Best Thread Trading Naked
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Bloodhound
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Yeah - not sure what happened there?
BTW - I assume you will be retiring off the profits from GJ this morning ;-) Relentless in the way it's moving up.
Just shows what a few lines can do!!
Just a thought but, as you may recall, I am a great believer in fractals, trends within trends etc., and one thing to bear in mind is that a run like this has to end in some higher timeframe consolidation whilst everyone scratches their heads and works out what to do next. Something I noticed a long time ago trading cable M15 (and then M5) was that I'd make some great cash one day and then give it back the next. Why? Because consolidation has to happen and there's a good chance that a good run one day will be followed by consolidation the next, and these consolidation phases, whilst great for the higher tf chaps wanting to add to positions etc. are a killer for us on M5. This is why, more and more, you'll see me make my cash and then step aside, in some cases for the rest of the week as there is no point in giving it back unnecessarily.
Bloodhound
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Cable
It's looking to me as if price may have moved to far north for this level to bear any relevance to immediate proceedings but might be one to watch if there's a sell-off. FWIW, if it does start to come off I'll be there on M1 looking to get in on the action...
It's looking to me as if price may have moved to far north for this level to bear any relevance to immediate proceedings but might be one to watch if there's a sell-off. FWIW, if it does start to come off I'll be there on M1 looking to get in on the action...
HawkTrader
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Morning lads!
I see you've appeared to make big profits so far, I on the other hand made two trades on Cable, 1 win and 1 loss, and then when my next few setups came I just couldn't take them for some weird reason. