Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

You are staring down the barrel of Article 50 cancellation.

Have you got some evidence for this?

Don't get me wrong. I don't object to democracy or the will of the people to be represented in parliament.

We don't get you wrong as you clearly do object to democracy and the will of the people being represented in parliament.

If people like Farage and others want to form a one trick party to take the UK out of the EU they are certainly free to do so.I would hope they can demonstrate the how with what comes after. If British people want to vote for that, then that's also fine. I'll make it my objective to contribute with my utmost endeavours to make it a success. As long as some order and decent due consideration is given to honest debates.

What more is there to debate, we've had 3 years of talking. Oh yes, we still have to talk about EU military unification, something that hasn't yet been debated in parliament, where does that fit into your interpretation of democracy?

I sincerely believe we need to restore UK to an orderly and well working democratic system and this whole shed storm be put to rest as lessons learned from how not to conduct a referendum.

I'm afraid that unless you own the universe, no-one is going to roll the clock back to a time pre-referendum and even if you could, it would make little difference.

We are slowly getting there.

Where?

 

[Signalcalc]

Parliament is though and that's what counts.

Parliament has never been democratic, it took a public referendum to show it for what it is.

You still blabbering about EU...

Power sits with Parliament you should have learned that by now.

It looks like these unconvincing MPs may be about to hand power back to Brussels, a situation that could be easily avoided if they were working for the country.

 

[Signalcalc]

Oh the irony.

The EU is a democratic system is it.

There is no hope for remainers. None at all.

Wasting breath, just as remainers are wasting breath, trying to convince each other otherwise is pointless, all we can do is point out their faulty logic and where they are constantly wrong.

Somehow they think that Brexit is going to magically disappear in a poof of EU decision making, they have to defer to the EU as their lord and masters rather than thinking for themselves

 

[Atilla]

Wasting breath, just as remainers are wasting breath, trying to convince each other otherwise is pointless, all we can do is point out their faulty logic and where they are constantly wrong.

Somehow they think that Brexit is going to magically disappear in a poof of EU decision making, they have to defer to the EU as their lord and masters rather than thinking for themselves

Parliament has never been democratic, it took a public referendum to show it for what it is.

SC some of your posts, and words are outrageous. How can you say those words?

If you believe after all we've seen with this pre-during-post referendum shenanigans that our Parliament isn't democratic your vision of democracy to me and some other Brexiteers sounds much like a tyrannical rule of my way or the highway Trumpism. It was nothing but pure politics. Even UKIP look at them now? Where are they?

As before I see nothing stopping anyone from forming a party and campaigning on their leave EU Brexit manifesto.

There is no mad rush to leave EU. Democracy is fluid. It is important the right level of debate and due consideration is given to leave.

Coming out with these melodramatic outrageous statements show the Brexiteers for what they are. Eurosceptics need to leave the tories join UKIP or what ever and let 3 or 4 party elections take place.

LibDems helping out the Tories when Brown didn't get votes he needed was a clear demonstration of democracy at work.

LibDems paid the price.

Now it's Tories to pay the price of their mis-deeds.

Brexiteers really need to see the politics for what they are instead of trumpeting on and on about the referendum which predominantly was a political instrument to bash Eurosceptics, that badly misfired.

The future is Article 50 consigned to room 101 for now.

 

[Signalcalc]

SC some of your posts, and words are outrageous. How you can say these words?

If you believe after all we've seen with this pre-during-post referendum shenanigans that our Parliament isn't democratic your vision of democracy to me and some other Brexiteers sounds much like a tyrannical rule of my way or the highway Trumpism. It was nothing but pure politics. Even UKIP look at them now? Where are they?

As before I see nothing stopping anyone from forming a party and campaigning on their leave EU Brexit manifesto.

There is no mad rush to leave EU. Democracy is fluid. It is important the right level of debate and due consideration is given to leave.

Coming out with these melodramatic outrageous statements show the Brexiteers for what they are. Eurosceptics need to leave the tories join UKIP or what ever and let 3 or 4 party elections take place.

LibDems helping out the Tories when Brown didn't get votes he needed was a clear demonstration of democracy at work.

LibDems paid the price.

Now it's Tories to pay the price of their mis-deeds.

Brexiteers really need to see the politics for what they are instead of trumpeting on and on about the referendum which predominantly was a political instrument to bash Eurosceptics, which badly misfired.

The future is Article 50 consigned to room 101 for now.

Don't be so quick to judge, UKIP membership has been surging since the middle of last year, that will have only accelerated.

The future is Brexit, by hook or by crook, we will get there, it may take a change of regime, but it will happen, too many citizens want it, you see, always have done, it just took a referendum for their voices to be heard.

What part of democracy do you not understand, people instructed parliament, parliament have ignored them, this has been known for 3 years, it's not news. Individual MPs ignoring the will of their constituents on top of that is the worst of all democracy evils.

Tories & Labour both will pay the price for their silly games, only to be replaced by a pro-Brexit party, the future is Brexit, that will be relatively easy, the more difficult job will be replacing the civil service or indoctrinating them to be Eurosceptic

You saying my statements are outrageous is not an argument.

 

[Atilla]

Don't be so quick to judge, UKIP membership has been surging since the middle of last year, that will have only accelerated.

The future is Brexit, by hook or by crook, we will get there, it may take a change of regime, but it will happen, too many citizens want it, you see, always have done, it just took a referendum for their voices to be heard.

What part of democracy do you not understand, people instructed parliament, parliament have ignored them, this has been known for 3 years, it's not news. Individual MPs ignoring the will of their constituents on top of that is the worst of all democracy evils.

Tories & Labour both will pay the price for their silly games, only to be replaced by a pro-Brexit party, the future is Brexit, that will be relatively easy, the more difficult job will be replacing the civil service or indoctrinating them to be Eurosceptic

You saying my statements are outrageous is not an argument.

That's fine and good luck with UKIP.

What I would like to see is the Tory party to purge itself from Eurosceptics.

Parties should clearly state their position on EU and let the people vote.

I have a sneaky feeling EU was never that important to majority of citizens and issues can be addressed nationally without leaving the EU.

Be good to see if EU trumps national and local issues?

Either way it'll all come out in the democratic wash.

 

[Signalcalc]

That's fine and good luck with UKIP.

This appears to make an assumption that I support UKIP ?!?

What I would like to see is the Tory party to purge itself from Eurosceptics.

Well of course you would, you're a remainer.

Parties should clearly state their position on EU and let the people vote.

Brexit cuts across party lines, otherwise it would be a left/right thing, which it is not, although in the main there are more left wing remainers than right wing Brexiteers, I thought you understood this? How can the 2 main parties be one thing or another when they are divided?

I have a sneaky feeling EU was never that important to majority of citizens and issues can be addressed nationally without leaving the EU.

This is one of the remainer's pillars of misconceptions that we keep calling out on here, not much need to call it out again, oops, I just did

Be good to see if EU trumps national and local issues?

Either way it'll all come out in the democratic wash.

I don't understand this statement, what do you mean by asking this question?

 

[Atilla]

This appears to make an assumption that I support UKIP ?!?

Well do you or not? You could simply state which of the 300+ parties you do support. Not exactly a big confidential secret is it? Or is it?

Well of course you would, you're a remainer.

That has nothing to do with it. Eurosceptics skew the Tory party and / splits it. Has done for some time. Same goes for Labour party with some of their extreme left biases verging on communism let's say. Perhaps simply that UK politics is fragmenting and we'll see more of small parties and future coalitions.

Re: other points we'll see how important Brexit is when the dust settles and people reflect on the waste of time effort and lost investments. Much ado about not much at all. Be good to see some border controls and restrictions to migration.

UK needs to get tough but for the right reasons.


Regional aid grants and few more 1.6bn pay outs to local authorities would really go a long way imo.

 

[Signalcalc]

Well do you or not? You could simply state which of the 300+ parties you do support. Not exactly a big confidential secret is it? Or is it?

I haven't decided, the political landscape changes almost daily, we do not have an election yet, I just know who I am not voting for.

That has nothing to do with it. Eurosceptics skew the Tory party and / splits it. Has done for some time. Same goes for Labour party with some of their extreme left biases verging on communism let's say. Perhaps simply that UK politics is fragmenting and we'll see more of small parties and future coalitions.

Except that the Tories united to produce a manifesto promising Brexit, nothing divided about that.

Re: other points we'll see how important Brexit is when the dust settles and people reflect on the waste of time effort and lost investments. Much ado about not much at all. Be good to see some border controls and restrictions to migration.

You mean you have no answer to my question and would therefore rather move onto some other nonsensical subject (see below).

UK needs to get tough but for the right reasons.


