Brexit and the Consequences

[MasterOfCoin]

I try to stay mostly out of the 'brexit' thread to retain my sanity.

But I just simply can't not comment on the whole 'immigration' nonsense.

We're all bloody immigrants here, period.

Much like the USofA, Greater Britain and it's Isles have been populated over the centuries by wave after wave of rampaging immigrants. It's just been going on rather longer on this side of the pond.

It's a universal characteristic of each successive wave of invaders that they then in turn vehemently oppose the next lot to arrive. We have to look after our own and we don't want them coming here and using all our stuff 'cos we need it, etc.

Which is only perfectly natural and just the way things always work out to repel perceived threats or change.

Mind you, as a result of always being completely inept at preventing such new invasions, we have managed to assimilate one of the richest languages on the planet, with often dozens of alternate words for the same bloody thing.

Ultimately, the ones better at killing any other people who come along tend to be in charge for a while up until some bunch even better at killing than they are turn up ... and take over.

It was ever thus ...

 

[counter_violent]

Why do you think that Pat?

So you feel EU and UK could still be better together if EU+26 member states compromise to UK vision of how it should all hang together? Or is there another explanation?

I feel EU will be better without the gobby likes of Farage and Euroseptic p1ss takers. As the saying goes close the door behind on your way out.

I wouldn't be surprised if we have another extension... We'll get to see soon enough how hard boiled Boris really is?

I'm pretty sure we weren't taking the piss. Au contraire, we meant every word of it.
I can't see any possibility of an extension. It seems quite clear that either the EU agree to UK terms or they will find themselves with a No Deal situation. (beggars can't be choosers)

I would say that there is an even stronger possibility going forward that the Covid19 saga will bring in to sharp focus the whole point of the EU and it's very survival.

 

[Signalcalc]

I try to stay mostly out of the 'brexit' thread to retain my sanity.

But I just simply can't not comment on the whole 'immigration' nonsense.

We're all bloody immigrants here, period.

Much like the USofA, Greater Britain and it's Isles have been populated over the centuries by wave after wave of rampaging immigrants. It's just been going on rather longer on this side of the pond.

It's a universal characteristic of each successive wave of invaders that they then in turn vehemently oppose the next lot to arrive. We have to look after our own and we don't want them coming here and using all our stuff 'cos we need it, etc.

Which is only perfectly natural and just the way things always work out to repel perceived threats or change.

Mind you, as a result of always being completely inept at preventing such new invasions, we have managed to assimilate one of the richest languages on the planet, with often dozens of alternate words for the same bloody thing.

Ultimately, the ones better at killing any other people who come along tend to be in charge for a while up until some bunch even better at killing than they are turn up ... and take over.

It was ever thus ...

You are referring to uncontrolled immigration, whereas the rest of us want it controlled, people that propose open borders never seem to get this point and always bang on about 'we're all immigrants' therefore........it was ever thus.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

You are referring to uncontrolled immigration, whereas the rest of us want it controlled, people that propose open borders never seem to get this point and always bang on about 'we're all immigrants' therefore........it was ever thus.

No, I'm referring to the historically accurate fact that we are all immigrants or the descendants thereof.

I made no proposals at all.

& I most certainly did not express any opinion on whether it should be controlled or not.

I have no objection to your stating that it should, in your opinion, be controlled.

What I object very strongly to is your assertion that this differs from my own opinion, precisely because I have said no such thing.

Kindly express your own views without making assumptions about those held by others.

Thank-You.

😷

 

[Signalcalc]

No, I'm referring to the historically accurate fact that we are all immigrants or the descendants thereof.

I made no proposals at all.

& I most certainly did not express any opinion on whether it should be controlled or not.

I have no objection to your stating that it should, in your opinion, be controlled.

What I object very strongly to is your assertion that this differs from my own opinion, precisely because I have said no such thing.

Kindly express your own views without making assumptions about those held by others.

Thank-You.

😷

I couldn't possibly know what your opinion is on the matter, never mind make an assumption or assertion about it! Unless you have stated it in a previous post somewhere perhaps?

To be clear, what I was referring to was the often heard phrases being used to justify open borders, quite a feature of Remoaners and Europhiles.

 

[MasterOfCoin]

Unless you have stated it in a previous post somewhere perhaps?

Nope, I most certainly have not.

What I have done is to wryly observe that an open door immigration policy is rather popular with immigrants.
Which is a satirical comment, not an expressed opinion.

But I'm glad you've made clear what you meant to say and that it was the phrases as used by others that you were referring to.

 

[Atilla]

Non - EU - migrants

If only UK could control her own borders instead of blabber mouth talking b0ll0cks about non-EU migrants.

How many trade deals have the UK made?

How many non-EU trade deals have the UK started?

How many non-EU trade deals are the UK planning?

Countries like that fictitious EU migrants queuing up to get into the UK are just simply queuing up to make new trade deals with the UK.

 

[Signalcalc]

Non - EU - migrants

View attachment 277273

If only UK could control her own borders instead of blabber mouth talking b0ll0cks about non-EU migrants.

How many trade deals have the UK made?

How many non-EU trade deals have the UK started?

How many non-EU trade deals are the UK planning?

Countries like that fictitious EU migrants queuing up to get into the UK are just simply queuing up to make new trade deals with the UK.

View attachment 277274

Exactly, we need full control of the borders with a fully controlled immigration policy in force.

This govt cant even test people still arriving on flights and doesn't bother to quarantine them as they arrive, what hope of controlling immigration. It hardly deports illegals either by all accounts.

 

[tomorton]

A country without borders is not a country. It follows that a country with no border transit policy and enforcement is likewise not a country. A country may agree with other countries to follow an similar or even identical border policy, but a country's government simply has no right to surrender the formulation of its border policies to any other body than the country's government and legislature.

