Brexit and the Consequences

[timsk]

You'll likely be surprised at how quickly that 8b disappears and no one will know exactly where it went.

Very true dbp. However, at least that argument will be a domestic one that our politicians can have internally and the electorate can decide accordingly at the polls. As things currently stand, that £8 billion (or £10 billion for those who prefer to believe the tabloids, lol) is lost into the bottomless pit that is the EU.
Tim.

 

[dbphoenix]

Elections are meaningless when none of the parties offer what the people want.

In which case it's up to the people to find and support those who do offer what the people want. Otherwise, disband Parliament and revert to monarchic rule.

Liberty has a price.

 

[dbphoenix]

Very true dbp. However, at least that argument will be a domestic one that our politicians can have internally and the electorate can decide accordingly at the polls. As things currently stand, that £8 billion (or £10 billion for those who prefer to believe the tabloids, lol) is lost into the bottomless pit that is the EU.
Tim.

And will likely be lost into yet another bottomless pit. More important is to recognize that the money need not actually be there when the dust settles. To assume that it will be becomes a specious argument and should have no bearing on the decision-making process.

 

[counter_violent]

In which case it's up to the people to find and support those who do offer what the people want. Otherwise, disband Parliament and revert to monarchic rule.

Liberty has a price.

That's how UKIP came about. A party that talks about the real issues and in turn forced the referendum.

 

[sminicooper]

Judicial Review - Remainers' last gasp?

I see that some joker is applying for a judicial review on the basis that the referendum didn't give the government authority to leave the Single Market.

What next - infringement of human rights?

Details here http://singlemarket.org.uk/

 

[dbphoenix]

That's how UKIP came about. A party that talks about the real issues and in turn forced the referendum.

A relatively narrow majority, however, is not exactly a mandate.

It's interesting that Britain -- and most of Europe -- is dealing with much the same issues we are. Try to avoid making the same mistakes.

 

[counter_violent]

A relatively narrow majority, however, is not exactly a mandate.

It's interesting that Britain -- and most of Europe -- is dealing with much the same issues we are. Try to avoid making the same mistakes.

The referendum may have been a narrow majority, but given the nature of referenda, a majority none the less. So it absolutely is a mandate.

Interestingly, UKIP was and is the largest party from the UK in the European parliament. So it's not as if our government didn't know what was to come.

 

[forker]

I'm sick of people saying it was a narrow majority as though it should be void when the same majority would be perfectly acceptable in an election.

 

[dbphoenix]

The referendum may have been a narrow majority, but given the nature of referenda, a majority none the less. So it absolutely is a mandate.

I suppose it depends on how one defines "mandate". But the point of my post had to do with the nature of mistakes being or about to be made. Again, not dissimilar from our situation.

Given that the IQ level of this thread is higher than most, it all makes for interesting reading.

 

[sminicooper]

I'm sick of people saying it was a narrow majority as though it should be void when the same majority would be perfectly acceptable in an election.

And yet the British culture I grew up with was to always be a good loser .......... perhaps that was only in cricket ?

 

[dbphoenix]

I'm sick of people saying it was a narrow majority as though it should be void when the same majority would be perfectly acceptable in an election.

No one is saying it should be void. However, interpreting a narrow majority as the will of the people highlights the difference between a democracy and a republic. And of course the will of the people is somewhat watered down by your form of government, not unlike the Electoral College in the US.

 

[timsk]

Hi dbp,

And will likely be lost into yet another bottomless pit.

That may be the case, but it's the principle of the matter that's important and that's what's behind my vote to leave. Namely, our politicians are elected, accountable and removable if they fail to perform. The 'metropolitan elite' who run the EU are not.

More important is to recognize that the money need not actually be there when the dust settles. To assume that it will be becomes a specious argument and should have no bearing on the decision-making process.

I'm not assuming that the money will be there, but I am assuming that it will be 'saved', by which I mean that it's not handed over to someone else to waste. If it's to be lost in a bottomless pit, it's much better for that to happen within the U.K. than to be feathering the nests of the 'metropolitan elite' in the EU.
Tim.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi dbp,

That may be the case, but it's the principle of the matter that's important and that's what's behind my vote to leave. Namely, our politicians are elected, accountable and removable if they fail to perform. The 'metropolitan elite' who run the EU are not.

