C
cantagril
Airbus? What you say is a swizz! We want it!
Cuando Franco vuelve de entre los muertos!
Cuando Franco vuelve de entre los muertos!
Signalcalc
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Don't forget Deutsche bank's impending implosion.
sminicooper
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Atilla
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Your dead pan dry statements always put a smile on my face Mr T.
I would like to say there is nothing wrong with referendum's for determining constitutional decisions but simply that it needs to be a majority of approx. 2/3 thirds in my informed and qualified opinion.
It effectively places the man at the bottom of the ladder on same level as that on top placing world views on par wrt mind bending topics requiring psychotic analysis. Between those two lies the abyss aka Brexit.
Ireland's abortion referendum being a point in example. G1 Ireland. Well done. Exemplary demonstration showing how it should be done.
sminicooper
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JRM's view
JRM recently gave a very interesting lecture by courtesy of the House of Commons Speaker – full text here: https://brexitcentral.com/vision-global-facing-outward-looking-post-brexit-britain/
I'd be very interested to hear any reasoned refutation of his proposition. (Attila – you're on ..........)
JRM recently gave a very interesting lecture by courtesy of the House of Commons Speaker – full text here: https://brexitcentral.com/vision-global-facing-outward-looking-post-brexit-britain/
I'd be very interested to hear any reasoned refutation of his proposition. (Attila – you're on ..........
)
C
cantagril
I vote "Yes"
Atilla
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JRM recently gave a very interesting lecture by courtesy of the House of Commons Speaker – full text here: https://brexitcentral.com/vision-global-facing-outward-looking-post-brexit-britain/
I'd be very interested to hear any reasoned refutation of his proposition. (Attila – you're on ..........
Ok SuperMC here is my take and I'll be interested in yours too.
The first bit about Napoleonic Wars, Waterloo and him somehow drawing some historic precedent for Brexit is really a lot of b0ll0x. It really is. Words fail me as you can see. This is typical of this idiot who speak with a silver spoon up his rear and a twang in his voice.
On the contrary European wars including Napoleonic wars amongst many were the key conception factor for its establishment. Where he gets PRECEDENT for Brexit from is beyond me. Pulls it of his rear once again. Which end hot air is coming out from I have no idea. Any freaking historian amongst us to put record straight with their views
would be appreciated.
So he gives this speech in Houses of Parliament and no one I expect pulls him up on it. Let's be polite about him I guess. Heseltine must have been having kittens.
This is what I would call grand standing. Bigging him self up with tosh. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
UK looking elsewhere in the world was to pick off smaller countries less well developed than Europe. Wasn't some kind of agreement with European countries where UK simply chose to leave looking for ventures elsewhere. France, Spain and England were then fighting over colonies as well. Belgian and Portugal along with the Dutch. Germans came late to the party hence WW1 & WW2. How do you guys think Britain lost the Americas and Canada???? Do you think we gave it to the French or something??? Was all about wars all the way with European states until ESCC was formed post WW2.
Guys a tool. I may not be refined but at least I know my sh1t. I'm not even a historian.
I think you get my gist that his opening entry is full of holes and in NO WAY a precedent for Brexit. Tool is just tarting up his speech with tosh.
Ok that's his intro. I have some chores to attend to. Be back soon for the rest
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counter_violent
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JRM recently gave a very interesting lecture by courtesy of the House of Commons Speaker – full text here: https://brexitcentral.com/vision-global-facing-outward-looking-post-brexit-britain/
I'd be very interested to hear any reasoned refutation of his proposition. (Attila – you're on ..........
The problem is that the remoaners are so entrenched in their position, that they would prefer that the UK fails rather than direct their energies towards making Brexit a success. That way they can say "I told you so". That's the truth of the matter.
For anyone who came of age under Thatcher, opportunities opened up and for those paying attention, they romped ahead, and generally, everyone's standard of living went up.
It's interesting to note that JRM makes the very same point about political responsibility as I made previously. Because our current crop can hide behind a supposed higher authority, this both abdicates them from any responsibility and also it means that we have a chamber full of second raters. Once we leave however, we can expect the standard and caliber of politicians to go up as it becomes clear that our own chamber is the seat of power and where meaningful decisions are made.
Atilla
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JRM recently gave a very interesting lecture by courtesy of the House of Commons Speaker – full text here: https://brexitcentral.com/vision-global-facing-outward-looking-post-brexit-britain/
I'd be very interested to hear any reasoned refutation of his proposition. (Attila – you're on ..........
Ok following on... There are more than three types of Brexit. EU has many tiers of membership if that's what his hinting at. Alternatively there is pure Exit. There is no three about it. He can frame and structure it and dice it anyway he wants but for the simple mind he may be able to walk on water but from anyone who's half clued up on EU, to put it mildly, his inaccurate with his perceptions.
