Does anyone here work for a SB company?

[jackjones]

I don't work for a SB company and my job is not Finance related but I've been using a market maker for about a year now. I initially starting with profits from "real" account knowing full well I might lose the lot. I started because I wanted exposure to greater leverage and different markets (fx, indexes, commodities), something I couldn't get with my capital or knowledge elsewhere.

I've been trading it part time and can say the learning curve was steep and the ride has been up and down but my initial capital remains and it has afforded me the occasional luxury when I get on a winner.

Now I've never paid anyone for lessons and have developed my own style for reading a market. I could have spent this money on a course or fancy system but chose not to. In this respect I'm grateful SB firms exist as an alternative.

And as far as not honouring prices I've never had trouble except in news related frenzies and even then I get a reqote. While I still watch these events I rarely trade it unless it's completely obvious. I really have no complaints while being skeptical this whole time.

So, nothing makes up for the lessons I've learnt from them in charting, money/risk management and dealing with your own greed/fears that "real" market experience offers.

 

[zigglewigler]

Hi,

I try to open or close trades when prices are NOT moving fast and get my requests honoured at the requested level. The times I get re-quotes are when prices ARE moving fast and/or the market is thin.

Overall I am happy with CMC's service and have not found any evidence of "shenanigans".

Having said that, I don't think I'd use spreadbetting for day trading. If you REALLY need instant response then you'd better have direct access and capital to match.

Cheers,

Mark

Once in a while you'll see posts by those that aren't compensating for their inability by talking via their rectal trumpets.

I'm tired of hearing 'bitches' sounding off about CMC and others. Chose the right instrument for the market and time frame you trade. Can it be made any simpler?

I'm with Mark, though I don't trade stocks, with SB's I take the longer perspective with FTSE Sectors, rather than chasing crumbs. For day trading I've adopted e-minis.

 

[MarvinS]

Yes for about 5 years now! Shoot if you have any gripes - we usually get it in the neck anyway.
Ha ha!

 

[khi]

I used to work for a spreadbetting company and having looked at all SB'ers accounts, I can hand on heart say thay over 85% SB'ers lose money. Yes you could say SB companies make their money on the spread but if you know that 85% of your clients lose money, then is there a need to buy a futures contract on the real market to back them? Simply wait for your punter to slip up and pocket their money. Especially with punters that bet with less than £5 a stake. The transaction cost of backing a £1 staker SB in the real markets makes it economicial unprofitable to sustain in terms of resources of time and money.

Is there a reason why the losing rate is so high at 85%. has it got anything to do with the SB firms manipulating this figure by declining trades if they go against them?

 

[danfreek]

khi, to be honest, I think it's probably about the same figure in the real markets. Most people do not succeed in trading.

That doesn't stop any of us trying though!

 

[MarvinS]

We are not suppose to say that 85% are losers - thats not pulling the company line. The problem with the industry we are in is that we have to be nice to loosers and horrid to winners. Which according to those statistics, makes us utterly nice people.
I have noticed everyone's thirst for knowledge, people attending seminars in their droves. How many people go to seminars before they ever touch the markets?
Do SB firms manipulate prices - and if they did it would only be for 1 or 2 ticks maximum. Do you think you could win more often if you were given market spread all the time. The answer may still be no!

 

[danfreek]

Indeed, it's not the spread that makes me lose when I do, it's poor trading, plain and simple. A large spread just amplifies the effect.

 

[khi]

We are not suppose to say that 85% are losers - thats not pulling the company line. The problem with the industry we are in is that we have to be nice to loosers and horrid to winners. Which according to those statistics, makes us utterly nice people.
I have noticed everyone's thirst for knowledge, people attending seminars in their droves. How many people go to seminars before they ever touch the markets?
Do SB firms manipulate prices - and if they did it would only be for 1 or 2 ticks maximum. Do you think you could win more often if you were given market spread all the time. The answer may still be no!

yes fair point MarvinS, i have not been to any seminars and i have learnt how to trade better from my own and other trader mistakes and many mentors in the past 8 years of my trading life have also helped me alot.

But i think the point is the hidden spreads. When ppl like myself who trade actively, i want to know exactly what i am going to pay. and i dont want to be shaken out just becos there a sudden increase in spread and other problems such as frozen screen etc. Trading normal market price is risky and uncertain as it is, I dont need any of that kind of behaviour to wind me up even more.

and also when ppl say deal4free give market spread, thats good if u close ur trade on the day and leave no long positions running overnite, but have u noticed the amount of overnite interest they charge u? its huge.

BTW i use DMA to trade CFDs becos i can leave my orders on the order book to save me having to pay unnecessary spread. although my orders do not get filled every time but i can still hit the book. with cheap commission, its still better than having to pay spread plus huge interest charge to SB on long positions and what is more important, theres no hidden spread or extra uncertainties.

 

[khi]

"Do SB firms manipulate prices - and if they did it would only be for 1 or 2 ticks maximum. Do you think you could win more often if you were given market spread all the time. The answer may still be no!"

o sorry, i cant really answer ur question, simply i dont use SB to trade, but remember, every 1-2 ticks they receive is 1-2 ticks u lose.

 

[MarvinS]

khi, as with every trading platform their is always good and bad points. That is why not one CFD provider or SB firm has cornered the complete market. In the past five years i agree that CMC and IG have part cornered the markets and that is why CMC may list for £700m. However
there are many smaller fish SB firms that have done very well considering. Its a balance of a good trading system, spreads and service that most traders are after.
To be honest Direct Market Access attracted me at first, all excited about leaving orders on the underlying, then i suddenly realised i was paying through the nose for it and that you are being squeezed into placing larger trades.
I have always stuck to SB because nowadays the spreads are so tight and the all round packages are generally very good. Beware with CMC they are very deceptive in that they quote you narrow spreads, but you are paid 3% below Libid and you pay 3% above Libor. So for long term trades you get SHAFTED!!!!!
I worked for finspreads for 4 years and i remember we were one of the first SB's to launch online trading. It was very exciting, however we didnt quite realise how it would take off. Within months we would take 10,000 trades a day. But the system would regularly crash for hours or days on end.
Find a trading firm that seems dynamic enough to offer you a good package and not one that fobs you off as just another client. We all want service, a bang for our buck!

 

[khi]

thanks MarvinS,

i agree with u saying that there are goods and bads re what trading instruments to use, and whether it suits u will depend on ur trading habbits including sizes, frequency of trades and also the overall package.

but according to u, may i say DMA cfd is more suitable for bigger size traders and SB is good for smaller size punters or even inexperienced traders(please correct me if i am wrong)?

 

[Spreadbetteur]

MarvinS

In your experience, what are the tricks of the business, which favour the SB company, which we the betteurs are not told about ?

Do betteurs receive the same feed once in a position, or is it adjusted, depending on which direction they are in ?

What I find happens (with Capital Spreads, see seperate thread) is that when I enter a trade it is usually filled imediately, however.....................If there is a delay and or price moves in my favour, I get "Price Expired" and no fill. Though if it happens to move against me, I never get the 'Price Expired" ticket, there is always a fill. Funny that ?

I should say though, this issue a side, I am very happy with Capital Spreads, especially after using D4F before

Anyway, I would love a few gems from you on SB Company manipulation.

 

[MarvinS]

Khi,
Yes frequency of trading is another issue for some one that works full time. What about yourself how do you fit in trading and working?
I suppose SB trading is for smaller clients but none the less i have scene some massive trader within SB. CFD dealers give the impression that they are omnipotent in there size of dealings, well in actual fact this is because alot is institutional trading is done via CFD. Spread betting is tax free and thus no instituaions would benefit from tax exemptions. i am sure if the gov.t said to all firms that they could hedge all securities tax free via a spread bet, size would increase 1million fold.
I still believe DMA makes you feel more empowered as a trader! As a spread betting fan i would say come back to the dark side.

 

[MarvinS]

Spreadbetteur,
I have to be honest with you i have never ever scene manipulation of prices that has significantly effected a clients position, but saying that we use to read clients. This is a trick that Dealers use to be able to get away with when spreads were wider, for example ftse Sep. underlying price is 5001-5001.5 we may of bid it up in anticipation of a buyer. And without bragging 8 times out of 10 we use to be right. This doesnt happen anymore because spreads have become too tight.
I wouldnt know about Capital Spreads system, although i have heard it is good - what you have to realise is that many traders want to trade at the busiest times and the most volatile. I dont think anyone has built a system that has any sort of artificial intelligence, that can read your mind when you are trading. Most of the time traders will trade in sheep like formations, this means you are hitting an SB price all at once. And based on this you are being dealer vetted.
I am a dealer at Global Trader and we do not dealer vet, the system is automated and as such we generate a price that matches the markets tolerance at any one point in time.

 

[khi]

i am a trader at an asset managment house, so i can fit in my trading with work.

yeah CGT exemption is one of the most powerful selling points for SB, but the majority small and inexperienced punters must realise by now that, according to the quote at the beginning, 85% of them will never have to pay CGT anyway as they have never made any gains. besides is it really possible for a SB punters trading with 1 pound a point to make enough profits that can exceed the CGT allowance? pesonally, i dont think u need to ask ppl to come back to the dark side of SB, simply cos once they are in they can never get out.

 

[MarvinS]

You are correct, but their will always be a fresh flow of traders or wanna be traders that come through the pipeline. Or even experienced traders. I speak to a client that works as chief treasurer for a bank and has done for the past 20years. Some people dont care about the spread/ no sorry have less of an inclination to move to tighter spreads, because they get a decent honest service. Which means if i wanted to buy 20,000 barclays now and the underlying is at 535, why should i be filled at 545? Service is about knowing your clients and not screwing them over. I am sorry but i whole heartedly believe that service is just as key in this industry too tight spreads and instant snap of the finger execution.
Fair play to CMC they have really cleaned up but all i can say is that many peoples experiences of SB has turned them away - but you wont be gone forwever! Perhaps one day when you are driving you ferrari down the embankment you may decide to place a spread trade. ha ha!

 

[khi]

You are correct, but their will always be a fresh flow of traders or wanna be traders that come through the pipeline. Or even experienced traders. I speak to a client that works as chief treasurer for a bank and has done for the past 20years. Some people dont care about the spread/ no sorry have less of an inclination to move to tighter spreads, because they get a decent honest service. Which means if i wanted to buy 20,000 barclays now and the underlying is at 535, why should i be filled at 545? Service is about knowing your clients and not screwing them over. I am sorry but i whole heartedly believe that service is just as key in this industry too tight spreads and instant snap of the finger execution.
Fair play to CMC they have really cleaned up but all i can say is that many peoples experiences of SB has turned them away - but you wont be gone forwever! Perhaps one day when you are driving you ferrari down the embankment you may decide to place a spread trade. ha ha!

ok agree, but many DMA providers offer good services too. well it can go on forever, its up to the punters to decide. But for myself, i will stick with DMA cfd's for transparency in price, costs and higher degree of certainties.

o by the way, being a chief treasurer of a bank does not make u an experienced trader though.

 

[MarvinS]

True Khi - the power of choice well i wish you all the best with your trades. But if you ever wanna talk about markets i'm your man. gt247 out.

 

[khi]

True Khi - the power of choice well i wish you all the best with your trades. But if you ever wanna talk about markets i'm your man. gt247 out.

yeah defo


cheers

 

[MarvinS]

Steve Spray - is a legend in Spread Betting is he here now!