Brexit - in or out

[barjon]

There is a pattern emerging.

So far we have remain side trotting out institutional leaders like Carney BOE, Legard IMF, Obama US pres, crony capitalist corp leaders, (probably looking for gongs) and on it goes. None of this group should really be expressing an opinion, they are supposed to be impartial !

All this propaganda should be challenged. These people are dangerous self servers, who's only interest is in preserving the system for their own ends.

.....................on the other hand they may be right.

 

[forker]

Well I'm glad you acknowledge there are at least some pay backs. But yes you are right nothing in life is free.

So do you think the UK would be able to have a space program on her own?

Do you think the UK would be able to participate in the Large Hadron Collider experiments or be able to afford such research on her own?


http://www.theguardian.com/higher-e...annot-afford-to-lose-out-on-this-pot-of-money


Just one example of an EU initiative illustrates its huge potential. Andre Geim and Kostya Novoselov, Manchester’s Nobel laureates and graphene pioneers, were awarded €1bn over 10 years by the EU’s Future and Emerging Technologies scheme to work with academic and commercial partners. Their goal: to transform their chance discovery into a whole new family of technologies and industries.

We don’t all win Nobels, and most EU funding is not so generous. But scientists love evidence, and the evidence is clear. Bluntly, if the UK were to leave the EU, we would massively and irreversibly damage an enterprise on which our future depends.

How do you think these R&D projects are jointly managed?

Add the Typhoon EuroFighter development project to that list too?

I doubt it even registers on your consideration radar as an after thought.


There is much more at stake here than I think you appreciate or value as being worthy. City of London wants in. UK Science wants in.

England needs your vote. Don't be led by Brexiters who are politicians more interested in maintaining their power base.

Have an open mind and weigh the arguments and value the cost benefit analysis carefully.

I too respect your views. I wouldn't spend so much time answering them or try and win you over to the in vote otherwise.

All the best matey

There are thousands of scientists and engineers from over 100 countries that study at the hadron collider, so yes we still could have participated in the project regardless of being a member of the EU.

All those examples you have giving comes from the money we give the EU with plenty of change to spare. They could still have access to a similar government program that we control. As for the spare change, well we could build up infrastructure and public services.

 

[forker]

Another point regarding the European space agency is that it is almost irrelevant. Government funded space programs suffer funding issues whereas commercial business such as spacex is able to generate income to allow greater innovation and research. European space program for starters doesn't have a reusable engine design.

 

[counter_violent]

.....................on the other hand they may be right.

hardly likely.

HIGHWAYS operative Tom Logan is angry that he always has to use the shovel while his team stands around watching him.

34-year-old Logan said: “We all know council regulations stipulate there can be only one shovel per working party.

“However I would really prefer it if we could pass the shovel around the group at hourly intervals, so that I could spend some time leaning on machinery and smoking fags like everyone else.”

However Logan’s colleague Stephen Malley said: “It is an honour to wield the shovel, I can’t believe how ungrateful he’s being.

“Also the standing around thing is surprisingly hard, it requires great mental focus.”

 

[Atilla]

There are thousands of scientists and engineers from over 100 countries that study at the hadron collider, so yes we still could have participated in the project regardless of being a member of the EU.

All those examples you have giving comes from the money we give the EU with plenty of change to spare. They could still have access to a similar government program that we control. As for the spare change, well we could build up infrastructure and public services.

I think you'll find any discovery there will be patented with rewards going to the contributors.

Nothing in life is free.

I was trying to show there are other paybacks to what ever the £35m you quoted. Money isn't wasted. It simply circulates.

 

[Oscar Reed]

Strictly Come Dancing More Important

Interest in the UK-EU Referendum since December 2012

It looks impressive. A steady trickle of traffic, followed by a generous spike over the UK General Election last May which has now been eclipsed by a new surge of interest as we approach the outcome of February's crunch European Council meeting.

Or at least it looks impressive until you set the interest in Brexit against say, the Premier League, or Strictly Come Dancing. At which point the relative interest in the EU referendum is so minimal it all but disappears from view.

UK Referendum interest, relative to Premier League, Strictly Come Dancing

The picture is clear. Less than six months from a possible referendum on Britain's future in Europe, and less than six weeks from the outcome of Mr Cameron's "make or break" negotiation with Brussels, it is the beautiful game and a TV dance-off contest that have the public's attention. Panem et circenses, as the saying goes.

Which begs the next question. When, reasonably speaking, might the political and chattering classes expect the public to wake up to the momentus decision that awaits them?

Well, if you take a seven month window around the 2014 Scottish referendum as a proxy, or the same period around the 2015 General Election, it is clear just how narrow the window of interest really is.

 

[Splitlink]

Beg to differ Split.
Without UK involvement in the EU project....there will be no EU project. Mark my words, if we leave, you can watch it all fall apart !

You make it sound as if the UK is some form of 5th column that is to be credited for such an event.

If the EU falls apart it will be in spite of the UK, not because of it.

 

[Splitlink]

There is a pattern emerging.

So far we have remain side trotting out institutional leaders like Carney BOE, Legard IMF, Obama US pres, crony capitalist corp leaders, (probably looking for gongs) and on it goes. None of this group should really be expressing an opinion, they are supposed to be impartial !

All this propaganda should be challenged. These people are dangerous self servers, who's only interest is in preserving the system for their own ends.

That is nothing new . It has always been like that since the before the Romans .
Who are you considering as replacements?

You will, certainly, lose Scotland, who are clearly pro EU., so don't tell us about EU falling apart, please. The whole point of leaving the EU is that it should benefit the UK. Most of the Brexit arguments seem to be baseless taunts, of no real point, at all, except to distract the British people from the serious matters that will befront them after leaving.

Do you "Brexits" really believe that you hold all the cards? It begs the question, "Why did you join in the first place?"

 

[Atilla]

That is nothing new . It has always been like that since the before the Romans .
Who are you considering as replacements?

You will, certainly, lose Scotland, who are clearly pro EU., so don't tell us about EU falling apart, please. The whole point of leaving the EU is that it should benefit the UK. Most of the Brexit arguments seem to be baseless taunts, of no real point, at all, except to distract the British people from the serious matters that will befront them after leaving.

Do you "Brexits" really believe that you hold all the cards? It begs the question, "Why did you join in the first place?"

Agree strongly with your point and the answer is simple.

Between 1951 - 1975, it was evident UK was falling behind member countries, like Portugal, Italy and Spain.

No other reason but to keep up with neighbours pulling ahead.

 

[Pat494]

Well here is a sort of explanation of why the EU moves to Strasburg once a month for a week.
Absolutely barmy but insisted on by Les Froggies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03vcqvc

Oh and they can stick their outdated, over expensive nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point too. It would be cheaper to build a tidal barrage across The Seven Estuary for a lot more power FOR EVER.

 

[Splitlink]

Well here is a sort of explanation of why the EU moves to Strasburg once a month for a week.
Absolutely barmy but insisted on by Les Froggies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03vcqvc

Oh and they can stick their outdated, over expensive nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point too. It would be cheaper to build a tidal barrage across The Seven Estuary for a lot more power FOR EVER.

But you have not even started a barrier, yet. With all the flooding that the UK has been getting over the last few winters, what has been done?

What Europe has, it has. Tell us what you have? Tell us about the HS train. We have that and it is pretty old hat, to tell the truth. Actually, the Spanish are buiding one for the Saudis.

Tell the British public why they would be better off spending their money after Brexit. Don't tell me---I live here!

 

[Atilla]

But you have not even started a barrier, yet. With all the flooding that the UK has been getting over the last few winters, what has been done?

What Europe has, it has. Tell us what you have? Tell us about the HS train. We have that and it is pretty old hat, to tell the truth. Actually, the Spanish are buiding one for the Saudis.

Tell the British public why they would be better off spending their money after Brexit. Don't tell me---I live here!

If I had to pick between Nigel and Splitlink, there is no contest at all.

I would believe and trust the word of Split not Nigels.

That Nigel and his Sovereignty is a joke. It really is. More like protecting his titles, robes and his power base.

Someone should do a cost comparisons between our Lords and EU Commissioners.

 

[Splitlink]

If I had to pick between Nigel and Splitlink, there is no contest at all.

I would believe and trust the word of Split not Nigels.

That Nigel and his Sovereignty is a joke. It really is. More like protecting his titles, robes and his power base.

Someone should do a cost comparisons between our Lords and EU Commissioners.

Thanks for the compliment, Atilla, but I am very average and no economist, at all. I do believe, though, that the EU is not as bad as Brexits would paint it. Why are they doing that? Because they want the UK out, that's why. They will use all the tricks that they know to do it and scaremongering is the name of the game until Referendum Day.

I was worried about some blood pressure, this morning. Rang up Social Services.
" Come up and see the doctor at 1210---Ok?" This is day to day life as the man in the street wants to live it. If the politicians can deliver that, I am not complaining.

 

[Pat494]

Another nasty problem is the rise of the ultra Right wing movements around Europe. The sort of people hhiusa and New Trader seem to approve. They would be machine gunning the migrants and refugees on the beaches I expect.
The population explosion especially in Africa won't go away. There is no concerted effort to wipe out the terrorist movements spawned there either.

 

[counter_violent]

So if you want to know what the smart money is doing...it's leaving EU. France a classic example who consistently refuse to reform their business and labour laws and as a result have 0 growth and higher taxes. All the smart money is moving to the UK. Spain has massive youth unemployment as do the rest of the southern EU block.
The only country that benefits economically from the EU project is Germany and this is because it is surrounded by economically illiterate neighbours that help keep the EU a trade area backwater.
Then we have the inability to enforce any sort of EU border controls, which allow the free movement of all kinds of peoples including terrorists. Is this what we want really ?

It's far easier to point out what is wrong with the EU, than make any kind of positive case for it, because there simply isn't one. The whole project is unfit for purpose.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

 

[Pat494]

What the EU needs is a thorough overhaul. A committee of independent experts should be set up to reorganise the shambles from top to bottom within 5 years.
The Parliament should have the power, not the unelected overpaid bureaucrats and go from there imho. It seems to have been constructed to avoid change, competency or credibility and therefore doomed.

About the only thing going for it is that it is too incompetent to even contemplate going to war. Of course the commissioners don't want change. The idle *** would be out of a lucrative job for life.

 

[counter_violent]

What the EU needs is a thorough overhaul. A committee of independent experts should be set up to reorganise the shambles from top to bottom within 5 years.
The Parliament should have the power, not the unelected overpaid bureaucrats and go from there imho. It seems to have been constructed to avoid change, compentcy or credibility and therefore doomed.

Exactly and because they collectively refuse to listen to good sense, they will continue down the slippery slope leading eventually to anarchy. So if the UK leaves, it WILL all fall apart.

https://www.statista.com/chart/3644/youth-unemployment-still-unrelenting-in-europe/

Breeding ground for discontent....a lost generation in the making.

 

[Atilla]

So if you want to know what the smart money is doing...it's leaving EU. France a classic example who consistently refuse to reform their business and labour laws and as a result have 0 growth and higher taxes. All the smart money is moving to the UK. Spain has massive youth unemployment as do the rest of the southern EU block.
The only country that benefits economically from the EU project is Germany and this is because it is surrounded by economically illiterate neighbours that help keep the EU a trade area backwater.
Then we have the inability to enforce any sort of EU border controls, which allow the free movement of all kinds of peoples including terrorists. Is this what we want really ?

It's far easier to point out what is wrong with the EU, than make any kind of positive case for it, because there simply isn't one. The whole project is unfit for purpose.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

:jester::jester::jester::jester::jester:

You clowning or wot?​

 

[Splitlink]

Exactly and because they collectively refuse to listen to good sense, they will continue down the slippery slope leading eventually to anarchy. So if the UK leaves, it WILL all fall apart.

If you do leave, it will not be your problem. This what I do not quite understand about Brexit arguments. Did you listen to Teresa May today? It was a damning indictment on the UK police force. Why don't you get to work and do something about that? And the NHS. And the flooding problems. How many illegal immigrants have been killed by police brutality in Europe? How many died at Hillsbury? How many girls were introduced to prostitution at Rotherham and other cities.?

Nothing is perfect. The EU needs a hell of a lot doing to it. But the Brits live in a glasshouse. They should not throw so many stones.

 

[counter_violent]

:jester::jester::jester::jester::jester:

You clowning or wot?

I must have missed the bit where you defended high EU unemployment which is obviously a sign of great economic strength