Moving on to looking at his view about UK being open to the World...
I've talked about this before. Unique set of global circumstances no longer exist for the UK. That is UK was one of the first countries to go through a process of industrial revolution with mass migration of people away from living in rural communities and into cities working in central location of production.
UK is an Island which was strong in marine warfare and gunship diplomacy. That position no longer exists. His suggesting we are not looking at the whole world which is his view and vision that we can and should be doing more else where. He doesn't understand this is already the case within EU. This point may be debatable ie how successful EU is in trade with the rest of the World. If you feel it is not then Brexit may seem appealing. If it is then it is questionable if UK can negotiate better trade deals than EU. Personally, I don't think so. UK is inept at producing or selling anything. Selling all the crown jewels, state industries along with private ones. Pat often gets hot under the collar and I don't blame him. If there was any validity in his arguments UK would be gobbling up other producers or buying them in foreign countries. Quite the contrary UK is a net seller of industries.
So when he say UK should be open and we also had this debate what is he selling. What is the USP?
Says our history is a global nation. He means was. Having said that other than US and UK most nations are global these days.
Talks about Norway. Lalalalala what's that got to do with Britain? Bit like CV talks about other peoples troubles and gloats about him self whilst ignoring all else.
He makes some obtuse points about protectionism. Then he mentions immigration preferring skilled whilst avoiding cheap. This is a bit of politics imo. If you are serious about free trade and open borders you let factors of production move freely and let the market decide true value. This is the principal of EU. Free movement of goods and capital. Here as I say his playing political p1ssing contest to appease Brexiteers.
Next bit is really stupid imho. About UK playing a global role by cooperating with allies beyond European Sphere??? WHO??? US? the Commonwealth? EU is the biggest block.
We are not 'just' one of the 28 and not bound to go with the other 27 what ever they agree. WHAT A FECKLESS POLITICIAN. Brexiteers must lap this up big time.
UK has the 3rd largest seats after Germany and France. Seats and votes are proportional to population sizes. Idiot either is twisting the truth or hasn't bothered to find out. There is a European Parliament and voting is not always by national block but can be along party lines or based on what ever is being put forward.
WE DO NOT GO ALONG WITH WHAT EVER OTHER 27 DECIDE. We make the rules being one of top 3 players. Most of those food and farming directives and rules were introduced by UK via NFU. Dumb stupid idiot. What else can I call a slimy politician.
Apparently a £135bn Brexit dividend has been identified for us between 2020 - 2025 and then £40bn from then on. Well I have no clue about this other than if the man is to be belived we should get the fred out of the EU pronto. Yesterday will do.
No debate no show. Let's do it. I'm getting tired of wasting my time in his post now. Think I've said enough. More substantially, we have seen his lies play out.
1. Prices didn't fall as when pound falls UK ended up importing inflation and interest rates rose.
2. Wages will not go up why should they. No productivity no wage increase.
3. Training budgets don't exist. Look at Nursing Bursaries. Say one thing do another.
No track record or evidence but on the contrary standards will fall. Jobs will leave along with industry. Pound will fall and interest rates will rise. GDP will fall considerably as has been happening.
Level of uncertainty will rise.
Delays in imports and exports will rise and non-productive costs also rise.
Really the guy is a clown. A jerk. Labours wet dream as I call it. It will be an unmitigated disaster if JRM ever gets elected for Tory leadership; for party and country. Frankly speaking I think you should tell him to take his vision and boot it to the Caymen Islands.
Fools among Brexiteer who lack analytical cells may believe his twangy tosh but each to their own.
Yours truly,
counter_violent
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Ok following on... There are more than three types of Brexit. EU has many tiers of membership if that's what his hinting at. Alternatively there is pure Exit. There is no three about it. He can frame and structure it and dice it anyway he wants but for the simple mind he may be able to walk on water but from anyone who's half clued up on EU, to put it mildly, his inaccurate with his perceptions.
Moving on to looking at his view about UK being open to the World...
I've talked about this before. Unique set of global circumstances no longer exist for the UK. That is UK was one of the first countries to go through a process of industrial revolution with mass migration of people away from living in rural communities and into cities working in central location of production.
UK is an Island which was strong in marine warfare and gunship diplomacy. That position no longer exists. His suggesting we are not looking at the whole world which is his view and vision that we can and should be doing more else where. He doesn't understand this is already the case within EU. This point may be debatable ie how successful EU is in trade with the rest of the World. If you feel it is not then Brexit may seem appealing. If it is then it is questionable if UK can negotiate better trade deals than EU. Personally, I don't think so. UK is inept at producing or selling anything. Selling all the crown jewels, state industries along with private ones. Pat often gets hot under the collar and I don't blame him. If there was any validity in his arguments UK would be gobbling up other producers or buying them in foreign countries. Quite the contrary UK is a net seller of industries.
