Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

Tut, tut, Tim. Here you go again with belief without evidence or assumed evidence. “Clearly, the EU is falling apart at the seams. Evidence? Look at their response (or lack of it) to Covid 19”.
Unlike ourselves who initially adopted the “herd immunity” approach other EU countries adopted the EU co-ordinated approach which we have now come to a bit belatedly. The EU also have a centrally co-ordinated effort to obtain essential and protective equipment and medical supplies - ventilators, masks etc etc. We were invited to join but refused.

Whilst I respect your so far un-evidenced view that we will be better off out of the EU I do think you should be a tad more open minded about what goes on in there.

Civil Service code for "fek this yer on yer own" 😷

 

[Signalcalc]

Tut, tut, Tim. Here you go again with belief without evidence or assumed evidence. “Clearly, the EU is falling apart at the seams. Evidence? Look at their response (or lack of it) to Covid 19”.
Unlike ourselves who initially adopted the “herd immunity” approach other EU countries adopted the EU co-ordinated approach which we have now come to a bit belatedly. The EU also have a centrally co-ordinated effort to obtain essential and protective equipment and medical supplies - ventilators, masks etc etc. We were invited to join but refused.

Whilst I respect your so far un-evidenced view that we will be better off out of the EU I do think you should be a tad more open minded about what goes on in there.

Lack of response from central EU politburo has resulted in individual member states taking an ad-hoc approach to shutting down borders. And for good reason, if states didn't take matters into their own hands the borders would most likely still be ordered open!

 

[cantagril]

Hi cant' - answers in red.

My answers to your answers in Berlue:

"Is the current fiasco that is still unfolding in the UK because we are -

a) as yet still in the EU
b) because we are about to leave the EU
c) because we are about to leave the EU and it's not happening fast enough
d) what current fiasco?

As the saying goes: if you can't see then I can't explain.

...furthermore, in view of the timescale that it has taken to construct the EU and the UK's relationship (40+ years) how long will it take before we see durable effects as a result of the UK's departure and the ramifications of such:

1) A few months
2) a few years
3) a few decades
4) Now - we're already enjoying them! Clearly, the EU is falling apart at the seams. Evidence? Look at their response (or lack of it) to Covid 19 and their attempts to agree future budget contributions.

I said "durable" and asked about "ramifications" and you appear to think that what's happening now is the nett result for the long term???!!! I do hope that's tongue in cheek.

...and because I'm on a roll (Swiss of course... non-EU) do we expect that the impending ex or im-plosion of the EU will have:

w) Given the option, would you rather get off the Titanic before it hit the iceberg when no one else wants to leave or after it hits it when everyone wants to leave?
x) No negative effects on the UK
y) No effect at all
z) Will be the best thing since choccy biccies

Not what I was getting at...but to continue with your analogy, we're still on the ship and will be so in one way or another for some time and anyway my questions were not about that but the effect.

Extra marks will be given for correct spelling."

Altogether a poor effort but unsurprising in view of this student's history of persistent tardiness and inattention to coursework. Taking into account the excellent spelling I have no hesitation in awarding a solid 10%.

 

[cantagril]

None of the above.


None of the above


Three mi lord, three decades should see us back in.




Assuming they'll let us back in of course...

Don't keep me in suspenders: What do you think? Assuming that you are indeed thinking...

 

[timsk]

. . . Whilst I respect your so far un-evidenced view that we will be better off out of the EU I do think you should be a tad more open minded about what goes on in there.

Hi Jon,
I'm not as anti-EU as you might think and I deny the accusation about not being open minded in the strongest terms possible! The fact is (evidence, if you prefer) that the EU is a great big lumbering bureaucratic machine that has all the swiftness and dexterity of a sloth. That's not a criticism per se - I wouldn't expect it to be able to respond to the crisis with the speed that individual sovereign governments can. Their relative lack of action (in spite of your defence of them) shows why they're past their sell by date and, if ever there was a case for individual countries controlling their own borders, then this pandemic is surely it. It further illustrates how the EUs 'one size fits all' approach is completely inappropriate, as the circumstances of each country varies from one to the next. I am very confidence that when the Coronavirus dust finally settles (soon, hopefully), that many countries will question the value of remaining part of the EU. After all, if they were squabbling over budget contributions prior to the crisis, gawd knows what they'll do after it. Will Germany, France - and Italy especially - want to contribute extra funds to make up the shortfall once we leave? Call that 'assumed evidence' if you want; it makes little difference to the answer.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Don't keep me in suspenders: What do you think? Assuming that you are indeed thinking...

