Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Those MP's won't be lolling when she does snap, de-selects them and calls an election. Then we will see if Brexit means Brexit !

That's exactly where Parliament is heading imo.

Tories only have a 16 seat majority and there are more pro Europeans than 16 so what is she going to do other than do what's right.

I think she should run with it as long as possible whilst delaying.

Not good for UK though. As uncertainty is preventing real Investment (not ones started many moons ago) and city institutions looking to leave. Only matter of time before they say feck it, let's just go.


Surprised no one's come out with some pop song about Brexit means Brexit, red white and blue, up yours, bloody EU.

Maybe by December, we can all be bopping around the Christmas tree to it.

 

[Atilla]

Seems to be a lot of unhatched chicken counting on both sides, each of which derides the other with lots of lols as though it's all settled. But this process will take months, if not years, and the outcome is anything but settled.

Pay close attention to what's going on in the US, Denmark, France, Austria, Italy, and Germany, at the least (not to mention the Far East).

Yes indeed and add Bulgaria to that list of countries...

http://www.paneuropeannetworks.com/government/bulgaria-set-for-snap-election/

Don't see EU braking up though. Getting stronger at our expense.

 

[Atilla]

Ken Clarke lost his marbles a long time ago when he recommended the Euro.

But the PM is just winding up the Remainers & throwing them a few sprats to keep them happy. There is a clever scheming machine (Tory Black Box) at work with that bloke & woman who are May's chief advisers (SPADS) in the back of No10.

At PMQs they made a complete pratt of Corbyn today (actually quite easy on most days but today was a whopper) by winding him up with Davies's speech yesterday and then announcing the White Paper just before Jezza asked his pre-prepared question on (guess what?) provision of a WP. Poor old Jezza had to hastily change his question to ask about its timing instead. Rather missed the point and just emphasised how far out of his depth he was - totally incapable of thinking on his feet (or anything else for that matter). In reply to his next old chestnut on dastardly Tory employment conditions, she followed up by well and truly stuffing him with the Labour Mayor of London's comments earlier today, of how good and well-intentioned are the Tory proposals for maintenance of workers' rights. Best Parliamentary theatrical I've seen in a long while. Gloomy faces all round on the Labour benches.

Essentially, the government have conceded a few skirmishes but are winning the battle. A Pyrrhic victory for the Remainers indeed.

Don't see it as victory for remainers more for the UK.


I tihnk key factor is expressed in this line. Soubry was one of at least six Conservative legislators, including five former ministers, who united with the main opposition Labour Party on Tuesday to explicitly demand a white paper.

Tory party got a whiff of dissent and duely stepped into line as ordered by the judiciary.

Otherwise, she would still be playing silly poker games.

 

[dbphoenix]

Yes indeed and add Bulgaria to that list of countries...

http://www.paneuropeannetworks.com/government/bulgaria-set-for-snap-election/

Don't see EU braking up though. Getting stronger at our expense.

Based on what I'm reading, the "getting stronger" business may have less to do with the UK and more to do with Trump's actions on trade. The EU is busily courting the other 11 members of the TPP, and unless the EU is outright lying has deals with Peru, Canada, Singapore, and Vietnam, is negotiating deals with Japan and Mexico, and plans to open talks with Australia, New Zealand, and Chile. Given that Trump caused Abe to lose face (and I doubt that Trump even knows what that is or what he did to bring it about), Japan will likely be eager to line up with just about anybody else. As for Mexico, I expect that they are looking for an opportunity to send a big f*ck you to Washington.

 

[counter_violent]

Don't see it as victory for remainers more for the UK.


I tihnk key factor is expressed in this line. Soubry was one of at least six Conservative legislators, including five former ministers, who united with the main opposition Labour Party on Tuesday to explicitly demand a white paper.

Tory party got a whiff of decent to the right thing and duely stepped into line as ordered by the judiciary.

Otherwise, she would still be playing silly poker games.

Funny you mention her, she's definitely on the list for de-selection

 

[counter_violent]

Shock poll puts UKIP 10 points ahead in Stoke.

http://www.westmonster.com/shock-poll-ukip-on-course-to-win-stoke-by-election/

 

[Atilla]

Funny you mention her, she's definitely on the list for de-selection

And what about the other 5?

16 seat majority, not much to laugh about.


Elections likely to be a right dogs dinner either way.

 

[Atilla]

Serious business negotiations.

“We have got to be really careful that we are not out-gunned and out-classed because we are only fielding our C-Team, which is all we have got at the moment,” said Byrne, a former minister in the main opposition Labour party. “The U.S. has one of the best-organized and most powerful trade-negotiating machines on Earth. The idea that a few gentlemen-amateurs in Whitehall are going to go and beat Donald Trump’s team -- and then the U.S. Congress, which has the final say -- is frankly optimistic.”


May-Trump Trade Talks Said to Be Hit by Lack of U.K. Negotiators

 

[Atilla]

This made me laugh out loud...

Theresa May to meet the Tory 'new *******s' opposed to hard Brexit

There I thought you lovely peeps were rude labelling BetterIn's remoaners...

New ******* sounds fun


Another paper has headline stating May has averted a back bench rebellion. Too right she has. Forced to. In fact 'ordered to'.

 

[sminicooper]

Serious business negotiations.

“We have got to be really careful that we are not out-gunned and out-classed because we are only fielding our C-Team, which is all we have got at the moment,” said Byrne, a former minister in the main opposition Labour party. “The U.S. has one of the best-organized and most powerful trade-negotiating machines on Earth. The idea that a few gentlemen-amateurs in Whitehall are going to go and beat Donald Trump’s team -- and then the U.S. Congress, which has the final say -- is frankly optimistic.”


May-Trump Trade Talks Said to Be Hit by Lack of U.K. Negotiators

Atilla Old Boy, you really must be a bit more careful in quoting from biased sources with a dodgy provenance!

Liam Byrne above, is an arch-Remainer and Labour party wonk whose Parliamentary constituency voted Brexit. He was also Gordon Brown's deputy at the Treasury and famous for leaving the note apologising to the incoming Chancellor that all the money had gone. Speaks loads for his judgement so I don't suppose his views above are any more worthwhile!

 

[sminicooper]

This made me laugh out loud...

Theresa May to meet the Tory 'new *******s' opposed to hard Brexit

There I thought you lovely peeps were rude labelling BetterIn's remoaners...

New ******* sounds fun


Another paper has headline stating May has averted a back bench rebellion. Too right she has. Forced to. In fact 'ordered to'.

I'm always happy to assist in exposing Guardian propaganda so here's an amended link to that story: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/13
(I couldn't get the proper link to load either – but the amended link has the offending article on right-hand side of page) – wouldn't have happened in a proper newspaper would it?

The only problem with the article is that it was published on 13th December – ages ago and doesn't take account of what's happened since: She's basically given them what they've asked for (but they won't like it and still will complain) so that they have now really got nothing of substance to go on. Soubry and her lot will be seen as irritants and I suggest will have little effective support. A good try by the Guardian though (had the makings of a good story in December) – perhaps the BBC will now pick it up and make more of it

Afterthought: John Major never got to grips with his ba$tards but I reckon Theresa will get her back room heavies to sort them out (10 minutes round the back of the bike sheds should do it!).

 

[counter_violent]

I'm always happy to assist in exposing Guardian propaganda so here's an amended link to that story: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/13
(I couldn't get the proper link to load either – but the amended link has the offending article on right-hand side of page) – wouldn't have happened in a proper newspaper would it?

The only problem with the article is that it was published on 13th December – ages ago and doesn't take account of what's happened since: She's basically given them what they've asked for (but they won't like it and still will complain) so that they have now really got nothing of substance to go on. Soubry and her lot will be seen as irritants and I suggest will have little effective support. A good try by the Guardian though (had the makings of a good story in December) – perhaps the BBC will now pick it up and make more of it

Afterthought: John Major never got to grips with his ba$tards but I reckon Theresa will get her back room heavies to sort them out (10 minutes round the back of the bike sheds should do it!).

I've looked long and hard at Brexit, all I can see is a bright future. True we started this new disruptive change, but it's been a long time in the making. It can't be a coincidence that the US has gone the same way. Europe is in complete disarray and words fail me as to the motivations of these would be remainers. What is it that they find so appealing about staying in the EU ! Anyone with half a brain knows it's going to go belly up. As for the politics in the UK, we have the sensible tory trying to steer a course through to the other side and then we have all the political loonies, SNP, Libs, Labs out trying to defend the indefensible.

If reports are correct, Lab is finished as the party representing the workers, (not that they have done so over the last 30 yrs). UKIP are storming ahead in the North and Midlands because there are only 2 options on any future ballot paper, Brexit or jump back on the sinking ship.

So what could a future parliament look like.

Tory increased majority.
Labour collapse.
Lib mini revival.
UKIP possibly gain 50 seats.
SNP no change.

The dynamic under such a result would be a more inclusive Tory administration (which is the way May is heading), with UKIP policing it to ensure a fair deal for everyone.

I can see that working well.

If May feels compelled to call an early election, she needn't worry. It's a slam dunk !

 

[hhiusa]

I've looked long and hard at Brexit, all I can see is a bright future. True we started this new disruptive change, but it's been a long time in the making. It can't be a coincidence that the US has gone the same way. Europe is in complete disarray and words fail me as to the motivations of these would be remainers. What is it that they find so appealing about staying in the EU ! Anyone with half a brain knows it's going to go belly up. As for the politics in the UK, we have the sensible tory trying to steer a course through to the other side and then we have all the political loonies, SNP, Libs, Labs out trying to defend the indefensible.

If reports are correct, Lab is finished as the party representing the workers, (not that they have done so over the last 30 yrs). UKIP are storming ahead in the North and Midlands because there are only 2 options on any future ballot paper, Brexit or jump back on the sinking ship.

So what could a future parliament look like.

Tory increased majority.
Labour collapse.
Lib mini revival.
UKIP possibly gain 50 seats.
SNP no change.

The dynamic under such a result would be a more inclusive Tory administration (which is the way May is heading), with UKIP policing it to ensure a fair deal for everyone.

I can see that working well.

If May feels compelled to call an early election, she needn't worry. It's a slam dunk !

UKIP 50 seats? Viva.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla Old Boy, you really must be a bit more careful in quoting from biased sources with a dodgy provenance!

Liam Byrne above, is an arch-Remainer and Labour party wonk whose Parliamentary constituency voted Brexit. He was also Gordon Brown's deputy at the Treasury and famous for leaving the note apologising to the incoming Chancellor that all the money had gone. Speaks loads for his judgement so I don't suppose his views above are any more worthwhile!

The point that we are lacking international negotiators remains as raised by our internal parliamentary committees.

We need to hire some from the EU who have excellent negotiators.

Subject requires expertise in many areas not just the technical administration but on the economics of it all, the US, the UK as well as some strategic and visionary thinkers.

Right now the US is asking what does UK have to offer us?

UK is leaving the EU and needs to maintain NATO. US is thinking of scrapping NATO. EU believes NATO not much cop and doesn't perceive Russia as a threat anymore.

TTP is harmful to our interests and health. We should NOT accept it. US will want us to have it.


No matter what comes out, TM will hail it a success along with Trump but experts will know looking at the fine detail, we have zilch. Theresa is a bit of a feminist so it goes and wears the trousers. Trump is a womaniser. Not exactly Ragan or Thatcher arm in arm so association already ugly but press and Brexiters like it. TM does not. I doubt Trump will go for the pussy but she's tight lipped and his a blabber mouth. It is not the right relationshiop from the outset on so many levels.

Strategically, leaving EU right now with US going isolationist is about the worst direction to head in.

I fear the Brexit camp have got their heads up their rears so far they'll neither be able to see or hear any sense.

Beware and apply caution. You shouldn't consider who's saying what but weigh arguments for their merit.

I hope our elder statesmen lead us in the right direction. Thank goodness for our constitution and parliament.

 

[timsk]

. . .Lib mini revival. . .

9/10 for your assessment c_v. IMO, the only thing that stops it from being a straight 10 is the suggestion of a Lib Dem mini revival. Is that really likely with Tim Farron as their leader? A man who, as one eminent political commentator highly respected for his incisive thinking, noted "has the statesmanship of a meerkat, but without the charm or brain cells."

 

[Atilla]

9/10 for your assessment c_v. IMO, the only thing that stops it from being a straight 10 is the suggestion of a Lib Dem mini revival. Is that really likely with Tim Farron as their leader? A man who, as one eminent political commentator highly respected for his incisive thinking, noted "has the statesmanship of a meerkat, but without the charm or brain cells."

I'll be voting Liberal

 

[sminicooper]

I'll be voting Liberal

I suspect that realistically, it may well be your only choice. The very sad thing about UK politics at the moment is that a whole class of people – those with a social conscience & who do not embrace the politics of the right – have been left with nowhere to go. This truly marks the irrresponsibility of the Labour party which ironically, was set up to represent the un-represented and has now surrendered that mantle to UKIP.

In your position I don't know what I would do: the Lib Dems are a bit of a joke and their recent brief moment of glory when they had some kind of chance, is now well in the past. The Greens? – That Lucas woman is off her trolley. UKIP? – They got their referendum and are now probably past their sell by date, especially without Nigel. SNP will do Scotland no favours but will ever be looked upon with gratitude by the Conservatives for snuffing out so many Labour seats. So that leaves the Conservatives doesn't it!

What I think your best bet is, for a long and contented political life, is to get some of that old Soviet medicine and be politically re-educated and re-programmed to understand that taking a reasonable, fair and honest approach to politics is no good anymore.