So when he say UK should be open and we also had this debate what is he selling. What is the USP?
Says our history is a global nation. He means was. Having said that other than US and UK most nations are global these days.
Talks about Norway. Lalalalala what's that got to do with Britain? Bit like CV talks about other peoples troubles and gloats about him self whilst ignoring all else.
He makes some obtuse points about protectionism. Then he mentions immigration preferring skilled whilst avoiding cheap. This is a bit of politics imo. If you are serious about free trade and open borders you let factors of production move freely and let the market decide true value. This is the principal of EU. Free movement of goods and capital. Here as I say his playing political p1ssing contest to appease Brexiteers.
Next bit is really stupid imho. About UK playing a global role by cooperating with allies beyond European Sphere??? WHO??? US? the Commonwealth? EU is the biggest block.
We are not 'just' one of the 28 and not bound to go with the other 27 what ever they agree. WHAT A FECKLESS POLITICIAN. Brexiteers must lap this up big time.
UK has the 3rd largest seats after Germany and France. Seats and votes are proportional to population sizes. Idiot either is twisting the truth or hasn't bothered to find out. There is a European Parliament and voting is not always by national block but can be along party lines or based on what ever is being put forward.
WE DO NOT GO ALONG WITH WHAT EVER OTHER 27 DECIDE. We make the rules being one of top 3 players. Most of those food and farming directives and rules were introduced by UK via NFU. Dumb stupid idiot. What else can I call a slimy politician.
Apparently a £135bn Brexit dividend has been identified for us between 2020 - 2025 and then £40bn from then on. Well I have no clue about this other than if the man is to be belived we should get the fred out of the EU pronto. Yesterday will do.
I'm getting tired of wasting my time in his post now. Think I've said enough. More substantially, we have seen his lies play out.
1. Prices didn't fall as when pound falls UK ended up importing inflation and interest rates rose.
2. Wages will not go up why should they. No productivity no wage increase.
3. Training budgets don't exist. Look at Nursing Bursaries. Say one thing do another.
No track record or evidence but on the contrary standards will fall. Jobs will leave along with industry. Pound will fall and interest rates will rise. GDP will fall considerably as has been happening.
Level of uncertainty will rise.
Delays in imports and exports will rise and non-productive costs also rise.
Really the guy is a clown. A jerk. Labours wet dream as I call it. It will be an unmitigated disaster if JRM ever gets elected for Tory leadership; for party and country. Frankly speaking I think you should tell him to take his vision and boot it to the Caymen Islands.
Fools among Brexiteer who lack analytical cells may believe his twangy tosh but each to their own.
Yours truly,
Too much tosh to reply to here.
Still waffling on about why we shouldn't leave
Let me spell it out for you. WE ARE LEAVING
Now all you have to do is tell us how to benefit from the fact that we are leaving.
While your at it....explain to us why the EU won't collapse next year when we have left without a deal. We can all see the direction of travel of individual EU member countries. They are all moving towards the UK position of dissatisfaction with the EU.
Signalcalc
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Ok following on... There are more than three types of Brexit. EU has many tiers of membership if that's what his hinting at. Alternatively there is pure Exit. There is no three about it. He can frame and structure it and dice it anyway he wants but for the simple mind he may be able to walk on water but from anyone who's half clued up on EU, to put it mildly, his inaccurate with his perceptions.
Moving on to looking at his view about UK being open to the World...
I've talked about this before. Unique set of global circumstances no longer exist for the UK. That is UK was one of the first countries to go through a process of industrial revolution with mass migration of people away from living in rural communities and into cities working in central location of production.
UK is an Island which was strong in marine warfare and gunship diplomacy. That position no longer exists. His suggesting we are not looking at the whole world which is his view and vision that we can and should be doing more else where. He doesn't understand this is already the case within EU. This point may be debatable ie how successful EU is in trade with the rest of the World. If you feel it is not then Brexit may seem appealing. If it is then it is questionable if UK can negotiate better trade deals than EU. Personally, I don't think so. UK is inept at producing or selling anything. Selling all the crown jewels, state industries along with private ones. Pat often gets hot under the collar and I don't blame him. If there was any validity in his arguments UK would be gobbling up other producers or buying them in foreign countries. Quite the contrary UK is a net seller of industries.
So when he say UK should be open and we also had this debate what is he selling. What is the USP?
Says our history is a global nation. He means was. Having said that other than US and UK most nations are global these days.
Talks about Norway. Lalalalala what's that got to do with Britain? Bit like CV talks about other peoples troubles and gloats about him self whilst ignoring all else.
