SOCRATES
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"ONENESS"ZDO said:No. The transformation has nothing to do with going from one to the other.
The transformation is YOU becoming big enough to 'contain' them both at a psychic level.
"ONENESS"ZDO said:No. The transformation has nothing to do with going from one to the other.
The transformation is YOU becoming big enough to 'contain' them both at a psychic level.
Yes, ZDO, I will soon but not now because I have sudden comms. traffic.ZDO said:Soc,
Thank you for that contribution. You’ve made that point many times and in many ways - (… and here come the jibes ) Most traders keep looking for tricks and shortcuts and there are NONE.
Re: “many of the obstacles are invisible” My ‘solution’ is constantly and passionately resetting the “list”. These obstacles only remain unknown only if they are never approached…
re:
” It is impossible to transfer it by writing about it, discussing it, showing it, demonstrating it, explaining it, recounting it, disseminating it, or trying to impart it. I used to think it could be done, now I know it can't.” I am agreeing with that more and more. I continue posting at all for one reason – one person. I no longer post for the many… I post for just the one trader who will look back and say “but for those posts I would have stayed in my box…” As I have asked you before, I urge you to do the same and ignore all the other stuff.
Obviously, what a bunch of posters are saying up here along these same lines (basically - that the work on the trader is equally important with work on the trading) is being heavily discounted. Maybe they will listen to Mark Douglas who says about beliefs (and remember, beliefs are just one part of the big ‘list’ ) “actively stepping into a process … of neutralizing self sabataging beliefs… just because markets represents… unlimited flow of opportunities it doesn’t mean our identities are structured in a way where we’re willing to give ourselves … wealth… these inner forces, if not reconciled… will act on your perceptions…will act on your behavior … and you will end up doing things… that cause yourself huge drawdowns. You…have to be able to recognize (these maladaptive inner processes on your list –insert by zdo)… and know how to do something about it… it requires a unique mind set … it requires an intense amount of work” This is from a guy who has coached hundreds of traders and has only met ONE in all those hundreds whose ‘list’ was nearly clear at the beginning ie who was ‘clear’ and ready to learn about how to find an edge and trade successfully… everybody is at a different place today. All I’m doing is encouraging you to move and move on levels you don’t usually consider. Most people lose because they “bring a whole plethora of issues… a huge gap… successful trader” (more Mark Douglas)
If you have time, expand on "turns and bites back" Thanks in advance.
All the best
zdo
CityTrader[B said:You want to know how to make money? give me 2 minutes and I'll show you how:- Buy low, sell high. Now give me 2 decades and I'll teach you when it's low, and when it's high.[/B]
There is no global conpsiracy to stop newbies reaching the holy grail. All you need is hard work, experience, ability, focus, luck, and more.
CT
I am not writing what I am writing, and in the way I am writing it for you, DB.dbphoenix said:There's no essential conflict. I actually agree with the kernel of what Bertie said, that one learns through experience and not through reading about it. Duh. But does one have to be a gladiator bursting through turnstiles?
The problem is that the ratio of form to substance is at least 20:1, the form in this case being bloat and, yes, hot air. It's not the confrontation that's the balloon. It's the pretentiousness of the posts. If they took shape, they'd have to be nailed to the floor.
SOCRATES said:You don't have to be affronted or threatened by it because you don't understand it.
Just hang around, you know, and you may learn something you don't know and that may help you to evolve to a higher level of awareness which is what you need, even if you yourself do not realise it, consciously or otherwise.
No, you are under a misconception.dbphoenix said:I understand it perfectly well, gladiator. And the effort you make to cloak the business of trading in a cloud of mysticism is, at best, comical, which is, I suppose, why you won an award for being amusing.
SOCRATES said:You are the goldfish in the bowl, and I am looking down on you from a great height.
The problem is you refuse to have a realisation about this.
Ah ! Welcome back RUDEBOY, nice to have you back again.Let me brief you on what's been happening.RUDEBOY said:I've read this thread with interest, the same old questions and answers always seem to resurface. It's a reoccuring nightmare in some respects. Everybody has answered Millano's thread, but, nobody has actually read it and looked at it from an angle of anything less than one dimensional. Who are the few who are succeeding? Can it be possible for the majority to succeed? Are we talking about futures, stock, day trading, investment...what 'few' are we talking about for definate here? Let's say we're talking about the good old futures day trader....they always seem to take the brunt for this type of thread. Why is it only the few that make it and not the majority? What laws govern this 95% of failure statistic? Would 95% of the world population fail in thier endeavours within the market or does the market only attract a certain type of person who is destined to fail because of the reason of why they are attracted to it? The markets involve risk! Can you overcome it? I mean, let's face it, it's quite satisfying to say you overcome risk on a regular basis, isn't it? Most gamblers fail, for one reason or another, this transpires into the markets. I hope i've not offended anybody and i hope you can see what i am saying. Don't have nightmares.
RUDEBOY said:Who are the few who are succeeding?
All the things you list are inabilites that can be fixed through work. I said in my post that the work needed will vary. Some may need to work on any or all of the inabilites you list. The inabilities will only cause a temporary state of unprofitability. The choice to quit rather than do the necessary work to fix those inabilities is what will cause failure.SOCRATES said:Well I can tell you it is not about the work at all. It has to do with inabilities.
You will be horrified at the variety and quantitiy and intensity of inabilities that a lot of people suffer from. Some of them are really surprising. They have this effect because they are unexpected. And they are unexpected because the individuals are effectively able to hide them until an occasion arises in which they are tested. Then the Inability reveals itself.
Here are some for you to consider :~
I cannot follow the movement of the bars.
I get confused by all the colours.
I am not interested in sitting there doing nothing, I just want to get on with it.
I hate wasting time, I really do.
I wish there were some sounds, as I cannot relate to movement visually, but to sounds..yes.
I dont have the patience to sit there, I think I will go and mow the lawn ( with a position open, and without a stop)
I fall asleep in front of the monitor.
I don't understand it, please explain it again...I don't understand....please again...I don't understand ....please again...I do understand .....(he does not really at all)
I am not going to use a tight stop, I am going to use a wide stop, 60 points...
I have my own ideas which are better.
I get so emotional about this, I find it very stressful.
I have to make money every day.
If I cannot make £5000 a week then I am not interested in trading (Capital £12000)
I cannot do mental arithmetic at all, I need a calculator.
......................................and other patent inabilities.
Therefore it is inabilities that cause people to doom themselves not an inability to work.
This is exactly my point. The successful ones are the ones who went away and did the work. I'm sure they all started out with some form of "inability" that they needed to work on. They did the work and became successful.SOCRATES said:A few years ago I used to do seminars for people who wanted to learn about this business and were interested in becoming traders.
The obedient and disciplined ones went away and worked and became successful.
This is the human equivilant of "The Crab Principle". Put a bunch of crabs into a cage with no lid. Make sure the cage is small enough that the crabs could get out if they wanted to. You know what will happen? No crab will ever get out of that cage! This is because as each tries to climb out of the cage the others will pull it back down. In the end no crab gets out.SOCRATES said:The disobedient and undisciplined ones gathered in a group to grumble about their lack of success, convenenienly for them by, you know, overlooking their own inabilities. They then proceeded to pester the successful ones.
The successful ones at first were sympathetic and helpful....but ....found themselves having to suffer unwelcome and distracting invasions to their privacy and mindset.
This situation became progressively worse as with increasing insistence the unsuccessful ones tried to invalidate, damage and impair the successful ones and to try to convert them to their attitude, which was their reality and the opposite of the other group. What happened ?
The successful ones in order to get rid ot the nuisance, now pretend they are not successful and as a consequence, finally get peace and quiet to get on with their progress.
The successful ones now disconnect totally and make more and more progress while the others who have succeeded in totally corrupting themselves and anyone who will listen, fall behind fast and eventually fail.
They do not achieve satisfaction at the expense of the failure of the others, they achieve satisfaction at their own achievement which is something very diffferent to what you imply.
Because of the ergonomic Mandarin keyboard ?RUDEBOY said:ZDO, why do you type the way that you do?
To keep from being overwhelmed ?RUDEBOY said:ZDO, why do you type the way that you do?
ZDO said:RUDEBOY, why do you type the way that you do?
I'm going to assume you are referring to those less tangible things that make up a successful trader. For example discipline, focus, patience, controlling fear and greed, being willing to let success into your life and not subconciously sabotaging yourself, trading what the market tells you and not what you would like it to be telling you..........all those "esoteric somethings" for want of a better way of putting it.ZDO said:PKFFW,
I agree with you completely – almost . I especially appreciate “The choice to quit rather than do the necessary work to fix those inabilities is what will cause failure”
However, some of the things we are attempting, with some difficulty, to discuss are simply not in the realm of “learning” as the term is generally accepted.
Also, believe me, unsuccessful traders spin far far far more mystique than do successful traders and wannabe’s do far more pulling crabs back down (on a relational level) than do successful traders. Truly successful traders are humble, grateful, present and ego is a non – issue. You may be confusing winning young guns with successful traders. Give them a few years and see if they’re still around…
zdo
JumpOff said:These same individuals will probably fail at being scientists, preachers, politicians, farmers, PR hacks, etc.. It's not only about 'reviewing charts and making plans.' It's about a stunning lack of curiousity; If the sun came up in the West tomorrow morning, these are the folks who could somehow fit it into their worldview without calling into question everything we think we know about our solar system.... They have yet to seriously question the core statements expressed by their parents, pastors, government adminstrators, teachers, etc... (I don't why they are this way - it seems almost antihuman to me. )
Although I have met many of these 'uncurious folk', I don't find them to be in the majority. I hope you are not lumping me in with those who insist that 'trading is impossibly difficult.' I think trading is about as difficult as playing the violin. Lots of folks could learn to play without great difficulty; few want to.
JO