Ukraine invasion

CavaliereVerde said:
NATO was brain dead with Trump according to Macron, now Putin decided to revive it. 👏👏👏👏
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You are too hasty. Big disagreements in NATO. Wait and see where NATO takes the EU. Abandoning EU and German leadership and jumping on board the US-led NATO is a mistake imo.

I also think the Germans are playing a clever game of keeping low profile and let the dust settle. Let the big wigs play out their hands. Clever imo.
 
Atilla said:
So why during all that time no attempt was made to re-enforce Mariupol defenders?
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It could be done at the very beginning but they gave priority to defending Kiev and they were succesfull.

Atilla said:
Why not open a corridor and send one of those Hollywood style rescue missions with helicopters to rescue the brave defenders?
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It is more than 100km controlled by russians, possible but very risky and expensive.
Atilla said:
Why were the Avoz Battalion just left there by themselves if Ukraine is winning the war?
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The counteroffensive is very slow, the battallion had to resist at least for another quarter and it was impossible.

Atilla said:
Zelensky rejected peace talks played the hard man and got what exactly?
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I think talks will be back when the battallion will be succesfully exchanged with russian prisoners.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
It could be done at the very beginning but they gave priority to defending Kiev and they were succesfull.


It is more than 100km controlled by russians, possible but very risky and expensive.

The counteroffensive is very slow, the battallion had to resist at least for another quarter and it was impossible.


I think talks will be back when the battallion will be succesfully exchanged with russian prisoners.
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Aren't you the two terrible CVs pushing the agenda Ukraine is winning the war? Sounds like excuses to me.
 
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Which "agenda" ? :D
I don't think our discussions here can influence the war.
I am interpreting facts, you have a different interpretation.
At the moment the existence of Ukraine is not anymore at stake.
They do not need to rush and they can't destroy everything like russians, it is their country, their homes.
I think we will be back to what was under ukranian control before February by the end of the year.

Putin is a mobster, to deal with him you have to show that you are strong.
There was nothing to talk as long as Kiev was under siege, when he will understand thare is nothing more to acheive than it will be time to talk.

Now that azov regiment surrendered he can claim his "denazification" has been successful... :sneaky:
 
counter_violent said:
If these Ukrainian soldiers were considered Nazi's, there is zero chance they would have been evacuated from Mauriopol and exchanged for Russian prisoner troops.
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c_v,
This is blatant MSM propaganda in which they manipulate the way events are described to give a very different impression as to what's going on than is happening in reality. Evacuated my ar$e, these troops surrendered!

Western Audiences Have a Right to Be Accurately Informed About this War
Excellent btl comment from 'Mark', referring to MSM he writes:
"Empire of Lies.
They lie about covid. They lie about climate change. They lie about Brexit. They lie about immigration. They lie about race. They lie about sex. They lie about Russia. They lie about every group or nation targeted by our elites. They lie about Ukraine.
This incident highlighted by Noah Carl is just an unusually obvious example."

Both the article and comment are spot on, IMO.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
c_v,
This is blatant MSM propaganda in which they manipulate the way events are described to give a very different impression as to what's going on than is happening in reality. Evacuated my ar$e, these troops surrendered!

Western Audiences Have a Right to Be Accurately Informed About this War
Excellent btl comment from 'Mark', referring to MSM he writes:
"Empire of Lies.
They lie about covid. They lie about climate change. They lie about Brexit. They lie about immigration. They lie about race. They lie about sex. They lie about Russia. They lie about every group or nation targeted by our elites. They lie about Ukraine.
This incident highlighted by Noah Carl is just an unusually obvious example."

Both the article and comment are spot on, IMO.
Tim.
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Much like here some people cant tell difference between an invasion and intervention.

Fancy invading and taking over a whole country of 40m people with 100k men.

To think 20k have already been killed too.

West lies and deceit will soon run out.

Amazing that people believe the tosh they are told.

Surprised the Russians don't get credit for bussing them out of their misery. Also, for a successful siege limiting loss of life.

In contrast freaking US marines shout beat up and parade prisoners and fighters captured with hands tied behind their back. Made to stand up in a line and of course hooded to deprive the body of light n oxygen to disorient before Cia interrogation.


The sickening hypocrisy of the US and supporting West.

Do people have a conscience about what is right and what is wrong?

People see what they want to believe and are in denial imo.
 
Atilla said:
Fancy invading and taking over a whole country of 40m people with 100k men.
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Yes a pretty stupid idea I agree.
About the rest of your "intervention" you keep talking about US and CIA and MSM.