He makes some obtuse points about protectionism. Then he mentions immigration preferring skilled whilst avoiding cheap. This is a bit of politics imo. If you are serious about free trade and open borders you let factors of production move freely and let the market decide true value. This is the principal of EU. Free movement of goods and capital. Here as I say his playing political p1ssing contest to appease Brexiteers.
Next bit is really stupid imho. About UK playing a global role by cooperating with allies beyond European Sphere??? WHO??? US? the Commonwealth? EU is the biggest block.
We are not 'just' one of the 28 and not bound to go with the other 27 what ever they agree. WHAT A FECKLESS POLITICIAN. Brexiteers must lap this up big time.
UK has the 3rd largest seats after Germany and France. Seats and votes are proportional to population sizes. Idiot either is twisting the truth or hasn't bothered to find out. There is a European Parliament and voting is not always by national block but can be along party lines or based on what ever is being put forward.
WE DO NOT GO ALONG WITH WHAT EVER OTHER 27 DECIDE. We make the rules being one of top 3 players. Most of those food and farming directives and rules were introduced by UK via NFU. Dumb stupid idiot. What else can I call a slimy politician.
Apparently a £135bn Brexit dividend has been identified for us between 2020 - 2025 and then £40bn from then on. Well I have no clue about this other than if the man is to be belived we should get the fred out of the EU pronto. Yesterday will do.
I'm getting tired of wasting my time in his post now. Think I've said enough. More substantially, we have seen his lies play out.
1. Prices didn't fall as when pound falls UK ended up importing inflation and interest rates rose.
2. Wages will not go up why should they. No productivity no wage increase.
3. Training budgets don't exist. Look at Nursing Bursaries. Say one thing do another.
No track record or evidence but on the contrary standards will fall. Jobs will leave along with industry. Pound will fall and interest rates will rise. GDP will fall considerably as has been happening.
Level of uncertainty will rise.
Delays in imports and exports will rise and non-productive costs also rise.
Really the guy is a clown. A jerk. Labours wet dream as I call it. It will be an unmitigated disaster if JRM ever gets elected for Tory leadership; for party and country. Frankly speaking I think you should tell him to take his vision and boot it to the Caymen Islands.
Fools among Brexiteer who lack analytical cells may believe his twangy tosh but each to their own.
Yours truly,
Looks positive to me
:cheesy::smart:
Atilla
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Too much tosh to reply to here.
Still waffling on about why we shouldn't leave
Let me spell it out for you. WE ARE LEAVING
Now all you have to do is tell us how to benefit from the fact that we are leaving.
While your at it....explain to us why the EU won't collapse next year when we have left without a deal. We can all see the direction of travel of individual EU member countries. They are all moving towards the UK position of dissatisfaction with the EU.
fwiw CV I feel there is rear guard action already creeping up on you but you are none the wiser. I'll let you grow and continue with your we are leaving dream for now.
Plan is to let Brexit unwind some more until peeps from the ground level up start squeaking.
Scotland and NI voted remain but Wales voted Brexit. They are feeling winds of change now somewhat eh? I wouldn't be surprised if we see few more industries leave.
I can guarantee you one thing though. We will have a 2nd referendum or it may be in the guise of a parliamentary vote or new elections. Happy to bet couple of pints on it. :cheers: :cheers:
counter_violent
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So as the EU collapses, what happens to the remoaners position?
I suggest it becomes indefensible and irrelevant.
So as the EU collapses, what happens to the remoaners position?
I suggest it becomes indefensible and irrelevant.
cv, I'm puzzled, to say the least. What countries are collapsing, exactly? What happens in the future is something that not even your powers of perception can be sure of.
It seems to me, that something in your makeup wants to believe that EU is going to break up. Is it because you want the Brexit argument to be strengthened?
Brexit won the referendum on a too close result. I cannot see any ending to the talks unless UK walks away. For some reason, it is taking too long to make up her mind.
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counter_violent
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Hi Split, I said the EU is collapsing. Individual countries are strengthening their resolve against the center.
It's not a question of what I want. I'm merely stating the facts.
The fact that remoaners don't like all these truths being pointed out to them is not my problem.
Atilla
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Which alternative facts are you referring to?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ave-european-union-as-slowest-growing-economy
We have gone from leading to being a laggard.
Yeah I know, nobody said it was going to be easy. :whistling
No pain no gain. CV way or the highway exit in to the wilderness.
When you talk of our young current crop hiding behind authority, I don't think you are referring to the national football team. You care to elaborate?
Atilla
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Why not?
How will EU control Commonwealth citizens coming to UK and then proceeding to invade EU states with no controls. Or other banana republics we strike bilateral trade agreements with and remove visas.
EU learning from UK :idea:
