9/11 - The Third Tower

[strongboes]

no, but they don't travel the universe then refuse to reveal themselves, or be kept quiet in lockers in "Area 52"


UTB

well i always thought it was area 51, and how the hell would you or i or anybody know about what a ufo would be doing?

 

[the blades]

well i always thought it was area 51, and how the hell would you or i or anybody know about what a ufo would be doing?

Area 51, I bow to you superior knowledge. It's just another crackpot theory to me, so my recollection isn't that great

I wouldn't know what the UFO would be doing - I'd just hazard a guess that if they were capable of travelling billions of miles they might just communicate with us lesser beings. Perhaps we set some SAS types on them - to keep 'em quiet?

Ive no doubt the aliens true intentions are available for all to read, on many of the links posted by Jtrader above.

UTB

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . . Sticks head in thread

Conspiriloons - "But it's on prisonplanet.com so it must be the thruth, you're all ignoring the evidence"
Everyone else - "But here are peer-reviewed papers demonstrating disproving your theories"
Conspiriloons - "No they don't, it's on prisonplanet.com"

Wanders off . . .



All of the Mossad/space alien lizards/WTC/7/7/etc conspiracy theories rest on the premise that there is an implausibly enormous organised group of conspirators who are impossibly disciplined and supernaturally powerful. They also rest on the premise that the entire rest of the population (minus themselves and their loonie-tune mates) are willing sheep who believe exactly what they are told to believe. In the real world, on the other hand, technical experts, medical staff, knowledgeable observers and the rest of us sheep are often highly skeptical and when we are presented with situations which contradict our scientific knowledge of the world, we are far more likely to go running to the media immediately than we are to say "yes boss".

 

[TheBramble]

you're right - I can't be arsed to follow the links. They'll be full of other fantasists - the type who will announce retirement on message boards for a response, but never go away because they're "making so much easy money" from the thing that's boring them to death:whistling

Can't rep you mate and the real 9/11 discussion died away a long time back - this is a whole other kettle of fish - as you've correctly identified.

Tu-tu stage-right with a bit of luck.....

 

[north5]

I don't see why everyone who questions some of the 'evidence' has to be a conspiriloon.

I don't see a plane hit the pentagon and I wonder why. I see three - yes three - towers collapse straight down and I wonder how such perfect falls that saved half of NY happened.

So I have questions.

Could it have all happened as officially described. Maybe, I suppose. Could it have been an inside job. Yes there is definately the capability in the US for that - just look at the sophistication of their army ffs.

So what is the answer - I don't know and doubt I ever will - I do know the outcome benefited the pockets of those running the US at the time more than anyone else.

 

[the blades]

I do know the outcome benefited the pockets of those running the US at the time more than anyone else.

let's hope they didn't hold stocks or need to buy gas. Or eat for that matter.

UTB

 

[north5]

Yes they did hold stocks - stocks of companies that now receive huge govt contracts with very little competition. Stocks that have seen huge rises in their valuations. Stocks that should should bar from positions of power due to the obvious conflicts of interest they pose. Stocks that they refused to give up or cash in.

Take a look at what Haliburton does to make money - take a look who owns a big part of it - then tell me that Senior Govt officials could not have orchestrated something like 9/11 if they really wanted too. Now I'm not going as far to say they did - I'm just saying they could.

 

[TheBramble]

Hay! Have you noticed how whipping it doesn't make any difference?

 

[Atilla]

I can't answer that, I'm not clever enough. You taking the mickey blades??? I'm not saying I'm clever. Please don't insult my intelligence and answer the question as I will answer yours.

Can you not bring your self to say "Blimey those two buildings going down looked identically similar to me yet one was demolished and the other burnt down?

It's only a freaking opinion. A mere view! A simple perception you may have observed. Please try and be a little more generous with your opinion. la

Instead of I can't answer that, I'm not clever enough. What kind of a man are you? Do you not have a conscience? What are you afraid of? Am I getting too personnel??? Apologies if so but I hope you see where I'm coming from and forgive my shocking disbelief at your reply!