I'm not assuming that the money will be there, but I am assuming that it will be 'saved', by which I mean that it's not handed over to someone else to waste. If it's to be lost in a bottomless pit, it's much better for that to happen within the U.K. than to be feathering the nests of the 'metropolitan elite' in the EU.
Tim.

Perhaps if energies were directed toward preventing any monies from feathering anybody's nest . . .

 

[counter_violent]

Perhaps if energies were directed toward preventing any monies from feathering anybody's nest . . .

Or better still, not be created in the first instance and any saving made from leaving the EU be directed towards paying down the national debt.

That will be my next campaign. One thing at a time

 

[dbphoenix]

Or better still, not be created in the first instance and any saving made from leaving the EU be directed towards paying down the national debt.

That will be my next campaign. One thing at a time

If the oligarchs are as much in control in Britain as they are here, that won't happen.

 

[Splitlink]

No Split', Tim does not say it will be £8 billion - the Institute for Fiscal Studies - a heavily pro-remain institution - says it will be £8 billion. Of course, if you'd prefer to believe an unattributed reference to a tabloid - that's your prerogative.

No, Tim, I accepted the Daily Express figure in the first instance. Knowing the DE, it has maximised the sum as much as possible.

 

[timsk]

No, Tim, I accepted the Daily Express figure in the first instance. Knowing the DE, it has maximised the sum as much as possible.

Fair enough Split' - either way, savings of somewhere in the region of eight to ten billion spondoolies are not to be sniffed at!

 

[Splitlink]

Fair enough Split' - either way, savings of somewhere in the region of eight to ten billion spondoolies are not to be sniffed at!

I suppose not and it is an example of how debased all our currencies have become to be talking in billions when we used to talk in terms of millions. Now, however, debt, that can never be repaid, is quoted in trillions.

10 billion euros saved, must make Brexiters feel delighted. However, if you think that Spain is getting all, or most of that, for all the services to run efficiently it makes me feel indignant, to say the least.

We are not happy with European affairs, either. EU is nowhere near perfect. Maybe, you are right. It may break up, but it will not be without us having tried. I am very proud to be living with these people.

 

[Atilla]

EU will not breakup. Brexit bringing EU even closer together. It's surprising they've united over a common stance against the UK. Hopefully, there may be some cracks in their lines.

It may crystallize what life will be like outside the EU if UK comes out worse. Just when global trade economies reviving again. One should not lose site of Opportunities or Threats.

Time will reveal all.



fwiw UK BoP deteriorated further apparently despite 18% fall in pound. -9.7 bn for Dec.

M > X after 18% fall??? is a bit of a puzzle. Explaining this is tough!

 

[forker]

EU will not breakup. Brexit bringing EU even closer together. It's surprising they've united over a common stance against the UK. Hopefully, there may be some cracks in their lines.

It may crystallize what life will be like outside the EU if UK comes out worse. Just when global trade economies reviving again. One should not lose site of Opportunities or Threats.

Time will reveal all.



fwiw UK BoP deteriorated further apparently despite 18% fall in pound. -9.7 bn for Dec.

M > X after 18% fall??? is a bit of a puzzle. Explaining this is tough!

Clearly 27 members with a history of conflict due to differing needs, opinions, beliefs, and wealth, are getting along just fine. Just look at the migrant issue and how many have gone against eu. Look at individual countries, take Germany for example. Apparently migrants are suing the government for benefits and rights and 90 percent of cases that go to court are won. The German justice have said that they believe there will be a flood of new cases emerging. How will this settle with the average Germans that's seen their world change almost over night.

Look at Greece, they can never pay back that debt and there is only so much the people will take before Grexit.

Its only a matter of time for the differences and conflict to go past breaking point. Anyone who believes no other country will exit is delusional. History repeats itself, conflict always returns. As the eurotwats enforce closer integration so will the friction.

The USA worked because English was the main language as was the majority of the religious elements. You can't make the same work when you have over 20 languages and different cultures.

A unite States of Europe... Please they are in la la land

Tick tock... It will come