Brexit - in or out

[timsk]

Game Over for Brexit - Celebrities Swing it

I hate to bring down the tone of this intellectual debate but, as of today, I'm afraid to say it's pretty much game over for the Brexit campaign.

The great unwashed - and largely undecided British public - may not care two hoots what politicians, economists and journalists think about the pros and cons of the EU, but they are easily swayed and heavily influenced by celebrities. Millions of women in love with Benedict Cumberbatch will vote the same way as him. I don't get the attraction to him myself, but that matters not, as the gorgeous Keira Knightly and Dame Kristen Scott-Thomas agree with him. So, it's a no brainer for me. If they think we should stay in then, along with everyone else, I'll vote to remain!

Scores of UK stars back remaining in EU
Tim.

 

[forker]

anyone who takes a celebs opinions on political matters seriously should be immediately deported to America (along with the scum politicians who asked them to do it)

there are too many people in this age that take celeb words far more seriously than fact. I hope all the Turks move next door and onto the streets of the celebs homes. May there be kebab shops lining their streets

 

[Sonicscooter]

"The great unwashed"............You mean the Zombie nation....

 

[forker]

we should start a petition to have Cameron sacked because he deliberately lied to everyone in parlaiment

 

[forker]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36335122

 

[Atilla]

Well without diving into all areas how about the 12000+ applied to milk

I think this is creative accounting by the Brexit camp in line with all their other nonsense which does not stand up scrutiny.

I would like to know where I can get this list.

How it was obtained.

Who's claiming it as it circulates.

Can you provide source please other than the movie.


I am trying to google it my self and can't find anything closely resembling 12000

http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/mil...tions-designations-reserved-milk-terms_en.pdf


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32010R0605


You see some of those rules are duplicated subject to which country the product originates from.

So if you wish to take 185+ countries in the world and apply regulations for each country which comes to about 120 or so and then claim there are 12000 that's not quite accurate is it? See second link.


So please let's do the decent thing and verify what the Brexiters are telling us.



NOTE: Does anybody remember the Chinese baby milk scandal??? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...on-milk-kills-children-leaves-6-000-sick.html


Beware, what you are saying and voting for here? :idea:

 

[counter_violent]

Let's do a roll call...

Let's do a demolition job...

1. US, Chinese and Indian premiers state publicly they prefer us to be in the EU and not to leave. This is the top level.

Are we supposed to be impressed by this list of "top level" manipulators, drafted in by dodgy Dave&Co to maintain the myth that government knows best and we should all do as we are told. I can think of tons of things where each of those leaders would be better employed sorting out their own messes. US, guns. China, human rights. India, equality. We don't believe our own government's propaganda, let alone anyone else's !


2. Good many business leaders as well as City of London institutions state publicly they prefer to be in the EU

Well they would say that wouldn't they. They spend all their time lobbying the powers that be to get what they want in terms of the system and what they can get out of the system. This is not democracy at work. Vested interests.


3. Key politicians currently in and as well as likes of established ones like Heseltine, Clarke and Sir Geoffrey Howe, state it is in the countries best interest to stay in the EU

Cameron offered the people a referendum on EU membership. Cameron, much to his surprise and without his previous Lib baggage, got voted in with a small majority. Why don't you now join the dots and come to the right conclusion, he got voted in because he was offering what the people wanted, which was their voices heard on the EU issue. What they didn't vote for was some naff re-negotiation deal sexed up as something worth voting in for. He got nothing. He is selling you a pup. Emperors new clothes.

4. Opposition parties Labour and Liberal state our interests lie in the EU

More of the same vested interest group, the only difference being, none of them has any power or responsibility. Just like the Tories, they are split between in and out camps.
Point of order...who are the Libs?
The SNP have far more representation as an opposition party.


5. Scientists say the same



6. Global celebrities and actors say the same



7. Building industry professionals state the same



8. BoE advises of potential risks of leaving

Operating outside their remit....already covered this one.


9. Good number of professional bodies such as IMF & BoE and UK Chamber of Commerce - the majority would like to stay in

Vested interests in maintaining their power bases and operating outside their remit.


