I’d rather my tax dollars were spent at home than abroad.

We can still volunteer to help out where we can, but if we stay in, our choices will be very limited for a very long time to come.

 

[barjon]

I am voting out for the simple reason that I don’t like the thought of an unelected political elite of cronies having the power to control our lives. It’s bad enough with an elected government breaking promises and lying to fund their own self-served lifestyles, never mind EU politicians doing the same. We were sold a pup with the original trade agreements and look where we are now.

It’s just so obvious in the campaigning where the worlds technocratic elite have pretty much all chipped in to try and persuade us to stay in, none of them represent the ordinary man, small businesses or the like, they are all self serving bankers/politicians/rich with no thought for anyone other than themselves.

The EU is a political basket case and an economic sinking ship, we have been thrown a lifeline, anyone that doesn’t take it risks the possibility of us never being able to solve our many homegrown social and economic problems, problems that have not been solved by 40 years of home grown technocratic rule.

How are we supposed to solve the unending problems of the EU by being a part of it is anyone’s guess, I’d rather my tax dollars were spent at home than abroad.

We can still volunteer to help out where we can, but if we stay in, our choices will be very limited for a very long time to come.

Well, that's written off almost everyone

I suppose if such a jaundiced view of things was based in fact then you'd probably have a good case.