You are NOT trading.

[mp6140]

Hi mp,

If your client wants---I know that almost all are very short term---but, could he take possesion of those shares on the expiry date?

first split, my major clients have been with me for a large number of years, and NO they cannot take possesion of the shares, BUT IT IS OF NO MATTER in reality !

That is, I think, the basic difference between broking and spreadbetting. With the latter the client cannot take possession of those shares.

It is EXACTLY the same (in forex and futures) as spread betting, without the WONDERFUL tax advantages !

A broker lodges your trade at the exchange. A spreadbet company does not. If he does, it's his choice, for hedging purposes. That is why the government terms them gamblers and there is no tax. Officially. However if you make enough money out of it, rest assured, the old taxman will be after you for income tax.

In equities, a "broker" DOES register your shares, but in forex that is not the case !

your last sentence has dashed my hopes completely --- i was going to sail to england on the morning tide to make an additional 28 - 40% on my trading and now youve put the kabosh on those plans !

"drop the sails me hearties --- split says its NG !"

Split

OH WELL

mp

 

[dcraig1]

Hi mp,

If your client wants---I know that almost all are very short term---but, could he take possesion of those shares on the expiry date?

That is, I think, the basic difference between broking and spreadbetting. With the latter the client cannot take possession of those shares.

A broker lodges your trade at the exchange. A spreadbet company does not. If he does, it's his choice, for hedging purposes. That is why the government terms them gamblers and there is no tax. Officially. However if you make enough money out of it, rest assured, the old taxman will be after you for income tax.

Split

Which of course touches on an important issue. How safe is your money with a bookie that goes into receivership ? I wouln't be suprised if client accounts were at the end of the list of creditors.

 

[mp6140]

Which of course touches on an important issue. How safe is your money with a bookie that goes into receivership ? I wouln't be suprised if client accounts were at the end of the list of creditors.

==========================================================

now this i cant argue with, which is why i use VERY well established "brokers" and would do the same if i were working with "spread betters". Ive heard Cantors is very reliable, but of course have no personal experience as they have a big sign in their window stating "YANKS NEED NOT APPLY !"

it is, obviously, one of the really huge problems with forex --- the almost completely "wild west" manner in which companies pop up and drop out, go bankrupt and show up somewhere else. with its popularity and increasing number of "traders" entering the market, there will become a day of reckoning sooner or later, and much more stringent rules will have to be applied, which will also probably increase the costs, but such is the manner of "civilization !"

mp

 

[Priceman]

Hi, my name's Martin and I'm a GAMBLER....

Whhoooo, I feel redeemed!

 

[Splitlink]

OK, so where does that leave NDFs in FX? (Non Deliverable Forwards). These are to all intents and purposes kinda CFDs / spreadbets for the wholesale FX market, used to facilitate trading (be it for speculative , asset allocation or hedging purposes) in emerging market currencies where the central bank has imposed currency controls on the onshore cash market.

Pricing compared to G7 FX is very very opaque, and pretty much at the mercy of the club of people trading and market making in good size. When the trades come to maturity they 'fix' against an official rate a couple of days before value date, and you pay / recieve your P+L in USD usually (but NEVER in local currency - that's the 'non deliverable' part of the equation).

See what I mean - so many of thes definitions, when you get right down to it, are really blurred.

My $0.02

GJ

Don't know. It's a bit out of my depth. I just go for the indices and shares.

Split

 

[Splitlink]

Sorry split - wasn't having a go at you - hope that's not how it came across. Just offering up a few example for discussion.

GJ

No, I know that and I didn't take it that way.

I think we were both on the "other" thread and, perhaps, still a bit jumpy.

Split

 

[fernanj]

This thread certainly had a clash of 'egos' at stake .. Spreadbetter or Trader, we must remember that everything in life is a "GAMBLE" there are no certainties....only death!!

 

[mp6140]

This thread certainly had a clash of 'egos' at stake .. Spreadbetter or Trader, we must remember that everything in life is a "GAMBLE" there are no certainties....only death!!

oh my --- split and i were hoping that was an "option !"

but i think weve pretty much killed it graveyard dead at this point !

mp

 

[MrGecko]

I'm with MP on this one; think this thread has lasted it's course. It's poiniant that the last point made is "there is only one thing certain in life, and that is death......

(....and, unless your a SB'er; taxes)"

 

[Paul71]

SBing is called SBing because it's a bet, not a trade, because the SB prices are only indicitive. You are not exchanging contracts with anybody!

But if you don't understand how the markets work, both DMA and SB, are about as much use as t*ts on a snake.

 

[mp6140]

SBing is called SBing because it's a bet, not a trade, because the SB prices are only indicitive. You are not exchanging contracts with anybody!

But if you don't understand how the markets work, both DMA and SB, are about as much use as t*ts on a snake.

========================================================

kinda thought we were just gonna put this one to bed, so ill say it once more ---

IT DOESNT MATTER !

only one fact matters here, besides the profit, and thats with the laws in the UK --- if you make 30 million pounds a year, you still cant go to a bank and get a mortgage cause youre a "gambler" and not viably employed.

of course, make that much and just buy the silly house !

in the states, sb's are called "brokers" and you pay taxes on your profits, which you can offset with your losses and any other business expenses.

Direct access is readily available, and as i understand it, much cheaper for entry than you peeps !

semantics and legal definition make spread betting "gambling", and the NO taxes thingie is WONDERFUL, but of WHAT real discussion is it --- the MONEY is the reward, and one can get it in either manner !

mp

 

[tar]

Neither forex platforms including ECN ; its not trading .

Lets say u have ECN account in us$ and u bought! NZD/$ could u withdraw your money in NZD$ ? no u cant , u can withdraw only in us$ ! even u bought NZD$ ! . And if u want to withdraw all your money u should close ! all ur positions b4 u withdraw all your money .This is not trading , it is not real , this is betting .

 

[smoodi]

Betting / trading...... dont really care.....only interested in making money and as a day trading scalper if is far easier in my experience to make my pips with direct or ECN access than it is with some intermediary quoting me his spread and his current market price which is a further 2-3 pips behing the real market price.
Just my experience.......I prefer a level playing field and paying a commission. When I see "spread "rather than commision i think "another bandit screwing the little guy out of his pips"

Shay