Brexit - in or out

[Atilla]

If you do leave, it will not be your problem. This what I do not quite understand about Brexit arguments. Did you listen to Teresa May today? It was a damning indictment on the UK police force. Why don't you get to work and do something about that? And the NHS. And the flooding problems. How many illegal immigrants have been killed by police brutality in Europe? How many died at Hillsbury? How many girls were introduced to prostitution at Rotherham and other cities.?

Nothing is perfect. The EU needs a hell of a lot doing to it. But the Brits live in a glasshouse. They should not throw so many stones.

They are few in number Split, wouldn't worry too much about them. They are like Boris desperately trying to to rally the troops but I believe UK population well educated and traveled enough being a pioneering global nation to know the arguments.

CV and Boris have a lot of anti-G in them. Shocked and stunned I am.

I was expecting more from UKIP but they really haven't been doing too well in the elections at all. Must try harder to BS with half baked truths and one trick ponies. Mrs voted for them 'once'. She's clever cookie and noticed soon enough. Once was more than enough.

 

[Atilla]

I must have missed the bit where you defended high EU unemployment which is obviously a sign of great economic strength

What's that got to do with the UK?

More cheap labour imo.

I would set my targets on Germany. To emulate and beat them in their own game.


Let the laggers sort out their own mess. We should focus on our own game as highlighted. We can do better. No resting on laurels. Onwards and forwards.

 

[counter_violent]

If you do leave, it will not be your problem. This what I do not quite understand about Brexit arguments. Did you listen to Teresa May today? It was a damning indictment on the UK police force. Why don't you get to work and do something about that? And the NHS. And the flooding problems. How many illegal immigrants have been killed by police brutality in Europe? How many died at Hillsbury? How many girls were introduced to prostitution at Rotherham and other cities.?

Interesting examples and we are doing something about it.

Hillsborough...you can expect to see high level prosecutions of senior officers. (long overdue)

Rotherham... a culture grown up where you are not allowed to speak the truth in case you might offend someone (race relations)

Immigrants in Europe.... didn't the EU just get an agreement with Turkey and get them to do the dirty work on controlling migrant flows on the promise of visaless movement of Turks across wider Europe. (great, just what we need. giving 75 mill others access to the free for all ! )



Nothing is perfect. The EU needs a hell of a lot doing to it. But the Brits live in a glasshouse. They should not throw so many stones.

Split, as I understand it, you still work and probably draw some kind of pension.
Is there a reason why the youth of Spain should not have jobs and be paying towards the upkeep of it's more elderly citizens ?

 

[counter_violent]

What's that got to do with the UK?

More cheap labour imo.

I would set my targets on Germany. To emulate and beat them in their own game.


Let the laggers sort out their own mess. We should focus on our own game as highlighted. We can do better. No resting on laurels. Onwards and forwards.

If you bothered to look at the Unemployment charts posted, you will see that Germany and the UK, ARE the Two countries doing ok. The rest are a bunch of slackers (your words not mine)

The cheap labour you cite is exactly the reason why the UK has had enough. All that cheap labour does is breed discontent amongst the established citizens in any country.
Eventually, the citizens of the Eu member countries will wake up to this fact

 

[Pat494]

I can see us leaving and the EU embracing Turkey. This would extend their fragile borders all the way into the Middle East mess of Syria and Iraq. In fact Isis territory. Good luck with that.

 

[Splitlink]

Split, as I understand it, you still work and probably draw some kind of pension.
Is there a reason why the youth of Spain should not have jobs and be paying towards the upkeep of it's more elderly citizens ?

We have a family business. I am retired but, still,go to the place to keep my daughter company, mainly. I draw no more money from that, now. I am not prepared to pay anyone to do the little that I do, I can assure you.

Unemployment is very high in Spain but it will not be any worse if the UK leaves, neither does it seem to have reduced as a result of UK membership.

Spains problem is the result of bad governmental policy due to Rajoy trying to reduce the deficit at the expense of jobs. That is why there is so much discontent here. Ask anyone if they want Spain out of Europe. No way, Jose. But they do want Rajoy out of government. That is why there is so much political turmoil here, at the moment.

I have no objection to the UK wanting to leave Europe, as I have none in Catalunas wanting independence, but it has nothing to do with EU. You do not like EU, end of story.
But, for Heavens sake, dont tell us that we are going to break up because you are leaving. That is sheer arrogance.