Then on the other hand we have;

1. Wannabee politicians like Boris (not fit for PM) running effectively for PM role doing a U-Turn on his past beliefs.

2. Some one-trick pony opposition leader, leading the charge

3. Some businesses who may have more to gain from leaving the EU.

4. I heard this morning few housewives questioned who simply said we don't want to be in the EU. Period. No arguments she simply doesn't want it.



For what ever argument is put forward we have;

Those in favour are fear mongering doom sayers.
We are British.
We will cut regulation and we can make more and better trade deals else where
Once we leave EU everything will be the same for another 2 years and so much better soon after...


Waddaya guys fink of this summari den????

I think you should pen a letter to you're former teachers and Professors apologising for having wasted their time.

Either way chaps, wishing you all the best

EU is failing. The evidence is out there. Some of us have the capacity / foresight to see this.
Don't be a lemming and follow them into the abyss.

 

[forker]

I think this is creative accounting by the Brexit camp in line with all their other nonsense which does not stand up scrutiny.

I would like to know where I can get this list.

How it was obtained.

Who's claiming it as it circulates.

Can you provide source please other than the movie.

In the time they had they couldn't possibly get it with 100% accuracy. That being said here is what i get when i search for milk. Good luck to anyone who is able to get the exact number but hell if i am going to trawl through everything related to it.I noted in the movie they mentions over 12k legislations well that's the number listed under legislation in the subsection

 

[counter_violent]

I hate to bring down the tone of this intellectual debate but, as of today, I'm afraid to say it's pretty much game over for the Brexit campaign.

The great unwashed - and largely undecided British public - may not care two hoots what politicians, economists and journalists think about the pros and cons of the EU, but they are easily swayed and heavily influenced by celebrities. Millions of women in love with Benedict Cumberbatch will vote the same way as him. I don't get the attraction to him myself, but that matters not, as the gorgeous Keira Knightly and Dame Kristen Scott-Thomas agree with him. So, it's a no brainer for me. If they think we should stay in then, along with everyone else, I'll vote to remain!

Scores of UK stars back remaining in EU
Tim.

Is this you on HYS

842. Posted by Tim
on
Just now

"I'd like to thank God, my parents, my agent, my wonderful co-stars, and the European Union". As no actor EVER said at ANY awards ceremony.

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[forker]

Legislation titles with specific reference to milk.

when i change the filter to law i get a 8020 documents. So between legislation and law its an ocean of red tape

 

[tomorton]

As I've said before, the risks of a poorly judged/timed Exit are catastrophic compared with the risks of a poorly judged/timed Remain, so the UK has to Remain.

We've got to stop thinking this Referendum is about citizens deciding government policy. Its about consolidation of power in the Conservative party and the prevention of power slipping from them towards UKIP.

Even if the vote is a majority for Exit, this is not legally binding and its impossible to see the Cameron government simply passing the necessary legislation to put the referendum vote into action.

 

[Atilla]

EU is failing. The evidence is out there. Some of us have the capacity / foresight to see this.
Don't be a lemming and follow them into the abyss.

1. Well you guys keep trumpeting doing new deals at every opportunity. One might think these biggest markets of all, US, China and India would be jumping out of bed at the opportunity to trade with one of top 10 countries in the economic league right?

Your freaking arguments has no credibility.

2. Vested business interests are part of the democratic system. Why would the Japanese factories stay in the UK if EU stipulates some % of cars imported into EU get processed in an EU member state?

You want these people to keep quiet about all the potential loss of jobs?
Why?

3. Well why would you listen to Farage with one seat for the UKIP and none of the others. What does that tell you about the British population?

4. Same again.

5. Disregard, scientists, actors and building professionals too. Why?

6. Our esteemed and reputable B o E too?



So we should forget all that and simply follow the likes of you, Boris and IDS?



That's good. Real good!

 

[Splitlink]

I hate to bring down the tone of this intellectual debate but, as of today, I'm afraid to say it's pretty much game over for the Brexit campaign.

The great unwashed - and largely undecided British public - may not care two hoots what politicians, economists and journalists think about the pros and cons of the EU, but they are easily swayed and heavily influenced by celebrities. Millions of women in love with Benedict Cumberbatch will vote the same way as him. I don't get the attraction to him myself, but that matters not, as the gorgeous Keira Knightly and Dame Kristen Scott-Thomas agree with him. So, it's a no brainer for me. If they think we should stay in then, along with everyone else, I'll vote to remain!