Regional aid grants and few more 1.6bn pay outs to local authorities would really go a long way imo.

Where from, the EU?

 

[0007]

Parliament has just rejected a 2nd referendum! Tony Blair, Gina Miller, the BBC, Sir Humphrey Appleby and an awful lot of Remainers won't like that. Sounds good to me.

 

[Atilla]

Parliament has just rejected a 2nd referendum! Tony Blair, Gina Miller, the BBC, Sir Humphrey Appleby and an awful lot of Remainers won't like that. Sounds good to me.

Parliament votes against a no deal exit.

Parliament votes for extension to Article 50

EU rejects extension without a reasonable cause: New Elections or Referendum

Parliament rejects new elections - Tories desperate to maintain power

Parliament grabs bull by the horns and postpones Article 50


Country breathes sigh of relief and we are back to BAU.

 

[Signalcalc]

Parliament votes against a no deal exit.

Parliament votes for extension to Article 50

EU rejects extension without a reasonable cause: New Elections or Referendum

Parliament rejects new elections - Tories desperate to maintain power

Parliament grabs bull by the horns and postpones Article 50


Country breathes sigh of relief and we are back to BAU.

But parliament has rejected second referendum, clocks ticking.

 

[Atilla]

But parliament has rejected second referendum, clocks ticking.

Yes exactly that leaves elections and fear of Labour, not likely to happen as Tories will lose.

EU will reject extension as they don't want UK bickering whilst they get on with important EU elections.

The EU is a democratic system is it.

Yes they do have elections as well. Funny that - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47568283

That leaves postponing/cancelling Article 50 until UK knows what it wants.

You capiche now...

Tell CV.

 

[Signalcalc]

EU rejects extension without a reasonable cause: New Elections or Referendum

That leaves postponing/cancelling Article 50 until UK knows what it wants.

Yes exactly that leaves elections and fear of Labour, not likely to happen as Tories will lose.

EU will reject extension as they don't want UK bickering whilst they get on with important EU elections.

I'll have some of what you're smoking

 

[Signalcalc]

I agree you've found some fascinating logic

Looks like both are backed into the same corner.

Maybe the UK will be made stateless, no that's against international law isn't it? Best send the CIA in.

Clock is ticking.

 

[Signalcalc]

My guess is that the EU will grant an extension but at the cost €5Bn/month, money grabbing b'stards they are.

 

[Atilla]

My guess is that the EU will grant an extension but at the cost €5Bn/month, money grabbing b'stards they are.

Uncertainty costs time and money. Everybody loses.

Colossal waste of two years plus reputational damage.

Hope lessons learned worth it?

 

[Signalcalc]

They must vote and vote until there is a deal, oops too late, the clock’s run out.

 

[timsk]

They must vote and vote until there is a deal, oops too late, the clock’s run out.

Teresa May will get her lousy deal through next week because the spineless MPs would rather agree to that than have a long extension of Article 50. Even if she fails, she'll just keep nibbling away at the ERG and the DUP and bringing her deal back again and again until they eventually cave in. So, it looks like it's game over to me, time me thinks to iron the white handkerchiefs and practice waving them submissively.
Teresa May: 1 / UK: 0.

The very best that brexiteers can hope for is that - for a third time - her deal fails to get the backing of Parliament and that Nigel Farage is successful in lobbying Eurosceptic leaders and one of them exercises their veto to the EU granting us an extension. That's the only way that I can see we'll leave on the 29th. But the odds against that happening are longer than a very long long thing. Likely as not, this time next week this thread will be history.

Tim.

 

[0007]

Teresa May will get her lousy deal through next week because the spineless MPs would rather agree to that than have a long extension of Article 50. Even if she fails, she'll just keep nibbling away at the ERG and the DUP and bringing her deal back again and again until they eventually cave in. So, it looks like it's game over to me, time me thinks to iron the white handkerchiefs and practice waving them submissively.
Teresa May: 1 / UK: 0.

The very best that brexiteers can hope for is that - for a third time - her deal fails to get the backing of Parliament and that Nigel Farage is successful in lobbying Eurosceptic leaders and one of them exercises their veto to the EU granting us an extension. That's the only way that I can see we'll leave on the 29th. But the odds against that happening are longer than a very long long thing. Likely as not, this time next week this thread will be history.

Tim.

Too early to surrender - this is just Brexit's Dunkirk moment. The current now-disenfranchised voters will not forget when the (election) day of reckoning comes.