I'll have a stab at this.

He's thinking.........

How on earth did we allow a bunch of unsophisticated northern monkeys to blindside us with such ease.
Why they no listen. We are the experts.

https://www.heywoodhistory.com/2015/11/hey-hey-were-monkey-town.htm

 

[timsk]

. . . Altogether a poor effort but unsurprising in view of this student's history of persistent tardiness and inattention to coursework. Taking into account the excellent spelling I have no hesitation in awarding a solid 10%.

. . . Such a low mark suggests that the 'tutor' is prejudiced against the student and completely fails either to understand or appreciate his wit and wisdom!

 

[cantagril]

We need to get a grip and crack on, in the same spirit as being shown in the Coronavirus crisis.

Well said CV!

Indeed, we need much more of that spirit that served us so well in the past: The charge of the Light Brigade, The Somme, Dunkirk, Suez.

I like it - "Get a grip and crack on" - over the top when the whistle blows and on to glory.

 

[cantagril]

. . . Such a low mark suggests that the 'tutor' is prejudiced against the student and completely fails either to understand or appreciate his wit and wisdom!

Be off with you!

I find no other suitable course of action save rustication.

"You have hissed all my mystery lectures, and were caught fighting a liar in the quad. Having tasted two worms, you will leave by the next town drain"

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
I'm not as anti-EU as you might think and I deny the accusation about not being open minded in the strongest terms possible! The fact is (evidence, if you prefer) that the EU is a great big lumbering bureaucratic machine that has all the swiftness and dexterity of a sloth. That's not a criticism per se - I wouldn't expect it to be able to respond to the crisis with the speed that individual sovereign governments can. Their relative lack of action (in spite of your defence of them) shows why they're past their sell by date and, if ever there was a case for individual countries controlling their own borders, then this pandemic is surely it. It further illustrates how the EUs 'one size fits all' approach is completely inappropriate, as the circumstances of each country varies from one to the next. I am very confidence that when the Coronavirus dust finally settles (soon, hopefully), that many countries will question the value of remaining part of the EU. After all, if they were squabbling over budget contributions prior to the crisis, gawd knows what they'll do after it. Will Germany, France - and Italy especially - want to contribute extra funds to make up the shortfall once we leave? Call that 'assumed evidence' if you want; it makes little difference to the answer.
Tim.

Well, where do I start. On the basis of my friendship with a reasonably high level French bureaucrat I understand that the “lock down” approach adopted by EU countries was the approach promulgated by EU in their early advice. Clearly, it could only be advice since they cannot act directly in any member state. Their early initiative for the centrally co-ordinated effort to get the necessary equipment etc (beyond me why we refused to join this initiative ) is another example of action somewhat faster than the lumbering sloth you would have us believe.

Why you should be very confident that many countries will question the value of remaining part of the EU can only be a Tim belief rather than any evidence based conclusion. Just because they were squabbling over budget contributions (who doesn’t squabble over budgets!!) doesn’t cut it. It maybe that they will recognise that pulling together supported by central initiatives (including €150 billion already set aside and €720 billion quantative easing) is the best way forward.

 

[Signalcalc]

I'll have a stab at this.

He's thinking.........

How on earth did we allow a bunch of unsophisticated northern monkeys to blindside us with such ease.
Why they no listen. We are the experts.

https://www.heywoodhistory.com/2015/11/hey-hey-were-monkey-town.htm

That should be 'fackin Norvern munkees'.

 

[Signalcalc]

Well, where do I start. On the basis of my friendship with a reasonably high level French bureaucrat I understand that the “lock down” approach adopted by EU countries was the approach promulgated by EU in their early advice. Clearly, it could only be advice since they cannot act directly in any member state. Their early initiative for the centrally co-ordinated effort to get the necessary equipment etc (beyond me why we refused to join this initiative ) is another example of action somewhat faster than the lumbering sloth you would have us believe.

Why you should be very confident that many countries will question the value of remaining part of the EU can only be a Tim belief rather than any evidence based conclusion. Just because they were squabbling over budget contributions (who doesn’t squabble over budgets!!) doesn’t cut it. It maybe that they will recognise that pulling together supported by central initiatives (including €150 billion already set aside and €720 billion quantative easing) is the best way forward.

Albania looks set to embark on it's own tinpot military dictatorship, with full on lockdown lead by Soros and B-Liar.

Having said that, now we have snap checkpoints, it's not going to be much longer before we are there too, probably also lead by Soros and B-Liar with a dose of Gordon 'who the fuck is Alice' Brown thrown in for good measure.

 

[Atilla]

Brexiteers fleet around between the EU being dictatorial to not being there to provide leadership.

Countries can manage their own affairs and have their own parliaments.

That's the problem with the Brexiteers position WAH WHA WHA WHA YAP YAP YAP YAP talk and criticise the hoofs of a donkey.

When it comes to delivering acting on your own, not much cop. What have Brexiteers delivered thus far. Naff all.

UK is in no different position to any other member state. Just a tad behind and hopefully learning from the Chinese on how to deal with it.

 

[timsk]

. . . Why you should be very confident that many countries will question the value of remaining part of the EU can only be a Tim belief rather than any evidence based conclusion. . .

Hi Jon,
Kind of you to credit me with original thought. Sadly, that's not true in this (and most) other cases. Perhaps you missed the video by 'Demirep' that I posted earlier in the thread? Fear not, there are plenty of others that cover it - as in this example from Carl Benjamin. Enjoy . . .

 

[Pat494]

IF the Europeans in the shape of Barmier and Junkers hadn't been so rigid in their beliefs of integration and immigration all would be well. Instead Britain and I suspect the EU will be badly hurt in the coming years.

 

[Atilla]

IF the Europeans in the shape of Barmier and Junkers hadn't been so rigid in their beliefs of integration and immigration all would be well. Instead Britain and I suspect the EU will be badly hurt in the coming years.

Why do you think that Pat?

So you feel EU and UK could still be better together if EU+26 member states compromise to UK vision of how it should all hang together? Or is there another explanation?

I feel EU will be better without the gobby likes of Farage and Euroseptic p1ss takers. As the saying goes close the door behind on your way out.

I wouldn't be surprised if we have another extension... We'll get to see soon enough how hard boiled Boris really is?

 

[Signalcalc]

CoronaBoris, hadn't thought of that one till now.
CoronaEU is like an Englishman asking for water in French, Coronaeau

 

[Signalcalc]

I think Brexit was largely decided by people who had a no personal interest but just a prejudice against immigration etc.

I pulled this one in from the Covid thread so it is less likely to pollute that thread and I think it deserves some comment as it raises questions that may have been done to death, or not, either way, I can see that the Brexit thread will not die as it is now being mooted to delay Brexit based on Covid, so this thread may live longer than ever!

To call people that are anti-immigration prejudiced is quite wrong, it's quite a blanket statement. On what basis are they prejudiced? Do they not have an opinion, an informed opinion? Do they not have reasons to be anti-immigration based on knowledge, statistics, personal experience maybe?

Why would you believe that people who are anti-immigration have no personal interest in Brexit other than immigration?

If immigration is their only personal interest in Brexit, then is that not reason enough to want Brexit?

 

[Pat494]

Why do you think that Pat?

So you feel EU and UK could still be better together if EU+26 member states compromise to UK vision of how it should all hang together? Or is there another explanation?

I feel EU will be better without the gobby likes of Farage and Euroseptic p1ss takers. As the saying goes close the door behind on your way out.

I wouldn't be surprised if we have another extension... We'll get to see soon enough how hard boiled Boris really is?

It was very convenient for the UK imho to be so close to a large market like the EU but that foolish Merkel etc. would insist on greater integration, unlimited immigration etc. which was just too much for the UK to stomach. We and they are both the losers on the split but too late now I guess.

 

[barjon]

I pulled this one in from the Covid thread so it is less likely to pollute that thread and I think it deserves some comment as it raises questions that may have been done to death, or not, either way, I can see that the Brexit thread will not die as it is now being mooted to delay Brexit based on Covid, so this thread may live longer than ever!

To call people that are anti-immigration prejudiced is quite wrong, it's quite a blanket statement. On what basis are they prejudiced? Do they not have an opinion, an informed opinion? Do they not have reasons to be anti-immigration based on knowledge, statistics, personal experience maybe?

Why would you believe that people who are anti-immigration have no personal interest in Brexit other than immigration?

If immigration is their only personal interest in Brexit, then is that not reason enough to want Brexit?

Immigration may have been the single reason for some people voting to leave, or merely a factor for others, or not all for some regardless of their view on immigration. As you say, so what. I think most will have voted with the future of their country in mind and not just blind prejudice.