Scores of UK stars back remaining in EU
Tim.

You are right, Tim,but these people always seem to have somewhere else to go if they don't like it. It is the same with the young folk. They will vote, next time, with their feet. It is what I did, when I was 32. It's a question of survival---just like the ones that are coming in to Europe to-day.

To this day, I remember the words of a British tourist in Sitges about the UK, in the sixties. "It could be a great country---it's such a shame".

We could say the same about Europe, today. -we could be a great block of united nations--it's such a shame. But we are all humans and very selfish--not just the Brits, but all of us want our own thing.

 

[counter_violent]

As I've said before, the risks of a poorly judged/timed Exit are catastrophic compared with the risks of a poorly judged/timed Remain, so the UK has to Remain.

We've got to stop thinking this Referendum is about citizens deciding government policy. Its about consolidation of power in the Conservative party and the prevention of power slipping from them towards UKIP.

Even if the vote is a majority for Exit, this is not legally binding and its impossible to see the Cameron government simply passing the necessary legislation to put the referendum vote into action.

The people have to take back control. This is democracy. Governments are elected to carry out the wishes of the people. If they do not, then we can vote them out.

The EU is a non elected body of bureaucrats who cannot be voted out. This is not a democracy.

The vast majority of UKIP are disenfranchised Tories. They didn't spring up overnight, they have a long history and it's worth reminding everyone that they have the highest number of elected MEP's in the EU parliament from the UK. They are the only reason we are having this referendum.

 

[forker]

As I've said before, the risks of a poorly judged/timed Exit are catastrophic compared with the risks of a poorly judged/timed Remain, so the UK has to Remain.

We've got to stop thinking this Referendum is about citizens deciding government policy. Its about consolidation of power in the Conservative party and the prevention of power slipping from them towards UKIP.

Even if the vote is a majority for Exit, this is not legally binding and its impossible to see the Cameron government simply passing the necessary legislation to put the referendum vote into action.

that may be the case but it would be political suicide and i doubt any mp would want to partake in that.

 

[Atilla]

Legislation titles with specific reference to milk.

when i change the filter to law i get a 8020 documents. So between legislation and law its an ocean of red tape

You do realise you supposed to search through those documents and identify one relating to your subject of interest right?

Like if you are not exporting to US or Dominic Republic it doesn't apply to you.



If you didn't have that you'll have the same from British regulation. There are UK Export and Import licence controls. Believe me they are just as mind boggling as any other piece of regulation. At least when you are exporting to EU you don't have to go thourh



Let's just pick one for analysis so we know what you guys are barking about.

This one below is as a consequence of Russia throwing a strop re: Ukraine.

Seems perfectly reasonable to take a common stand, don't you?

Anyone in the industry should need to know you won't be able to sell your milk to Russia or China based on falling demand. This is clearly a good service provided to the industry.


THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION,
Having regard to the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union,
Having regard to Regulation (EU) No 1308/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 17 December 2013 establishing a common organisation of the markets in agricultural products and repealing Council Regulations (EEC) No 922/72, (EEC) No 234/79, (EC) No 1037/2001 and (EC) No 1234/2007 (1), and in particular Article 219(1) in conjunction with Article 228 thereof,
Whereas:
(1)
The milk and milk products sector is experiencing a prolonged period of severe market imbalance. Farm gate milk prices have been under pressure for the last 18 months due to imbalance between increased production and decelerating demand growth on the world market.
(2)
Despite the effectiveness of the measures already taken by the Commission, the situation continues deteriorating due to the fact that the closure of the Russian market and lower demand from China have hit the milk and milk products sector at a time where investments in production had been made in view of milk quota expiry on 31 March 2015 and positive prospects on the world market. On the basis of the available market analysis, any significant decrease in production volumes is not to be expected in the next two years.
(3)
Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2016/559 (2) authorises recognised producer organisations, their associations and recognised interbranch organisations in the milk and milk products sector to conclude voluntary joint agreements and take common decisions on the planning of milk production on a temporary basis for a period of six months. Given that the milk and milk products sector is predominantly characterised by cooperative structures, it is appropriate to extend that authorisation, including the related notification obligations to those entities established by milk producers. The same goes for other forms of producer organisations that have been established by milk producers in compliance with national law and are active in the milk and milk products sector, in view of maximising the measure's coverage.
(4)
In order to ensure the effectiveness of this Regulation, it should apply as soon as possible in parallel with Implementing Regulation (EU) 2016/559. Therefore, this Regulation should enter into force on the day following that of its publication,
HAS ADOPTED THIS REGULATION:
Article 1

Without prejudice to the provisions of Article 209(1) of Regulation (EU) No 1308/2013, Implementing Regulation (EU) 2016/559 shall apply mutatis mutandis to cooperatives and other forms of producer organisations that have been established by milk producers in compliance with national law and are active in the milk and milk products sector.
Article 2

This Regulation shall enter into force on the day following that of its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.
This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.
Done at Brussels, 11 April 2016.
For the Commission
The President
Jean-Claude JUNCKER

 

[counter_violent]

1. Well you guys keep trumpeting doing new deals at every opportunity. One might think these biggest markets of all, US, China and India would be jumping out of bed at the opportunity to trade with one of top 10 countries in the economic league right?

Your freaking arguments has no credibility.

2. Vested business interests are part of the democratic system. Why would the Japanese factories stay in the UK if EU stipulates some % of cars imported into EU get processed in an EU member state?

You want these people to keep quiet about all the potential loss of jobs?
Why?

3. Well why would you listen to Farage with one seat for the UKIP and none of the others. What does that tell you about the British population?

4. Same again.

5. Disregard, scientists, actors and building professionals too. Why?

6. Our esteemed and reputable B o E too?



So we should forget all that and simply follow the likes of you, Boris and IDS?



That's good. Real good!

We don't have to do ANY deals with anyone.

WTO rules are the default position for ALL countries, unless countries decide to negotiate separate trade deals.

It is the "remain" side that are peddling the myth that we have to have trade deals.

Have you penned that apology letter to you're former professors yet?

 

[Splitlink]

The people have to take back control. This is democracy. Governments are elected to carry out the wishes of the people. If they do not, then we can vote them out.

Eek! I've heard that before. Sounds a bit bolshie, to me!

We have a party here that says the same. Pablo Iglesias, the leader of Podemos, I would not trust as far as I could kick him. A nice set of gleaming choppers, shirtsleeves and a pony tail. His second in charge turned up in Parliament with her baby on her lap. When she got up to talk. she handed the baby to Iglesias who bounced on his knee and clucked at it.

This party, Podemos, has to be taken very seriously, it got a lot of seats in December, so be prepared for a bit of democracy, Spanish style, in June, after the next elections.

 

[swissy]

As I've said before, the risks of a poorly judged/timed Exit are catastrophic compared with the risks of a poorly judged/timed Remain, so the UK has to Remain.

We've got to stop thinking this Referendum is about citizens deciding government policy. Its about consolidation of power in the Conservative party and the prevention of power slipping from them towards UKIP.

Even if the vote is a majority for Exit, this is not legally binding and its impossible to see the Cameron government simply passing the necessary legislation to put the referendum vote into action.

Your bang on - a Brexit vote (which will be narrow anyway) will involve the govt going back to EU, getting an "improved" renegotiation, addressing some of the central issues, back to the electorate blah blah blah..... plus ca change.... its what slimy politicians are good at!

 

[counter_violent]

Eek! I've heard that before. Sounds a bit bolshie, to me!

We have a party here that says the same. Pablo Iglesias, the leader of Podemos, I would not trust as far as I could kick him. A nice set of gleaming choppers, shirtsleeves and a pony tail. His second in charge turned up in Parliament with her baby on her lap. When she got up to talk. she handed the baby to Iglesias who bounced on his knee and clucked at it.

This party, Podemos, has to be taken very seriously, it got a lot of seats in December, so be prepared for a bit of democracy, Spanish style, in June, after the next elections.

Of course, UKIP are not alone in their assessment of the EU. Every country has it's representatives who are questioning the legitimacy of the unaccountable EU government and it's policies.

Even if the remain camp manage to hoodwink the UK voting public , the voices will still be there in all member countries.