Brexit - in or out

[Sonicscooter]

Of course its a bluff. If it wasn't a bluff, there wouldn't need to be a referendum, we'd just do it.

That doesn't make an ounce of sense.

 

[counter_violent]

Quote from the Spectator brexit debate...

" Every continent in the world over the last ten years has seen economic growth apart from Europe and Antarctica..."

Why on earth do we continually feel the need to tie ourselves to this failing economy ?

Just listen to Daniel Hannen below from about 31.17..

All the points I made in this thread were covered in this debate.

The remainians were outclassed, outgunned and above all else, could not make a positive case for staying in the EU. Instead, they continue to play the fear card and spin that position as a positive. The audience clapometer and groanometer tells us who made the better case and who failed dismally.

Although no figures were mentioned when the audience were asked to vote. The largest group were for leave. The audience were clearly engaged in the debate, on the basis that if they weren't interested, they wouldn't have been there in the first place. So we can assume this was an intelligent gathering of people.

The biggest fear for the Brexit campaign must be that the uninterested general public will only pick up on the One line headlines put out by the establishment, without delving deeper and satisfying themselves that they are being told the truth.

 

[counter_violent]

This audience member does a back of a fag packet calculation and destroys the economic case for remain.

 

[counter_violent]

Interesting debate and perspective from Austria. The demise of establishment being brought about by voters not conforming.

The same thing is happening everywhere in the west and particularly within Europe.

 

[forker]

Cameron: Brexit Will Hit You At The Checkout

Cameron: Brexit will increase your train fairs and increase your chances of contracting Ebola

Cameron: brexit will make me an all my mates unemployed.

Cameron: brexit will make winters colder..

To be continued. Proudly brought to you by project fear.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Cameron: Brexit Will lower your sperm count.

 

[counter_violent]

This refusal of people to tow the party line and continue listening to all the clap trap that comes from on high.

Lets rewind and take a look at just One of the issues that got us here.

Remember Gordon. He was the chap who tangled with the wrong woman. He wanted to ignore and dismiss her views on various matters and he paid the price, not only for himself, but in terms of damage to Labour.

The public have long memories.

Then just look at the body language when they play back the recording

How about the conversation, call me Dave probably had with Osborne after winning the last election.

Dave: Bollox George, we only went and won didn't we.
George: Sorry Dave I don't quite follow. Winning was a good thing wasn't it?
Dave: Of course not, we didn't plan for an outright win. Nick and the Libs got decimated, who are we going to blame for everything in the future. We can't blame the EU because I promised the masses a bloody referendum on that.
George: Ah, hmm, err.
Dave: That's the next problem. How are we going to sell that EU referendum pup to the unwashed? They are already on to us over the expenses scandal. Christ, the lengths we have to go to these days, all that paperwork, declarations, expenses forms to fill in etc etc , just so we can get them to pay for our second homes. It's a bloody outrage, that's what it is George.
George: ( laughs nervously), don't worry Dave, we will dream something up.

2 mins later

George: Dave, I've got it !
Dave: (sighs) Yes George, go on.
George: Well, remember we did a number on the Scots. Scared them out of their wits into staying. What was it we called it...."Better Together". Well we can do the same thing with the EU, just give it a different name.
Dave: Right that's settled then, good work George, when I'm done with this job, you can have it
George: Thanks Dave I'm already on it !

 

[barjon]

1/6 stay, 7/2 leave is the bookies verdict now.

 

[Pat494]

If we stay they will know they have us and how. More crappy laws and costs guaranteed. Merkel largely runs the EU with backing from the non elected. So more migrants. Quite where all the jobs are coming from is unknown but if you are on the bottom rung of the ladder you will have to compete with the hungry migrants and I don't fancy your chances.

 

[Atilla]

This audience member does a back of a fag packet calculation and destroys the economic case for remain.

Once again another big LIE from twisted numbers to suit an argument.

Do you ever question or think about anything that's put to you?


I did post this on post #456 from the FT but try reading key numbers again.