Maybe it is all a US conspiracy... convincing Putin to attack Ukraine to expose tha bad conditions of russian army and end his regime.
 
Atilla said:
with 100k men.
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not 100k but 150-190k
To give some perspective:
Italian army has 100k active personnel
French army has 120k active personnel
UK army has 140k active personnel

At the beginning everyone was seeing the size of the attacking force and everyone was thinking Ukraine would fall in 3 days, they failed so after 3 months you say it was not an invasion...
 
CavaliereVerde said:
At the beginning everyone was seeing the size of the attacking force and everyone was thinking Ukraine would fall in 3 days, they failed so after 3 months you say it was not an invasion...
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CV,
The point you're overlooking is that "everyone" is/was everyone other than Putin and the Kremlin. For all you know, they achieved exactly what they set out to do in the first three days. Anyone (and everyone in this instance) can speculate what the objective is/was and then say Putin failed when it's not achieved. It's like me speculating your darwinex objective is to return an annual profit of 100% and, when you 'only' achieve 50%, I accuse you of abject failure. In reality, your objective may only have been 25%, so your 50% return is in fact a spectacular success. Ergo, I'm afraid your argument is mere speculation and projecting onto Putin what you think he's trying to achieve and, as such, is worthless.
Tim.
 
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timsk said:
The point you're overlooking is that "everyone" was everyone other than Putin and the Kremlin.
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Ukraine has been attacked from every available border for one month.
Kiev was attacked and almost sieged.
Macron phoned Putin at least 3 times and said he wanted all Ukraine.
Before I posted a video where Putin was asking ukranian army to turn to his side and remove Zelensky, that was the meanaing of denazification and demilitarization.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
Ukraine has been attacked from every available border for one month.
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Out of 7 borders with other countries, Russian entered from one other than her own. Belarus.

That's 2 out of 7.
If we include the Black Sea then 3.
4 if you include the sky.
5 if you include tunnels below ground.

You are verging on superfragilisticalidocious.
 
Russia attacked Ukraine from north, east, and south with an army of the size comparable to an average european country.
I can't read Putin's mind but his words are here, internet never forgets, no ministry of truth...
The first goal was a military coup to remove a gov of neonazis and drug addicts.
These are Putin's words, not "western propaganda".
Maybe there are no 20k russian casualties, that is a number enhanced by ukranianan propaganda but what is pretty evident is that russian losses are much higher than ukranian.
 
CavaliereVerde said:
Russia attacked Ukraine from north, east, and south with an army of the size comparable to an average european country.
I can't read Putin's mind but his words are here, internet never forgets, no ministry of truth...
The first goal was a military coup to remove a gov of neonazis and drug addicts.
These are Putin's words, not "western propaganda".
Maybe there are no 20k russian casualties, that is a number enhanced by ukranianan propaganda but what is pretty evident is that russian losses are much higher than ukranian.
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I was simply alluding to the dramatisation of how big and bold Ukraine's actions are and how belittling of Russia your words are. That's all.

We did point out that Russia is trying to limit the loss of life and pretty clear who to point and shoot, unlike Ukraine's response under mixed civilian presence. You really are on a mission from what I can see.

To compare US offensive, they would have launched many missile and air attacks on ground forces in all sorts of places and simply state civilians were collateral damage. Remember Iraq. Your typical response is this has nothing to do with the US but I'd say it has everything... EVERYTHING to do with the US and NATO. Go compare. ;)

If Russia was trying to limit the death of soldiers and hated the enemy then tactics would certainly be different would you not agree?

Yes objectives are still there and agreed. Regime change is highly desirable to one that will forget about joining NATO. That is no secret.
 
Atilla said:
To compare US offensive, they would have launched many missile and air attacks on ground forces in all sorts of places and simply state civilians were collateral damage. Remember Iraq. Your typical response is this has nothing to do with the US but I'd say it has everything... EVERYTHING to do with the US and NATO. Go compare. ;)
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You keep talking about US while here we are discussing about Ukraine and Russia.
I agree about US hypocrisy and lack of consistency.
US destroyed IRAQ and Bush is a war criminal, but US is not always the same, Obama is not Bush, Biden is not Bush.
Has Russia invaded Ukraine because US invaded IRAQ? NO
Atilla said:
If Russia was trying to limit the death of soldiers and hated the enemy then tactics would certainly be different would you not agree?
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I don't agree, their behaviour in Mariupol and Kharkiv is not consistent with limiting casualties.
They refused to take back their casualties, they neither respect their soldiers.
 
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