Brexit and the Consequences

[timsk]

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Er, aren't Spain in the eu then? So how come their trains aren't in a similar mess as ours if it's caused by being in the club.

Aye Jon, they are (in 'the club').
The point I was making is that we (as in the U.K.) pay into to EU who, in turn, pay out to favoured beneficiaries - Spain being one of them. The upgrade in infrastructure in southern Spain over the past decade has been quite phenomenal - and much of it has been funded by the EU. Their HS2 rail link between Malaga and Seville is just one example. While we have endless debates about the benefits and costs of such a scheme here - Spain just gets on with it. The redevelopment of the port area of Malaga, along with its airport and brand new underground system - would not have been possible without EU funding. Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased for the Spanish and enjoy the benefits of all this when I go there - it's great. My belief is that when we in the U.K. no longer have the financial burden and stifling bureaucracy imposed on us by our EU membership, we'll be able to use the money saved and administrative freedom to upgrade our own dilapidated infrastructure to the same standard enjoyed by the Spanish. Oh, and let's not forget - we'll also be able to chuck a few extra quid at the NHS of course! Perhaps not the £350 million per week - or whatever the infamous banner ad' said - but 'every little helps' as they say.
Tim.

 

[forker]

Yep, and being net beneficiaries from the budget for the longest time.
Anyway, I won't bother boring anyone with the figures. They can all argue amongst themselves.
We're off and good riddance.

Socialism across the EU cannot work if they don't have access to "other peoples money", so now we are leaving, it will be up to Germany to finance all of it. See how long that lasts ! [emoji38]

I suspect remoaners will die trying to maintain single market access and don't write off these idiots looking to make payments to keep it.

 

[sminicooper]

The Achilles heel of the EU is its socialist principle: its members think they should be able to get more out than what they put in. Just another example of a fundamental flaw in socialism. That's why the EU will eventually fail – and most likely after the Germans have spent a fortune in propping it up – in order to salve their subconscious guilt complex relating to why the EU came into being in the first place.

Now is the right time for UK to jump ship.

 

[counter_violent]

I suspect remoaners will die trying to maintain single market access and don't write off these idiots looking to make payments to keep it.

I'm pretty hopeful that May has a decent grasp of what is and what is not acceptable as far as the EU goes.

Also, the govt appears to be talking the talk as far as bilateral trade deals are concerned. If we have some joy with the US, then I'm convinced other countries will be battering the door down to become our new best buddies.

Lets face it, the EU is in terminal decline. More people are coming to realise it, albeit slowly !

 

[Splitlink]

Hi Split',
I think you may have misunderstood the reason why the Brexiteers voted to leave. In no small measure, it's because the U.K. is supporting the EU and not the other way around. They (the EU) needs us a whole lot more than we need them. Look at the mess the railways are in at the moment - particularly when compared to Spain. I'll be taking the train from Malaga to Seville in a few weeks time and I can predict with 100% confidence that it will depart on time, arrive on time and cost a fraction of what a journey of the same distance would cost here in the U.K. All those that voted leave know why this is so. I'm not taking anything away from Spain and the Spanish - I love 'em both - but we can't keep putting our hands in our pockets for the EU when our own house is falling down around us. I think it's the EU who will need to adapt or die - we'll be just fine when we're finally cut free.

Tim.

Hi,Tim, thanks for the post.


I've found this , by The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...n-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

How anyone can blame Europe for the appalling state of British railways is astonishing, to be frank!

Please, someone, come up with something better than that! It's not, just, Spain that is better and cheaper than the UK, in this matter. It is all of Europe.

17% of a person's 27,000 pound salary on a monthly season ticket!!!

Frankly, I don't know what to say!

 

[counter_violent]

Hi,Tim, thanks for the post.


I've found this , by The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...n-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

How anyone can blame Europe for the appalling state of British railways is astonishing, to be frank!

Please, someone, come up with something better than that! It's not, just, Spain that is better and cheaper than the UK, in this matter. It is all of Europe.

17% of a person's 27,000 pound salary on a monthly season ticket!!!

Frankly, I don't know what to say!

Well you could say. Thanks for the last 40 yrs contributions to Spains budget, but we understand now that we must be responsible and finance everything ourselves.

 

[barjon]

The Achilles heel of the EU is its socialist principle: its members think they should be able to get more out than what they put in. Just another example of a fundamental flaw in socialism. That's why the EU will eventually fail – and most likely after the Germans have spent a fortune in propping it up – in order to salve their subconscious guilt complex relating to why the EU came into being in the first place.

Now is the right time for UK to jump ship.

The economic advantages for Germany of operating with an artificially low exchange rate (wonder what the Deutschmark/Drachma rate would be today - not parity I'd bet) are such that they'll probably be willing to spend a lot more before calling quits.

 

[Splitlink]

Well you could say. Thanks for the last 40 yrs contributions to Spains budget, but we understand now that we must be responsible and finance everything ourselves.

cv, I'm, terribly sorry that we have been living off your backs for the last 40 years.

I think that it is better for us for you to be out. You'll have to find someone else to blame.

But let me say this. I left the UK, in 1963, well before UK thought of joining Europe and, it seems to me, that the country has not changed much since.

 

[sminicooper]

cv, I'm, terribly sorry that we have been living off your backs for the last 40 years.

I think that it is better for us for you to be out. You'll have to find someone else to blame.

But let me say this. I left the UK, in 1963, well before UK thought of joining Europe and, it seems to me, that the country has not changed much since.

Split, my Old China – you've got to be joking!

In 1963 we were in economic decline – especially in comparison to our competitors, dominated by the unions, class-ridden, career/job access decided by your pecking order in the social system, didn't want anything to do with "Johnny foreigner" and still hankering after an almost extinct empire.

It got even worse in the 1970s.

 

[timsk]

. . .How anyone can blame Europe for the appalling state of British railways is astonishing, to be frank!. . .

Hi Split',
I don't understand why you're astonished or, even, what it is that you're astonished about.

If a country (i.e. the U.K.) pays into the EU twice as much as it gets back - then there will be two direct consequences. Firstly, someone else will benefit from our contribution (e.g. Spain's infrastructure) and, secondly, the U.K. will have less money to spend on its own infrastructure projects (e.g. upgrading our railways), the NHS, education etc., etc. Surely there's nothing astonishing about any of that? On the contrary, it's perfectly logical and it's why - in part at least - the leave vote won and why our railways (amongst other things) will be better off when we do. It may take years, possibly decades, but the cumulative savings over the long term and lack of EU bureaucracy will, eventually, have a net positive impact on the U.K. and its infrastructure.
Tim.

 

[Splitlink]

Hi Split',
I'm don't understand why you're astonished or, even, what it is that you're astonished about.

If a country (i.e. the U.K.) pays into the EU twice as much as it gets back - then there will be two direct consequences. Firstly, someone else will benefit from our contribution (e.g. Spain's infrastructure) and, secondly, the U.K. will have less money to spend on its own infrastructure projects (e.g. upgrading our railways), the NHS, education etc., etc. Surely there's nothing astonishing about any of that? On the contrary, it's perfectly logical and it's why - in part at least - the leave vote won and why our railways (amongst other things) will be better off when we do. It may take years, possibly decades, but the cumulative savings over the long term and lack of EU bureaucracy will, eventually, have a net positive impact on the U.K. and its infrastructure.
Tim.

Could you tell me what the UK contribution is, that it is saving per year?

 

[timsk]

Could you tell me what the UK contribution is, that it is saving per year?

Hi Split',
Figures vary according to who one references so, in an attempt to be fair, I'll take those published by the IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) who were strongly in favour of us remaining in the EU. According to them, the saving for the U.K. is likely to be "about £8 billion a year". Hopefully, you don't think it's too astonishing to imagine that £8 billion year on year could be put to good use on our railways, schools or hospitals etc!

Tim.

 

[Splitlink]

Daily Express says 10 billion.

Frankly, that is a derisory excuse. You are going to spend 55 billion to get the HS line into London. God knows how much on a new runway. Nuclear aircraft carriers, power station--anything that is prestigious but 17 billion for the nation's potholes? I bet that stays at the bottom of the list for some time.

Sooner, or later, you will not be able to sell your bonds.

How often do you get a rubbish collection. We get one every night and there are three or four bins on every block. Come to Barcelona and show me a pothole. How much do you pay thhe chemist for your medicine? I pay the VAT, comes to less than 2 euros per month.

The list goes on and our proportion of 10 billion would not cover it. You are being conned out of the EU.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi Split',
Figures vary according to who one references so, in an attempt to be fair, I'll take those published by the IFS (Institute for Fiscal Studies) who were strongly in favour of us remaining in the EU. According to them, the saving for the U.K. is likely to be "about £8 billion a year". Hopefully, you don't think it's too astonishing to imagine that £8 billion year on year could be put to good use on our railways, schools or hospitals etc!

Tim.

You'll likely be surprised at how quickly that 8b disappears and no one will know exactly where it went.

 

[counter_violent]

Daily Express says 10 billion.

Frankly, that is a derisory excuse. You are going to spend 55 billion to get the HS line into London. God knows how much on a new runway. Nuclear aircraft carriers, power station--anything that is prestigious but 17 billion for the nation's potholes? I bet that stays at the bottom of the list for some time.

Sooner, or later, you will not be able to sell your bonds.

How often do you get a rubbish collection. We get one every night and there are three or four bins on every block. Come to Barcelona and show me a pothole. How much do you pay thhe chemist for your medicine? I pay the VAT, comes to less than 2 euros per month.

The list goes on and our proportion of 10 billion would not cover it. You are being conned out of the EU.

Of course, all that will change as reality dawns. I wonder how Spain will cope when unemployment increases even further. I suppose the millenials will come to realise that the baby boomers squandered all the wealth by living beyond their means.

 

[Splitlink]

Of course, all that will change as reality dawns. I wonder how Spain will cope when unemployment increases even further. I suppose the millenials will come to realise that the baby boomers squandered all the wealth by living beyond their means.

What surprises me is that you know that unemployment is going to increase.

It might, but so might yours. I might have known that the Daily Express would say 10 billion, when Tim tells us that it is, probably, nearer 8 billion.

While I am in a ranting state of mind, I might as well add that I do not believe that rubbish about being governed by Westminster, either.

I repeat. I believe that the UK is being conned out of EU in an attempt to break the union up.

 

[counter_violent]

What surprises me is that you know that unemployment is going to increase.

It might, but so might yours. I might have known that the Daily Express would say 10 billion, when Tim tells us that it is, probably, nearer 8 billion.

While I am in a ranting state of mind, I might as well add that I do not believe that rubbish about being governed by Westminster, either.

I repeat. I believe that the UK is being conned out of EU in an attempt to break the union up.

Conned by whom ? Very difficult to con all of the people all of the time. But not at all difficult to con all of them some of the time or some of them all of the time.

The only con I know about was the One that lasted 40 yrs, perpetuated by spineless politicians who would never ask the people what they thought.

 

[dbphoenix]

The only con I know about was the One that lasted 40 yrs, perpetuated by spineless politicians who would never ask the people what they thought.

That's what elections are for

 

[timsk]

. . .It might, but so might yours. I might have known that the Daily Express would say 10 billion, when Tim tells us that it is, probably, nearer 8 billion.

No Split', Tim does not say it will be £8 billion - the Institute for Fiscal Studies - a heavily pro-remain institution - says it will be £8 billion. Of course, if you'd prefer to believe an unattributed reference to a tabloid - that's your prerogative.

 

[counter_violent]

That's what elections are for

Elections are meaningless when none of the parties offer what the people want.
Cameron was forced into offering the referendum