A simple question for you now - do you honestly believe that there are hundreds of people who together agreed to kill thousands of their own in order to start a religious war that would kill hundreds of thousands of others? Do you honestly believe that they could, to a man, keep it to themselves. Not tell the wife, loved ones, freinds - whilst pissed or on their death beds etc?

It is simply laughable, isn't it?

I doubt there are hundreds but perhaps a hand full at the top and no it is not laughable imho.

Basically, people at the bottom of the chain don't know what is being done or carried out at the top. eg. Terrorists flying the aeroplanes considering they were not very good, it's questionable they banked and flew the aeroplanes into the buildings single handedly. It is highly probable the flight computers on board were given coordinates or even homed in on something transmitting in the towers.

It is also possible they indeed did fly the aeroplanes into the building but I have a nagging doubt the catalogue of unanswered questions and post reaction leaves me to think someone somewhere knew and turned a blind eye to their acts. I would like this to be investigated and questions answered.

Before you laugh your head off this feat could have been achieved by one or two computer programmers. Not much different from laser guided missiles. Also engineers installing flight boxes for all they know were installing standard kit that was modified in some way.

Clever software developers write codes with back doors into applications that only they know. This is activated by secret combination of key strokes or signals. So your average aircraft engineer may be replacing the flight navigation system, unbeknown to him he has installed a modified identical box like the 50 or 100s of others he has replaced in the past.

These acts were no doubt planned years ahead. I doubt they were planned and executed within a year or two.

How easy would this be? Very easy. Defence research staff could have easily built one of these and tested for other remote control military kit and tweaked for an aeroplane with very little effort.

Please bear in mind operatives would have no knowledge of actual area of operation. Their brief is limited and finite.

In the name of national security you can just about get away with anything in the US - even murder in my opinion.



WTC7 could have been wired up years ahead. The relevant party could have been told it's for surveillance and espionage. The Russians will be letting the floors. How about Chineese or Airbus industries looking for marketing offices?

You only disclose information that is sufficient to get the job done. Once again how many people do you need over what period of time. No more than a hand full over good many months or years. What does it matter... I would have different teams of people carrying out different tasks. No body makes the connections. Buildings these days are wired with RJ45 and fibre cables as default. Standard practice. Who is going to question infrastructure work on a buidling. Do I ask what each cable is for. No I lay the cable take my money and job done. I may have done one floor or two floors. Is that enough to bring the building down. No don't be silly of course not. Why should I care? That is so far fetched its ridiculous.

But how about 10 contractors doing several floors each. Or one contractor wiring the building up to install new monitoring devices. How about monitoring device for earth quakes. I don't believe these are too far fetched and possible if I put my mind to it. Bear in mind Pentagon has billions riding on defence contracts. Peoples heads have turned for much less.

Those very people subsequently could have died through natural causes or accidents. Who knows. But you wouldn't need hundreds of bodies to carry out such an act.



As I asked above, through ongoing government incompetence, lost files on this and that, don't you find it strange that these files contain nothing other than personal details or information about spies? How can that be when we are being controlled and manipulated in the ways that, certainly Jtrader if not others, actually believe?

US government have sent mission to the moon and the stars. You can see pictures of Mars. They can see the colour of your eyes and your body heat signatures from 000s of miles above.

They have a missile shield that can shoot down incoming nuclear missiles from space using laser beams. These missiles travel literally at 000s of miles per hour. They know when these are are fired within seconds and can start tracking them any where in the world.

They can send a mission to the bottom of the sea where the pressure per sq inch is God knows how much.

They have aircraft that can travel without being detected by Radar.

They have submarines than can travel without producing a sound which the most sophisticated equipment can't detect.

Man has split the atom.

I bet if they wanted to they would know within 20 minutes from you SAT Nav if you have one where you've been and even what you purchased from Tescos with your credit card.

They have computers that scan and read literally billions of emails flagging certain ones for review.

You talk about government inefficiencies and friendly fire. Well yes that too can happen but the absence of you not being clever enough to figure out how they did it does not exclude the fact that it is possible and we need to investigate.


UTB

So in summary yes it can be done by a hand full of people meticulously planned from the top sufficiently to create these kinds of debates such that nobody believes it cause it's simply too outrageous.

Will you be kind enough to now supply me with an answer in all honesty and sincerity if you have any doubts or inklings that the WT7C that came down due to intense fire looks remarkably similar to a building being demolished?

Anybody who has seen the BBC documentary feel free to comment. Simple question???

PS nobody will hold you to accountable for the consequences of your views. I mean don't worry...

 

[fibonelli]

. . . Sticks head in thread

Conspiriloons - "But it's on prisonplanet.com so it must be the thruth, you're all ignoring the evidence"
Everyone else - "But here are peer-reviewed papers demonstrating disproving your theories"
Conspiriloons - "No they don't, it's on prisonplanet.com"

Wanders off . . .



All of the Mossad/space alien lizards/WTC/7/7/etc conspiracy theories rest on the premise that there is an implausibly enormous organised group of conspirators who are impossibly disciplined and supernaturally powerful. They also rest on the premise that the entire rest of the population (minus themselves and their loonie-tune mates) are willing sheep who believe exactly what they are told to believe. In the real world, on the other hand, technical experts, medical staff, knowledgeable observers and the rest of us sheep are often highly skeptical and when we are presented with situations which contradict our scientific knowledge of the world, we are far more likely to go running to the media immediately than we are to say "yes boss".

Critical and independent thinkers -
Here's some very high level info you won't find on the lame stream media.
Makes you think and want to do more research.
Ability to separate the disinfo and psyops from the near (or actual) sense of truth.
Ability to join the dots to see the big picture.

Head in the sand/Can't won't think critically/Agent Provacateur/everyone else -
See no evil, say no evil, hear no evil (see picture)
Can't be true as it's not on beeb, itv, abc, faux etc etc.
All events are random, it just happens 'cos someone made a terrible terrible mistake, oh dear, never mind eh <head back in the sand>
*Mr Expert says it true and so it must be true.
Disinfo and/or psyops <hopes s/he doesn't get caught out>

*Don't get me started on early medicine/smoking/thalidomide/asbestos etc etc let alone the current fraud and bull$hit regarding MBS, ABS, CDO's, CLO's, ABCP, AAA rating of AMBAC/MBIA. Experts, WTF!

 

[the blades]

So in summary yes it can be done by a hand full of people meticulously planned from the top sufficiently to create these kinds of debates such that nobody believes it cause it's simply too outrageous.

Will you be kind enough to now supply me with an answer in all honesty and sincerity if you have any doubts or inklings that the WT7C that came down due to intense fire looks remarkably similar to a building being demolished?

Anybody who has seen the BBC documentary feel free to comment. Simple question???

PS nobody will hold you to accountable for the consequences of your views. I mean don't worry...

I haven't time now to digest the rest of your reply, but rest assured I wasn't taking the ****. But take it how you will.

It boils down to being conditioned (in an earlier life) to not presume I can predict anything - all sorts of strange and seemingly inexplicable things happen.

I'm not scared of the consequence of beliefs, just to lazy to spend time on, IMHO, silly blind alleys. It's just not feesible.

Did the planes not crash into the towers? Were the phone calls to loved ones just before the crash all faked? Are the people on the other end of these calls on the take? Were the people flying the planes on the payroll - and what good did the money do them?

And none of your list of achievements of Governments relies on hundreds of people keeping quiet about the mass murder of potentially tens of thousands of their own. The confidence they must all have that nobody spills the beans, even on their death beds. Again, it's just not feesible.

Head in the sand - maybe. But I'm clear about who's heads there.

Edit - I will add that I was suprised at the time about how the towers came down. It didn't lead me to conclude that mass murderers would be so considerate.

UTB

 

[TheBramble]

July 7 2005 - London Bombings

Why has the above ‘Islamic Fundamentalist Outrage’ not received anything like the conspiricisation that 9/11 has?

Could be due to the fewer deaths. (The Met kill more than that by accident).

Could be the greater control MI5 have over preparation execution than do the CIA. (MI5 don’t smoke their operational currency).

In essence, there are potentially as many questions over the alleged perpetrators, the preparedness of the emergency response teams (government – not first response) and the subsequent handling of materiel and investigations into this event as there were for 9/11.

Yet hardly anything in this event rouses anything like the untrammelled fury that it appears to in those who are likely totally uneducated in the reality of either situation, but feel free to voice their opinion based on what they’ve been handed by media and websites, and expect their armchair research to be accepted as a basis for further rational discussion or even as ‘the truth’.

The Truth is known to large numbers of people. Those that want you to believe they did it. They may have done it. If they didn’t, there are equally large numbers of people that don’t want you to know they did it. But it would be awfully hard to believe that there wouldn’t be sufficient cracks in that edifice to ensure, however well ‘containment’ was handled, that something of a substantive nature would emerge. It hasn’t. In 7 years, it hasn’t.

I have no idea what happened or who was responsible. Not really. Neither do you.

 

[Atilla]

Why has the above ‘Islamic Fundamentalist Outrage’ not received anything like the conspiricisation that 9/11 has?

Could be due to the fewer deaths. (The Met kill more than that by accident).

Could be the greater control MI5 have over preparation execution than do the CIA. (MI5 don’t smoke their operational currency).

In essence, there are potentially as many questions over the alleged perpetrators, the preparedness of the emergency response teams (government – not first response) and the subsequent handling of materiel and investigations into this event as there were for 9/11.

Yet hardly anything in this event rouses anything like the untrammelled fury that it appears to in those who are likely totally uneducated in the reality of either situation, but feel free to voice their opinion based on what they’ve been handed by media and websites, and expect their armchair research to be accepted as a basis for further rational discussion or even as ‘the truth’.

The Truth is known to large numbers of people. Those that want you to believe they did it. They may have done it. If they didn’t, there are equally large numbers of people that don’t want you to know they did it. But it would be awfully hard to believe that there wouldn’t be sufficient cracks in that edifice to ensure, however well ‘containment’ was handled, that something of a substantive nature would emerge. It hasn’t. In 7 years, it hasn’t.

I have no idea what happened or who was responsible. Not really. Neither do you.

I think the London and Spain bombings were the consequence of isolated non-affiliated terrorist cells. Join the bandwagon kind of low life jerks who are nobody and want to be somebody. Good point as to what happened to the trail of money finance and who controlled them. There was some connection to Pakistan/Afghanistan - a visit or so.

I guess the damage, death and destruction was limited although it cause a seismic political shift in Spain who also withdrew from Iraq.

Regarding strength of feeling, I think people can see the 9/11 scenario doesn't add up. WTC7, Pentagon and way buildings came down. Too many unanswered questions.

London and Spain bombings you can see events and none of the inexplicable luggage. Also these were post Iraq-war reaction and not a precurser to some stupid illegitemate war.

I concur we don't know what happened with 9/11 and there lies the problem. Not many people do. White House's response has been to keep it that way.

 

[Atilla]

Yes they did hold stocks - stocks of companies that now receive huge govt contracts with very little competition. Stocks that have seen huge rises in their valuations. Stocks that should should bar from positions of power due to the obvious conflicts of interest they pose. Stocks that they refused to give up or cash in.

Take a look at what Haliburton does to make money - take a look who owns a big part of it - then tell me that Senior Govt officials could not have orchestrated something like 9/11 if they really wanted too. Now I'm not going as far to say they did - I'm just saying they could.

Halliburtons profits were questioned as to how a company valued in few hundred million dollars could produce output and services valued at billions of dollars. Literally, no joke.

They said this was due to high security premium attached to operating in Iraq!!!

The amount of billions of dollars that is not accounted for ever since the US took over control of Iraq is beyond anyones imagination. Anything goes and who ever has power in terms of operational control takes what they want.

Iraq is being milked of literally billions and oil is smuggled out in containers via Turkey.

There is no financial accountability in Iraq. Never has been. I doubt there ever will.

As for US administration they passed another $100bn to help train US soldiers coming back home. At least that was the reason but questionable how much the poor sods will see coming back without the limbs (total is $800bn so far).

Freaking politicians on the take being back handed via the contracts they offer their backers.

Whole fiasco is a money making machine to selective few.

No skin off my nose but I believe these events have a lot to do with the dollar sinking.

Vietnam war knocked out the gold standard / dollar link.
Iraq war undoubtedly will knock the dollar standard off its perch...

US patriots even now considering the sanity of their government. About time they woke up and questioned their government instead of closing down any radio station that dared ask one question...

Be interesting to look back on these events 20 years from now and see what the perspective of people are...

I wonder how many people believe Harvey Oswald actually shot JFK? I fired rifles and even at 100 yards you would be pushed to hit a stationary water melon if you were good, let alone to hit a moving target 300 yards away?

Such is life... Ask no questions get no lies told I suppose.

 

[Crap Buddist]

War & Terrorism Pays Well

Halliburtons profits were questioned

Yeah I saw a bit on that...

10 tankers gas transported, usual rate $3000.00

If for Government contract $10,000.00

Halliburtons actual rate received $27,500,000.00 (27.5 million )

 

[fibonelli]

Why has the above ‘Islamic Fundamentalist Outrage’ not received anything like the conspiricisation that 9/11 has?......................

I have no idea what happened or who was responsible. Not really. Neither do you.

It has!!

Plenty to read here

J7: The July 7th Truth Campaign - The People's Independent Public Inquiry into 7/7

here

London 7/7 Attack: Creating the Enemy

and here

London 7/7

 

[Crap Buddist]

Thing with the 911 is that a lot of professionals want the investigation to start too fireman,pilots ,police and apparently 50% of the population of newyorkers .


The fireman who made it out had to fight to get the tapes released of their colleagues stating, the fires nearly out, just needs a couple of lines in here.78th floor..

hardly a melting inferno was it?

 

[Crap Buddist]

Why has the above ‘Islamic Fundamentalist Outrage’ not received anything like the conspiricisation that 9/11 has?

.

Well if the London road system & Harrods neatly imploded & disappeared despite engineers saying its not possible. Then , I'm sure it would of done.

Again with the twin towers after the planes rammed into them, they swayed, but then corrected themselves, normally and stood, with about 70 floors of support below, fcool fires almost out. No reason for them to implode.

Maybe the 911 buildings all had a structural engineering fault too , I thought it normal that the insurers would "get in there" after all that UL underwriters company certified the steel to withstand fire and not fall down? But for some reason the Mayor orders the evidence to be bulldozed off an melted down. only in amerika.....!

Out of all the IRA bombs in the past how many of our weak old concrete buildings entirely imploded into dust even with the use of explosives... ?

I cant rmember seeing any entirely "falling over" perhaps there is though...... ??

 

[JTrader]

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com WTC 7 Emergency Head Was Building Collapse Specialist

WTC 7 Emergency Head Was Building Collapse Specialist
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Thursday, July 10, 2008

The former New York City chief emergency manager Jerome Hauer, whose office was on the 23d floor of WTC 7, was also a building collapse specialist, according to a recently uncovered New York Times article. Hauer has attracted suspicion from the 9/11 truth movement because of his zeal to push the official story in the hours after the attack when details were still sketchy.

Hauer was also Managing Director of Kroll Associates - the company that provided security for the WTC complex on 9/11 - and he also betrayed advance knowledge of the anthrax attacks a week before they happened.

In a July 27 1999 NY Times article unearthed by 9/11 Blogger entitled What Could Go Wrong? It’s His Job to Know, Hauer is given a glowing write-up by journalist Randy Kennedy.

“There is one story he tells in which this fascination is quite literal….But another illustration, a bit more metaphorical, is hard to miss when you walk into his office on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center, otherwise known as ”the bunker,” the $13 million bulletproof, hurricane-proof, blackout-proof emergency crisis center opened by the city last month.”

The article describes Building 7 for what it was, a structurally reinforced immovable object built for the express purpose of standing strong in a crisis situation, not the weakling tinderbox that allegedly became the first steel building in history to collapse from fire damage alone, according to debunkers like the BBC, the History Channel, Popular Mechanics and others.

Indeed, as the NY Times quotes Larry Silverstein as stating in 1989, WTC 7 designers “Built in enough redundancy to allow entire portions of floors to be removed without affecting the building’s structural integrity,” a solid structure that was again improved upon that year with “More than 375 tons of steel - requiring 12 miles of welding.”

The article describes Hauer’s role, “As the city’s chief emergency manager, Mr. Hauer oversees the response to building collapses, of which there have been no shortage over the last three years.”
Jerome Hauer: Pictured in 1996 with Rudy Giuliani.

“For much of his professional life, it has been the task of Jerome M. Hauer, 47, to know a lot about how things work so that when they stop working — when they fall down, when they get blown down or blown up, when they freeze or burst or burn out — he knows what to do. Like all self-described emergency junkies, he sits around all day thinking up horrifying ways for things to be destroyed and people to die and then hoping that all his plans stay on the shelf.

Interesting therefore that Hauer would have his office in the middle of a 47-storey building that collapsed into its own footprint within 7 seconds in the late afternoon of 9/11 having been hit by minimal debris and suffering limited fire damage.

The article emphasizes the emergencies Hauer would list in his resume that he was an expert on, “Helicopter crash, subway fire, water main break, ice storm, heat wave, blackout, building collapse, building collapse, building collapse.”

In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, Hauer appeared on CBS News with Dan Rather and immediately set about crafting a surprisingly affirmative explanation for the events and spun a yarn that soon became the official story.

Watch the clip.
Hauer was suspiciously keen to stress that the buildings were not demolished by explosives but by the planes that hit them, despite this being a complete reversal of what chief WTC architects and designers had concluded during studies about the impact of planes into the twin towers beforehand.

Hauer also pointed the finger directly at Bin Laden as the script began to unfold.

“[M]y sense is that just the velocity of the plane and the fact that you have a plane filled with fuel hitting that building that burned, that the velocity of the plane certainly had an impact on the structure itself. And then the fact that it burned and you had that intense heat probably weakened the structure as well. And I think it was simply the planes hitting the buildings and causing the collapse,” Hauer told Rather.

Rather also asks Hauer if the attacks could have been carried out without state sponsorship. Hauer replies: “I’m not sure I agree that this is necessarily state-sponsored. It… certainly has the fingerprints of somebody like bin Laden.”

Hauer was surprisingly “accurate” with his foreknowledge of how the official story would later appear to confirm all of his initial presumptions despite the chaos surrounding the attacks in the hours after they took place.

On 9/11, Hauer was Managing Director of Kroll Associates, a security firm intertwined with the military-industrial complex that was also coincidentally in charge of security for the entire World Trade Center complex on that fateful day.

Furthermore, it was Hauer that reportedly advised the White House to begin taking Cipro, an antibiotic which is effective against anthrax, on the very day of 9/11 and one week before the first anthrax letter was received.

Two months after 9/11, Hauer was part of a Council on Foreign Relations panel that released a document entitled Independent Task Force on America’s Response to Terrorism, which in part called for alternative explanations behind 9/11 to be countered.

Hauer’s almost instant and precise summation of the cause of building collapses that were completely unprecedented in history, along with his “expertise” in the characteristics of controlled demolition, in addition to his foreknowledge of the anthrax attacks and his position with Kroll Associates, justifiably continue to attract interest amongst researchers in the 9/11 truth movement.

RELATED: Meet Jerome Hauer, 9/11 Suspect Awaiting Indictment

 

[JTrader]

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com 9/11 Truth: How Many People Question The Official Account?