Brexit - in or out

[Sonicscooter]

You are not going to win against this lot, mate. They are dedicated Faragists and Johnsonites. Only Referendum Day will prove to them the basic common sense of the majority of British people. :clap:

Unfortunately, there isn't much common sense in the British population, most are sheeple.....

 

[counter_violent]

Where has Carney advised anyone how to vote? All he has done is to say how exit would impact on his monetary policy framework objectives. Since he is charged with delivering price stability and support for the Government's economic growth and employment objectives that is eminently reasonable.

No, it's entirely unreasonable. His remit is to work with what he's given.
If the British public votes to leave, then he will need to adjust policy if required. That is all.

 

[barjon]

No, it's entirely unreasonable. His remit is to work with what he's given.
If the British public votes to leave, then he will need to adjust policy if required. That is all.

Yeah, so he was quite properly explaining what would require adjustment. You can't muzzle him because you don't' like what he says.

 

[Atilla]

No, it's entirely unreasonable. His remit is to work with what he's given.
If the British public votes to leave, then he will need to adjust policy if required. That is all.

BoE is INDEPENDENT thanks to Gordon Brown.

Do you know what independent means?


Acting independently as it best serves the nation.

 

[counter_violent]

BoE is INDEPENDENT thanks to Gordon Brown.

Do you know what independent means?


Acting independently as it best serves the nation.

Ah, the saviour of the world economy. The guy who brought us an end to boom and bust. I think I remember him.

Independent, yes, that's what we will be after the referendum

 

[Pat494]

Unfortunately, there isn't much common sense in the British population, most are sheeple.....

To have a proper democracy WE have to go with the majority decision however daft. Long live democracy however incompetent !

In the USA they would be throwing mega bribes to PR plonkers to get the decision they want. Less so here.

 

[forker]

Nobody said leaving won't have an immediate impact. People are focusing on the short term and ignoring the long term.

 

[counter_violent]

Still waiting for answers on why the unemployment rate is so high across Europe if it is such a great place to do business.

Interesting to note that Switzerland, who steadfastly refused to join the EU comes out best. In fact, all the countries with looser associations to the EU fare much better than full members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_unemployment_rate

 

[Atilla]

Still waiting for answers on why the unemployment rate is so high across Europe if it is such a great place to do business.

Interesting to note that Switzerland, who steadfastly refused to join the EU comes out best. In fact, all the countries with looser associations to the EU fare much better than full members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_unemployment_rate

That's easy...

You are throwing the laggards and immature non tax paying corrupt nations with the best like the Germans and the Dutch.


If you want to compete with the best you should pick your targets better.

You talking about Greece, Italy, Spain ie the PIGS.

If you want to improve you compete with the best.

Raise your standard and your game mate. Set your sites on the Germans not the laggards.


Be the best you can be. If it's there you reach for it and you try and take it. You don't walk away with your tail between your legs barking independence and crying rejection. You don't want to be best among the PIGS you should want to be the best of the best.

Don't rest on your laurels either claiming that title about being better than the PIGS. We all know where that led us.

 

[counter_violent]

That's easy...

You are throwing the laggards and immature non tax paying corrupt nations with the best like the Germans and the Dutch.


If you want to compete with the best you should pick your targets better.

You talking about Greece, Italy, Spain ie the PIGS.

If you want to improve you compete with the best.

I've just pointed out that "the best" do not reside inside the EU as full members, ie Switzerland, Norway and so on.

Raise your standard and your game mate. Set your sites on the Germans not the laggards.


Be the best you can be. If it's there you reach for it and you try and take it. You don't walk away with your tail between your legs barking independence and crying rejection. You don't want to be best among the PIGS you should want to be the best of the best.

Don't rest on your laurels either claiming that title about being better than the PIGS. We all know where that led us.

They are all members of the same sh1t club.

Now, why don't you explain to the readers why we would want to be involved in this?

http://themacrotourist.com/macro/european-basket-case

 

[Pat494]

If we leave does that mean the 2.2 million EU workers will have to leave the UK ?

 

[counter_violent]

If we leave does that mean the 2.2 million EU workers will have to leave the UK ?

As I understand it, nothing will happen quickly. There will be a minimum of a 2 yr consultation period between the EU and Britain where things like arrangements for workers will be sorted out. Probably some kind of work permit / visa system. As long as governments can make a few quid out of it, they will be up for it

 

[barjon]

If we leave does that mean the 2.2 million EU workers will have to leave the UK ?

I hope not, the NHS would collapse overnight and I'm making plenty of use of it atm

 

[Atilla]

They are all members of the same sh1t club.

Now, why don't you explain to the readers why we would want to be involved in this?

http://themacrotourist.com/macro/european-basket-case

No not at all. You go back and look at your charts and statistics on unemployment.

There is no reason why UK unemployment should be 45% as it it in Spain.


Tell us what Germany's unemployment level is at who you refer to as a **** club.


Same applies to debt and strength of financial institutions. Don't be a sheep and be led. Challenge assertions that are made to you. Question them. Try and udnerstand the factors the lie below those numbers.

Then you may be able to lead to some real value based conclusions.

Donald Trump may well promise he can make US great again along with Nigel Farage but how. Words are cheap. How, what and when do they propose to do deliver on these promises.


Regulations and new markets don't wash. Bureaucracy is a toss up between EU parliament and our bent politicians and Lords which cost just as much. You'll be transferring costs from a big club to a smaller club for what gain?

Sovereignty they say.

I'd bet half if not more (as a friend of mine has) met a Russian chick (absolutely drop dead gorgeous), got married despite being a player and a top guy, then emigrated to Australia.

Any one of you given the right job, right money or the right reason wouldn't think twice about living under UK sovereignty as trumping any of your other meaningful life decisions.

I'd strongly recommend you think about these hollow words they are feeding you.

I appreciate there are many lion hearts here. I feel the same passionately.

Think and challenge the arguments. Goes for all of us. Me included.


All the best mate, for Queen, country, you and me

 

[counter_violent]

No not at all. You go back and look at your charts and statistics on unemployment.

There is no reason why UK unemployment should be 45% as it it in Spain.


Tell us what Germany's unemployment level is at who you refer to as a **** club.


Same applies to debt and strength of financial institutions. Don't be a sheep and be led. Challenge assertions that are made to you. Question them. Try and udnerstand the factors the lie below those numbers.

Then you may be able to lead to some real value based conclusions.

Donald Trump may well promise he can make US great again along with Nigel Farage but how. Words are cheap. How, what and when do they propose to do deliver on these promises.


Regulations and new markets don't wash. Bureaucracy is a toss up between EU parliament and our bent politicians and Lords which cost just as much. You'll be transferring costs from a big club to a smaller club for what gain?

Sovereignty they say.

I'd bet half if not more (as a friend of mine has) met a Russian chick (absolutely drop dead gorgeous), got married despite being a player and a top guy, then emigrated to Australia.

Any one of you given the right job, right money or the right reason wouldn't think twice about living under UK sovereignty as trumping any of your other meaningful life decisions.

I'd strongly recommend you think about these hollow words they are feeding you.

I appreciate there are many lion hearts here. I feel the same passionately.

Think and challenge the arguments. Goes for all of us. Me included.


All the best mate, for Queen, country, you and me

I have been challenging your assertions

German unemployment figure is marginally less than ours. I said yesterday that only 2 countries were doing ok in the EU. Germany as a full member and because of the currency advantages that brings being part of a sh1t club overall. Even Barjon agrees why Germany is succeeding and the UK, as a non full member. The rest have / are all going backwards.

The comparison was between countries inside Europe who want no part of membership like Switzerland (unemployment rate 3.1%) (employment rate 72%)
Ours in broad terms is like Switzerland , Norway etc.

You and the others simply cannot make a positive case for being inside EU. Instead, you are all relying on trotting out doom mongers like Carney, Legarde, and various vested interest politicians with a scattering of no nothing celebs to appeal to the uneducable.

 

[Atilla]

I have been challenging your assertions

German unemployment figure is marginally less than ours. I said yesterday that only 2 countries were doing ok in the EU. Germany as a full member and because of the currency advantages that brings being part of a sh1t club overall. Even Barjon agrees why Germany is succeeding and the UK, as a non full member. The rest have / are all going backwards.

The comparison was between countries inside Europe who want no part of membership like Switzerland (unemployment rate 3.1%) (employment rate 72%)
Ours in broad terms is like Switzerland , Norway etc.

You and the others simply cannot make a positive case for being inside EU. Instead, you are all relying on trotting out doom mongers like Carney, Legarde, and various vested interest politicians with a scattering of no nothing celebs to appeal to the uneducable.

I've done nothing but make economic arguments.

Show the bigger picture.


Words fail me which is most unusual but one tries one's best. As always :cheesy:

 

[barjon]

I have been challenging your assertions

German unemployment figure is marginally less than ours. I said yesterday that only 2 countries were doing ok in the EU. Germany as a full member and because of the currency advantages that brings being part of a sh1t club overall. Even Barjon agrees why Germany is succeeding and the UK, as a non full member. The rest have / are all going backwards.

The comparison was between countries inside Europe who want no part of membership like Switzerland (unemployment rate 3.1%) (employment rate 72%)
Ours in broad terms is like Switzerland , Norway etc.

You and the others simply cannot make a positive case for being inside EU. Instead, you are all relying on trotting out doom mongers like Carney, Legarde, and various vested interest politicians with a scattering of no nothing celebs to appeal to the uneducable.

It's not up to us for making a case for being in - we are in and enjoying the benefits as well as being irritated by some of the things that go on. It's you who want the change and you must, therefore, be the ones to make the positive case for taking such a leap. So far all I've heard is a lot of wishful thinking and wholesale knocking of everything European.

 

[Inquisitor]

The comments here are interesting on both sides but at the end of the day my decision will be based on what has happened and what I am seeing for my family, friends and myself and so this is what has happened so far.

1) I have seen an ongoing number of vastly rich people telling me that I should stay in the EU
2) I have seen my costs continuously rise and all my friends pay remain static over the last 10 years
3) A large number of people I know have lost their jobs over the last 20 years
4) My pension has been continuously depleted by more and more taxes
5) My children are unable to get on the housing ladder and so when the head of the IMF says house prices will collapse then it is a good reason to leave.
6) My ability to see my GP and get quick treatment on the NHS has disappeared over the last 20 years
7) I have seen in the last 10 years more rights removed by the EU than added and this is all a precursor the implementing the TTIP and making the EU a place for the rich to get ever more rich and a place where all that matters is big business.

None of the above is positive and could not have been worse outside the EU and yet I have been told by the rich people that I am better off (which is a joke) and it is better for me to hand over democratic control of my country to unelected people in a foreign country who are not accountable to anyone.

The idea that I am better off economically in the EU is utter nonsense for the reasons listed above. The reality is that the EU is Germany and in the event that the German economy falters the whole of the EU will be in a disastrous situation. If we stay in we will be expected to bail out the others at staggering costs to all of us and where will the faltering nations head to when it all happens? Here of course just as the Turks are planning on doing when their visa free travel comes in which again is a German way of getting them into the EU through the back door even though "technically" they are still at war with Greece over Cyprus.

As things stand, the UK would have to build a new house every 7 minutes to cater for the existing population and is something the government has admitted defeat on being able to action. If we get even more people arriving here it will ramp house prices and rents up even more which is the exact opposite of what I want for my children and their whole generation.

When idiots like Major, Blair, Cameron start lecturing me with ludicrous threats of what will happen if we leave it further increases my resolve to get out and is also doing the same to most of my associates. I don’t hear every day people who are not rich trying in desperation to threaten me with why I have to vote to stay in.

I don’t doubt that there will be uncertainty if we leave but so what that is not a reason to stay. What is certain is that staying in will see changes of biblical proportions to our sovereign nation that we have no ability to control. The UK has been a pioneer in almost every area of its involvement with the world and will continue to do so outside the EU. We have the most innovative nation to address world issues and will continue to so do. It is almost insulting to presume that we are not capable of doing this outside the EU and the same economists who said we cannot survive by keeping the GBP are the same ones saying we cannot survive outside the EU. They were wrong then and it is well known that economists and so called experts are more often wrong than right. This is why we should take no notice of any of them as they just don’t know what will happen but I have faith that the UK are capable of addressing most issues even when told by others that we face disaster. We did it twice during the last two wars and we can continue to do it again.

Some of the views that Scotland will go for independence again if we leave are seriously flawed. The Scots would have to reapply to join the EU if they leave the UK and have to show fiscal responsibility over an extended timeframe to be allowed in. So far they have been totally incapable of doing this and that is with the fortune they already get from the rest of the UK. If that is gone they have no chance at all of meeting this (since the Greece crisis) now crucial requirement. If they were admitted they would be in the same position as Latvia with no influence to do anything.

The message is simple, ignore the rich doomsayers and don’t underestimate the extraordinary ability of the British to take on and handle pretty much anything that comes our way.

 

[Pat494]

If the referendum is for IN shall we ever have another chance to escape the clutches of France/Germany ? Probably not for 50 years anyhow.

I expect the Europeans are probably tired of seeing us dithering on the wings. Perhaps if any are looking in they could give their views ?

I can't see it will make much difference to pensioners. Still peanuts. I have to say I do like having some control over my affairs and not having it given to some unknown foreign Johnny, well I mean, some are barely civilised

 

[counter_violent]

It's not up to us for making a case for being in - we are in and enjoying the benefits as well as being irritated by some of the things that go on. It's you who want the change and you must, therefore, be the ones to make the positive case for taking such a leap. So far all I've heard is a lot of wishful thinking and wholesale knocking of everything European.

There is no case for being in.

The fact that Cameron told the EU that we were having no part in the bailouts of their failed banks and economies.
Here we are now and Cameron is telling us, it could be worse outside the EU. Well which is it Dave, cos it can't be both !


The fact that Osborne not 2 yrs ago told us that the EU demand for an extra payment of 1.7B (because the UK economy was doing so well) was not going to happen.
Here we are now and Osborne is telling us, it could be worse outside the EU.
which is it George, cos it can't be both !


George Osborne
✔ ‎‎@George_Osborne

As PM said EU bill unacceptable. Now we've halved the bill, delayed the bill & pay no interest on the bill. Result for Britain

1:41 PM - 7 Nov 2014
225 225 Retweets
89 89 likes

Lets just touch on the fact that the EU has had no accounts signed off for over 2 decades.

But isn't the EU bad at managing its own finances?

Oh yes. It's not just individuals who overspend on their credit cards. The EU was accused earlier this month of “breathtaking hypocrisy” in demanding the extra payment from Westminster despite failing its own audit.

The European Court of Auditors found that £109bn out of a total of £117bn spent by the EU in 2013 was "affected by material error”.

It means that the accounts submitted by Brussels have not been given the all clear for almost two decades.