Mythbusting: Does the EU cost Britain £55m a day?

Many Eurosceptics rage against the UK’s annual £18bn transfer to the EU. Nigel Farage, leader of the pro-Brexit UK Independence party, has claimed that being in the bloc costs Britain £55m a day — which adds up to more than £20bn a year.

But the UK’s net transfer to the EU falls far short of such claims. A rebate secured by Margaret Thatcher in 1984 emphatically reduced the bill from the headline figure. London sent £13bn to Brussels last year. Against that, the UK received £4.5bn from the EU in regional aid and agricultural subsidies, and the private sector received a further £1.4bn direct from the EU budget.

That takes the net cost of membership to about £7bn, less than half a per cent of national income — about £260 a year for each British household.

Another often-quoted figure — the reported £33bn cost of regulation — comes from an impact assessment by Open Europe, a think-tank, of 100 EU rules. But it is based on only one side of the balance sheet.

Even though he does not like many of these regulations, Raoul Ruparel, the think-tank’s co-director, says the benefits of the regulations are “much higher” than the costs and “clearly not all of [the costs] would disappear after Brexit”.


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/202a60c0-c...#axzz49CY5FEoj

Also, remember, monies paid now was not the same as those in 1975 when UK joined. So to take current prices and project them in equal proportions to UK's EU lifetime membership is pretty naff.

But hey the numbers sounds big and suits my argument I'll have that.


Just about every point you chaps make don't stand up to scrutiny at all.

Even Paxman acknowledged not all directives and regulations apply to the UK. However, if it makes your argument sound plausible just throw it in there. People on the street aren't going to know are they?


Like I a British farmer will have to work through 12000 regulations before I can export any one of 1000s of milk based products to to Domican Republic

(As it happened on that link provided by Forker, there were only two for the Domican Republic I could find).


You guys are really taking the 9155 with your numbers.

 

[Atilla]

Cameron: Brexit Will Hit You At The Checkout
This is TRUE. Head of Tesco and Sainsbury both confirmed it. UK runs a big defecit on BoP current account. It will hurt many people that's for sure.

Cameron: Brexit will increase your train fairs and increase your chances of contracting Ebola
UK imports energy so as sterling drops fuel prices will rise.

Cameron: brexit will make me an all my mates unemployed.
Yes for sure, uncertainty and slowdown penciled in by majority of economists and international bodies. That's why market sold the pound when Boris chose to run for PM role.

Cameron: brexit will make winters colder..
Fuel prices will rise and shopping will cost more hitting household disposable income. No doubt about this.

To be continued. Proudly brought to you by project fear.
Total disregard for any decent analysis and warnings from experts all over the place is really pretty poor and borders on willful neglect of facts to mislead the public imo.

Cameron: Brexit Will lower your sperm count.
If not for EU regulation this could well do yes. Depending on the quality of your bottled water and type of plastic used for various containers including microwave suitable products, unregulated cheap plastic does effect sperm count.

Scientifically proven.

Cheap products from all over the world will be allowed in with no regulation by capitalist flag waving industrialists.

Be careful what you wish for and laugh at.

 

[Pat494]

If we stay in the EU we will have to help bail out the rotten economies of France, Italy, Greece and Spain. Better the EU either reforms or breaks up and individual countries pull finger and help themselves or else collapse.

 

[counter_violent]

Cameron: Brexit Will Hit You At The Checkout

Cameron: Brexit will increase your train fairs and increase your chances of contracting Ebola

Cameron: brexit will make me an all my mates unemployed.

Cameron: brexit will make winters colder..

To be continued. Proudly brought to you by project fear.

Another One for the list

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36353145

 

[mike.]

At least getting a kebab when you leave the pub shouldn't be to much of an issue....

Bit unfair the out campaign using scare tactic's :-0..........Ohh, wait a minute :whistling...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672563/Turkey-EU-Britain-exclusive-poll-crime-figures-Turks

 

[Atilla]

At least getting a kebab when you leave the pub shouldn't be to much of an issue....