 

[Signalcalc]

A country without borders is not a country. It follows that a country with no border transit policy and enforcement is likewise not a country. A country may agree with other countries to follow an similar or even identical border policy, but a country's government simply has no right to surrender the formulation of its border policies to any other body than the country's government and legislature.

Accountable to the people within that country's border.

 

[Atilla]

A country without borders is not a country. It follows that a country with no border transit policy and enforcement is likewise not a country. A country may agree with other countries to follow an similar or even identical border policy, but a country's government simply has no right to surrender the formulation of its border policies to any other body than the country's government and legislature.

Agree about the lack of enforcement of border patrol and customs. The rest is just rubbish!

Are you suggesting you and other people do not recognise what the UK borders are?

Who doesn't recognise the UK on a map?

 

[counter_violent]

It was very convenient for the UK imho to be so close to a large market like the EU but that foolish Merkel etc. would insist on greater integration, unlimited immigration etc. which was just too much for the UK to stomach. We and they are both the losers on the split but too late now I guess.

Agree about the lack of enforcement of border patrol and customs. The rest is just rubbish!

Are suggesting you do not recognise what the UK borders are?

Who doesn't recognise the UK on a map?

No, he's suggesting that if border controls are not enforced, then you don't have an effective border.

 

[Atilla]

No, he's suggesting that if border controls are not enforced, then you don't have an effective border.

Well I agree with that.

So why haven't the very bodies ie Conservative party who call for all this control not doing so? FGS they've been in power long enough.

 

[tomorton]

Agree about the lack of enforcement of border patrol and customs. The rest is just rubbish!

Are you suggesting you and other people do not recognise what the UK borders are?

Who doesn't recognise the UK on a map?

What I meant was the UK government attempted to negate the existence of the UK as an independent country when it surrendered border policy to the EU.

 

[Atilla]

What I meant was the UK government attempted to negate the existence of the UK as an independent country when it surrendered border policy to the EU.

A mutual agreement is not a surrender.

Free movement of people is only for Europeans.

Hungary has closed borders to refugees on a number of occasions.

Merkel or Germany doesn't set EU policy.


Aren't you getting carried away here dear Tomorton. You are always cool and free thinking. Brexit language of delusion and repetitive BS seems to be clouding your usual brevity and good judgement.


This word surrender was used a lot by BJ if I recall and it means jack diddly squat, but manages to rise people into thinking we are at war with the EU.

 

[tomorton]

A mutual agreement is not a surrender.

Free movement of people is only for Europeans.

Hungary has closed borders to refugees on a number of occasions.

Merkel or Germany doesn't set EU policy.


Aren't you getting carried away here dear Tomorton. You are always cool and free thinking. Brexit language of delusion and repetitive BS seems to be clouding your usual brevity and good judgement.


This word surrender was used a lot by BJ if I recall and it means jack diddly squat, but manages to rise people into thinking we are at war with the EU.

I stand by it. A country has borders. Without borders, its just an administrative region. Without borders its not a country.

The EU is merely a transitional format en route to a united states of Europe. This was the openly and proudly stated objective of the founders of the European coal and steel group and the EC and the EEC and remains the fond ambition of true EUrocrats and Europhiles.

I don't mind them coming to incorrect political decisions, that's their right, but I object to the citizenry of my country being lied to about the ultimate aim of the EU.

 

[barjon]

I stand by it. A country has borders. Without borders, its just an administrative region. Without borders its not a country.

The EU is merely a transitional format en route to a united states of Europe. This was the openly and proudly stated objective of the founders of the European coal and steel group and the EC and the EEC and remains the fond ambition of true EUrocrats and Europhiles.

I don't mind them coming to incorrect political decisions, that's their right, but I object to the citizenry of my country being lied to about the ultimate aim of the EU.

It may well be the ambition of some, but I don’t think there is any member state who would be prepared to give up their sovereignty. So, without forceful annexation (war) there is no means to achieve the creation of a new country (USE) and there is no means of forcing it.

 

[counter_violent]

It may well be the ambition of some, but I don’t think there is any member state who would be prepared to give up their sovereignty. So, without forceful annexation (war) there is no means to achieve the creation of a new country (USE) and there is no means of forcing it.

Brits were never fooled by the EU and it's policy implementation by stealth.
There's no chance we will be part of the nonsense going forward.

The logic to my mind is clear. We must thank remoaners for this.
They made it so difficult to finally leave, that the memory and the struggle will be clear and entrenched in peoples minds. Had it been easy to leave, then it could be said that going back would be just as easy.

EU policy by stealth - Google Suche

 

[tomorton]

It may well be the ambition of some, but I don’t think there is any member state who would be prepared to give up their sovereignty. So, without forceful annexation (war) there is no means to achieve the creation of a new country (USE) and there is no means of forcing it.

The creation of the USE is exactly the point and has always been the long-term objective of the European bodies culminating the current EU. This has not been a secret agenda but a proudly stated political goal.

It has suited our national politicians from Ted Heath onwards and no doubt many on the continent to simply keep quiet on this, so as to avoid immediate opposition to long-term European harmonisation.

 

[barjon]

The creation of the USE is exactly the point and has always been the long-term objective of the European bodies culminating the current EU. This has not been a secret agenda but a proudly stated political goal.

It has suited our national politicians from Ted Heath onwards and no doubt many on the continent to simply keep quiet on this, so as to avoid immediate opposition to long-term European harmonisation.

Don‘t disagree but it would take a seismic shift in the political thinking of each individual country for them give up their sovereignty. Without their willingness it will merely remain a pipe dream since there is no way of forcing countries to comply.