 

[Splitlink]

I suspect that realistically, it may well be your only choice. The very sad thing about UK politics at the moment is that a whole class of people – those with a social conscience & who do not embrace the politics of the right – have been left with nowhere to go. This truly marks the irrresponsibility of the Labour party which ironically, was set up to represent the un-represented and has now surrendered that mantle to UKIP.

In your position I don't know what I would do: the Lib Dems are a bit of a joke and their recent brief moment of glory when they had some kind of chance, is now well in the past. The Greens? – That Lucas woman is off her trolley. UKIP? – They got their referendum and are now probably past their sell by date, especially without Nigel. SNP will do Scotland no favours but will ever be looked upon with gratitude by the Conservatives for snuffing out so many Labour seats. So that leaves the Conservatives doesn't it!

What I think your best bet is, for a long and contented political life, is to get some of that old Soviet medicine and be politically re-educated and re-programmed to understand that taking a reasonable, fair and honest approach to politics is no good anymore.

I never answered your question "If you are not a democrat, what are you?" Now you know the reason. I am in a quandary.

Our new Spanish party "Ciudadanos", or Citizens Party, may be an answer. They are right of centre and have allied themselves with the governing conservative party under Rajoy.

They are still innocent, I'm afraid, but at least they know it and their reason for being in government is to eliminate coruption and keep an eye on education, social security, etc. Leaving the experts to run foreign policy and all the rest. They are with the right government for that! PP is as corrupt as hell.

Let's see if they survive, or end up like the UK Libdems. For me, they are the only ones around, at present, that I would pick.

 

[sminicooper]

I never answered your question "If you are not a democrat, what are you?" Now you know the reason. I am in a quandary.

Our new Spanish party "Ciudadanos", or Citizens Party, may be an answer. They are right of centre and have allied themselves with the governing conservative party under Rajoy.

They are still innocent, I'm afraid, but at least they know it and their reason for being in government is to eliminate coruption and keep an eye on education, social security, etc. Leaving the experts to run foreign policy and all the rest. They are with the right government for that! PP is as corrupt as hell.

Let's see if they survive, or end up like the UK Libdems. For me, they are the only ones around, at present, that I would pick.

It's interesting that from what you say, this problem is not just confined to the UK. I'm now starting to believe that the apparent shift in European politics is becoming reality and that the Europe 10-15 years hence will be very different from that of today. Let's hope it will be for the better!

 

[Atilla]

I suspect that realistically, it may well be your only choice. The very sad thing about UK politics at the moment is that a whole class of people – those with a social conscience & who do not embrace the politics of the right – have been left with nowhere to go. This truly marks the irrresponsibility of the Labour party which ironically, was set up to represent the un-represented and has now surrendered that mantle to UKIP.

Labour party represents the working man. Not as you make out the un-represented.

UKIP born out of Euro sceptics who could not get a foot hold in the Tory party as each time the so called 'bastidos' tried, they were slapped down.

You analysis off-skew I'm afraid. Moreover, UKIP do not represent the un-represented. They are opportunists representing capitalists and pockets of interest who want no control of any type wrt regulation or direction. The average British worker will soon come to see when they don't get jobs, wage growth or reduction in migrant numbers.

If any of these were possible, the Tory party would have done so by now. Each time they come to power promising as such and doing quite the opposite.

People will believe what suits their ends and argument without much thinking at any deeper level.

In your position I don't know what I would do: the Lib Dems are a bit of a joke and their recent brief moment of glory when they had some kind of chance, is now well in the past. The Greens? – That Lucas woman is off her trolley. UKIP? – They got their referendum and are now probably past their sell by date, especially without Nigel. SNP will do Scotland no favours but will ever be looked upon with gratitude by the Conservatives for snuffing out so many Labour seats. So that leaves the Conservatives doesn't it!

Libdems did what was right for the country and formed a coalition with Tories. I thought Nick Clegg and Vince Cable were brilliant. Their good work and compromise bearing fruit today as TM embraces their policies claiming them for her self. Sadly Clegg the Etonite not being a savy politician and Camerons pal went back on his promise to do with student fees and people will remember broken promises.

What I think your best bet is, for a long and contented political life, is to get some of that old Soviet medicine and be politically re-educated and re-programmed to understand that taking a reasonable, fair and honest approach to politics is no good anymore.

Don't understand your old Soviet medicine jibe. Never have been a vodka man.

Political education is not what is made out to be. Look at Osborn and Cameron. All that effort raising two dicks who've messed up big time. They both out played them selves with their political education and wisdom. :idea: