Brexit and the Consequences

barjon said:
Don‘t disagree but it would take a seismic shift in the political thinking of each individual country for them give up their sovereignty. Without their willingness it will merely remain a pipe dream since there is no way of forcing countries to comply.
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The EU is almost there, it has almost superceded the national governments of member states and has completely done so in specific broad policy areas. It hasn't taken a seismic shift in consciousness at all, its all just happened incrementally and always with economic advantage to pave the way. The seismic shift that has taken place is the move towards Euro-scepticism.
 
tomorton said:
The EU is almost there, it has almost superceded the national governments of member states and has completely done so in specific broad policy areas. It hasn't taken a seismic shift in consciousness at all, its all just happened incrementally and always with economic advantage to pave the way. The seismic shift that has taken place is the move towards Euro-scepticism.
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You could also argue that the very title “member states” rather than “member countries” gives the game away! Nonetheless countries can agree to be bound by common policy and law without surrendering their identity as a separate country. It’s not like being annexed by force and - as we have just demonstrated - countries cannot be held in it against their will.
 
barjon said:
You could also argue that the very title “member states” rather than “member countries” gives the game away! Nonetheless countries can agree to be bound by common policy and law without surrendering their identity as a separate country. It’s not like being annexed by force and - as we have just demonstrated - countries cannot be held in it against their will.
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I still feel that the government of a country that surrenders law-making and policy-making to an external body is acting without legitimate authority. It is not a government.

The EU is a transitional process anyway, en route to the USE. Its a pathway, not a destination. So all the member states can feel they retain their independence. The member states, like the fish in a fish tank that's falling off a high building, can look around and see that they can still swim from this end of the tank to that end and they can still eat when they want and whatever else: so they can always say this tank is just dandy. But the tank is still falling.......
 
The Germans and French will be facing enormous bills bailing out the rest and their own it seems. We may have escaped that disaster by leaving just in time.
 
At a fundamental, I am surprised with some of the arguments that are being put through by Brexiteers and comments about the EU.

The way I'm receiving these snippets and bites of remarks is very much that Brexiteers feel threatened by effectively global events and changes and trying to shift their positions.

These threats do not feel real to me but for some reasons Brexiteers perceive it to be so. On the contrary Brexiteers fears to me are opportunities. To talk in terms of war, surrender and disasters are an indication of this unhealthy state of mind. I see adventures, travels and new Worlds to explore, taste and conquer.


The other side of this debate maybe the usual question about who gets what - allocation of resources. Some have done well and others less so. Changing the platform or dynamics they feel can't make their positions much worse then what it is now so why not. The saying jumping out of the frying pan and into fire comes to mind but I'm sure that's just my opinion.

As it happens I'm trying to think about what has happened thus far and can't see anything. Show time is approaching fast when the curtains will open and I'm expecting some spectacular performance from the Brexiteers and aka Tories. (y)

On the other hand there are rotten tomatoes... (n)


:D
 
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counter_violent said:
🤭

Well, you nearly had me there until I realised he's not even left skool yet.
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Damned teenagers!

They get everywhere these days - some of them even trade...and rumour has it, occasionally profitably to boot. Where are all the old fuckers when you need them?...oh, I remember now (that early onset senility's a bugger) they're breathing their last in our fine NHS.
 
cantagril said:
Damned teenagers!

They get everywhere these days - some of them even trade...and rumour has it, occasionally profitably to boot. Where are all the old fuckers when you need them?...oh, I remember now (that early onset senility's a bugger) they're breathing their last in our fine NHS.
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Yeah damned teenagers. I have One sat in his bedroom thinking he's going to be the next internet sensation on twitch.tv
Dreamer!

And the fine NHS and all the quango's who oversee policy would do well to intervene before people need ventilators and start looking at countries who are offering up evidence of experimental treatments which disrupt the virus before it becomes so severe that they need intubation.
 
counter_violent said:
Yeah damned teenagers. I have One sat in his bedroom thinking he's going to be the next internet sensation on twitch.tv
Dreamer!
....and the tragedy is that they grow up and become....us:)
And the fine NHS and all the quango's who oversee policy would do well to intervene before people need ventilators and start looking at countries who are offering up evidence of experimental treatments which disrupt the virus before it becomes so severe that they need intubation.
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As I understand matters, the NHS (and everybody else) are indeed looking at alternatives - or straws to grasp, for the curmudgeonly - but are somewhat reluctant to indulge in Trumpery by saying they've got the solution when actually they overheard somebody talking about it on an as yet crowded tube train.

It has been pointed out on this thread elsewhere that vaccination is not the only treatment.. though it is definitely a desirable long-term goal. Other treatments will be discovered or rediscovered in the meantime.
Watch this space..cough cough💊
 
Atilla said:
At a fundamental, I am surprised with some of the arguments that are being put through by Brexiteers and comments about the EU.
Why am I not surprised that you're surprised?
The way I'm receiving these snippets and bites of remarks is very much that Brexiteers feel threatened by effectively global events and changes and trying to shift their positions.
Isn't everybody though?? The mindless rush to globalisation and the very premature drive to turn Europe into a federation is now more generally recognised by folk to be the really crass idea it was to begin with. OTOH, the equally stupid "Pull up the drawbridge" movement, at the same time draining the moat is (for those people who chose not to wear a codpiece whilst standing in it) becoming steadily more embarrassing as the waters recede .
These threats do not feel real to me but for some reasons Brexiteers perceive it to be so. On the contrary Brexiteers fears to me are opportunities. To talk in terms of war, surrender and disasters are an indication of this unhealthy state of mind. I see adventures, travels and new Worlds to explore, taste and conquer.
Don't tell me! let me guess: "...and to boldly go where no man has gone before"??
The other side of this debate maybe the usual question about who gets what - allocation of resources. Some have done well and others less so. Changing the platform or dynamics they feel can't make their positions much worse then what it is now so why not. The saying jumping out of the frying pan and into fire comes to mind but I'm sure that's just my opinion.
It is.;)
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"As it happens I'm trying to think about what has happened thus far and can't see anything. Show time is approaching fast when the curtains will open and I'm expecting some spectacular performance from the Brexiteers and aka Tories. "



It's life Att'..but not as we know it.

...or maybe just: 'twas ever thus.

Take yer pick.
 
trendie said:
The Italians mentioned the War. You're not supposed to mention the War.
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As I understand post-war etiquette, it's alright to mention the war as long as you lost. It only becomes boorish when you were on the winning side. Sticky wicket for Neutrals.

Then there's the thorny question of the Resistance - in France, for example, by the mid-70s the number of people claiming to have been in the resistance was slightly greater than the war-time population. As Mr Hartley might have said: France is a foreign country; they do things differently there.
 
Positive thinking you say!!!

If you close your eyes and really wish hard you might let off a fart if you are lucky but that's about all you get done.

:ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
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