Please excuse my lack of comas, accents, etc. I am using an English keyboard.

 

[mb325]

When the EU falls apart it will be in spite of the UK, not because of it.

Fixed

 

[counter_violent]

I can see us leaving and the EU embracing Turkey. This would extend their fragile borders all the way into the Middle East mess of Syria and Iraq. In fact Isis territory. Good luck with that.

Not only is the EU policy continual "expansion expansion expansion" but it is done with complete disregard as to who it may upset, like the Ukraine and Russia, which they clearly learned nothing from. They are quite happy now encroaching on the Turks and Arab world. Where next? North Africa perhaps !

The whole project is a joke !

 

[Pat494]

Not only is the EU policy continual "expansion expansion expansion" but it is done with complete disregard as to who it may upset, like the Ukraine and Russia, which they clearly learned nothing from. They are quite happy now encroaching on the Turks and Arab world. Where next? North Africa perhaps !

The whole project is a joke !

Over expansion has been the death of nearly all the Empires of history.

 

[counter_violent]

That is nothing new . It has always been like that since the before the Romans .
Who are you considering as replacements?

These institutions don't need to be replaced, they are what they are and should stick to their remit. The point is, they have no business meddling in matters that do not concern them. They should not be offering an opinion.

You will, certainly, lose Scotland, who are clearly pro EU., so don't tell us about EU falling apart, please. The whole point of leaving the EU is that it should benefit the UK. Most of the Brexit arguments seem to be baseless taunts, of no real point, at all, except to distract the British people from the serious matters that will befront them after leaving.

Unfortunately the Scots are being lead down the garden path by the inept SNP. Fortunately for the Scots, they voted to remain part of the UK, otherwise they may well have been off to see the IMF at this juncture, with the begging bowl.

Do you "Brexits" really believe that you hold all the cards? It begs the question, "Why did you join in the first place?"

Good question. Some of us have no idea why we joined in the first place as the structure was flawed from the outset. Eu problems are not a new thing, but they simply refuse to reform. So why should we stick around and become the lemmings?

 

[barjon]

Good question. Some of us have no idea why we joined in the first place as the structure was flawed from the outset. Eu problems are not a new thing, but they simply refuse to reform. So why should we stick around and become the lemmings?

Blimey, cv - I would hazard a guess that you might be going to vote out

We joined because it was in our best interests to do so - and so it has proved. Do you think companies like Honda and Nissan would have set up here if we were not a gateway beyond our shores? Or a great deal of foreign investment for similar reasons? Would our home grown car industry have thrived without that investment? And so on.

You might rightly complain about a lot that goes on in the EU but what about th bigger picture and some thought about things that go well and prove beneficial?

And for the negative list, well you could draw up a similar length list in relation to how our own Governments have done. Idiocy isn't confined to the EU bureaucrats

All quite aside from the major benefit of peace and security, of course.

 

[counter_violent]

Blimey, cv - I would hazard a guess that you might be going to vote out

We joined because it was in our best interests to do so - and so it has proved. Do you think companies like Honda and Nissan would have set up here if we were not a gateway beyond our shores? Or a great deal of foreign investment for similar reasons? Would our home grown car industry have thrived without that investment? And so on.

You might rightly complain about a lot that goes on in the EU but what about th bigger picture and some thought about things that go well and prove beneficial?

And for the negative list, well you could draw up a similar length list in relation to how our own Governments have done. Idiocy isn't confined to the EU bureaucrats

All quite aside from the major benefit of peace and security, of course.

Hello Jon

Right, where do we start !

The single reason the UK became competitive in the eighties was Maggie's reform programme and this was despite the EU membership. So investment naturally followed to an area where business had more confidence that things were stable and being well run. We only need to look how the city took off as evidence of the change. None of this had anything to do with being part of Europe.

In fact, it is obvious when we examine the trends, that Europe is holding us back. We should be flying, but are being stymied with all this over regulation emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in the EU.

As for peace and security, that's another myth. We only had the NI issue back in the day.
These days we have threats from every quarter.

 

[barjon]

Yes, that's true but the likes of Honda and Nissan would have gone elsewhere in the EU if we hadn't been sufficiently competitive , but I doubt they would have come if we had not been in EU.

A myth, eh. When were we last at war with Germany (football aside ) not long ago really is it. Has EU significantly reduced the possibility of major war between European countries - I believe so and that's why I'll vote stay regardless of anything else.

 

[counter_violent]

Yes, that's true but the likes of Honda and Nissan would have gone elsewhere in the EU if we hadn't been sufficiently competitive , but I doubt they would have come if we had not been in EU.

A myth, eh. When were we last at war with Germany (football aside ) not long ago really is it. Has EU significantly reduced the possibility of major war between European countries - I believe so and that's why I'll vote stay regardless of anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

A quick comparison of conflicts in and around Europe over the centuries shows no difference in number. Different players, same old arguments. Nothing will change in this regard, I respectfully submit.

Germany's rogue dictator had to be sorted out apparently. What's the difference today sorting out Sadam or Gadaffi or any other perceived trouble maker?

Seems to me that we all go meddling in other peoples business, destabilise other countries by removing the undesirables, then leave a power vacuum which leads to more destabilisation. What a great policy eh !

I wonder if Ukraine won Eurovision on merit, or was it engineered to infuriate the Russians

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36295168

 

[counter_violent]

Well, on the basis that nobody can make a good case for Europe....I declare myself the winner.

 

[mike.]

I'm with c.v on this too I'm afraid, we will remain part of nato, we will trade with Europe, we will remain friends with Europe, we will holiday in Europe, we would just like to govern ourselves . Is it such a big ask ? Yes, toys will be thrown out of prams at first, but they will get used to it after a while...

btw...you need to register online for ether a email or postal vote before June 7. Government are keeping this quiet for some reason..:whistling

 

[counter_violent]

I'm with c.v on this too I'm afraid, we will remain part of nato, we will trade with Europe, we will remain friends with Europe, we will holiday in Europe, we would just like to govern ourselves . Is it such a big ask ? Yes, toys will be thrown out of prams at first, but they will get used to it after a while...

btw...you need to register online for ether a email or postal vote before June 7. Government are keeping this quiet for some reason..:whistling

good point mike.

Here's the link to register by June 7th

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

 

[barjon]

I'm with c.v on this too I'm afraid, we will remain part of nato, we will trade with Europe, we will remain friends with Europe, we will holiday in Europe, we would just like to govern ourselves . Is it such a big ask ? Yes, toys will be thrown out of prams at first, but they will get used to it after a while...

btw...you need to register online for ether a email or postal vote before June 7. Government are keeping this quiet for some reason..:whistling

So far as the UK is concerned the Scots say very much the same, as could Cornwall and even Milton Keynes.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Well, i'm not going to debate the small print on here, but my conclusion for all it's worth, is that i have full confidence in my and my fellow Brits to run their own show, like we have for over 1000 years without Europe to hold my hand.

I'm proud of my countries history and heritage, if it ultimately means i could be slightly worse off in life at first, then that is a risk i am well prepared to take, to be free from a bureaucratic superstate.

Regards Shane.

 

[Atilla]

Hello Jon

Right, where do we start !

The single reason the UK became competitive in the eighties was Maggie's reform programme and this was despite the EU membership. So investment naturally followed to an area where business had more confidence that things were stable and being well run. We only need to look how the city took off as evidence of the change. None of this had anything to do with being part of Europe.

In fact, it is obvious when we examine the trends, that Europe is holding us back. We should be flying, but are being stymied with all this over regulation emanating from the unelected bureaucrats in the EU.

As for peace and security, that's another myth. We only had the NI issue back in the day.
These days we have threats from every quarter.

Shocking!!! Absolutely shocking!!!

Decimate manufacturing and lay the grounds for the demise of our bankrupt banks with big bang deregulation and setting up the establishment of BT and Openreach for being the most incompetent and unreliable telecommunications company imaginable, along with the **** poor railroads for which we are all suffering for now and you come out with this rubbish.


I would dearly love to know what would be done differently when UK is out of EU.

All very well saying we can go and make other trade deals but I repeat the question again...

What are these trade deals that we can't make now and we need to be out of EU to be able to conduct them?

How is regulation which is the big gripe going to be any less? I assume UK will stipulate the regulation they are prepared to work with and will walk away from trading with EU if they disagree with the required regulation?


Yours sincerely,