Bit unfair the out campaign using scare tactic's :-0..........Ohh, wait a minute :whistling...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672563/Turkey-EU-Britain-exclusive-poll-crime-figures-Turks

Turkey is defo not ready for EU. Bunch of religious numbnuts running country with more journalists in prison than China. Their daft president has about 2000+ libel cases against various people who may have commented on his hitler style tash. The twit is even suing some German poet and in response Germany changing her laws. Don't know why the Germans simply don't ask him to go for a swim to cool off.


UK does want the Turks in but the French or the Germans don't. If they do get in it will be a big boost for the UK, as they do have joint interests.

UK increased diplomatic core in Turkey five fold in the last decade. That may be more related to Iraq and Syria, never the less interests are aligned and would be big boost for UK voting in EU. Their population is similar to UK, Germany and France so voting will get so much more interesting.

With respect to migrants for sure, there MUST be controls otherwise the whole place will be infested with kebab houses and we don't need or want that. We'd like to keep some of our donkeys alive and well so kids can enjoy their traditional Blackpool rides on the beach. :cheesy:

Be good to enshrine the kebab with 12000 directives and/or regulations too, so we can be sure of what we are eating


One other note Turkey is critical to EU as it is becoming an energy conduit from the Caucuses to ME with numerous pipe lines for Gas and Oil. EU's energy requirements for the next 20 years or so depend on it.

Personally, I favour the French deal of a special membership trade agreements offered to them, pretty much what the UK wants now.

However, Turks being Turks and people being people, what you can't have will always seem so much more valuable than what one does have imho.

 

[forker]

Free movement of people. All you in camp better start learning Polish, Turkish, and Serbian. You need to ensure you integrate into your new world. Might also need to consider private health care. If you don't have kids get the snip because you will likely have to house your children into their 40's before they can afford their own place.

What I really want to see is the one thing these in camp have yet to show us; that would be getting up on stage in their mankinis and jig and jive to Outcast "hey ya".

 

[forker]

http://youtu.be/PWgvGjAhvIw

 

[counter_violent]

The EU can continue to ignore all the dissenting voices but only until One of the member countries reaches the tipping point.

It's becoming increasingly clear that a number of countries are well on the way to this end.

It's only a matter of time before the doomed EU project falls apart. So even if it is not Britain who wields the death blow, someone else will.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12290-015-0348-4

 

[barjon]

The EU can continue to ignore all the dissenting voices but only until One of the member countries reaches the tipping point.

It's becoming increasingly clear that a number of countries are well on the way to this end.

It's only a matter of time before the doomed EU project falls apart. So even if it is not Britain who wields the death blow, someone else will.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12290-015-0348-4

Nah, it's a bit like security at airports. Got a life of its own now .

 

[counter_violent]

Interesting debate for both sides...

Just watched this debate. Once again the leave camp smashed it. Even those represented by France and Italy conceded that the EU has massive problems and that they would rather the UK be in and taking the lead to help sort out their mess rather than simply letting them get on with it. The Europeans are petrified that we might walk away and yet they are paralysed by their own institutions and their failure to be able to achieve anything.

I think these foreign representatives should go put the case to the EU officials before it's too late. (actually, it is too late, way too late). Once again, it's not just British dissenting voices, but voices all across the project. They know the EU needs fundamental reform, but are not prepared to do anything about it.

The CBI representative seemed utterly clueless and kept trotting out the line "our members are telling us" xyz, as if the only opinions worth listening to were those of big business and crony capitalism.

99.9 per cent of private sector businesses are SMEs, employing an estimated 14.4 million people, 59.3 per cent of private sector employment. Their estimated combined annual turnover of £1,600 billion accounted for 48.1 per cent of private sector turnover.

NONE of the above businesses are represented by the CBI.
Yet they are rolled out by gov't and made out as if they represent the interests of ALL business.
Nothing could be further from the truth. The CBI is the representative of v large corporations.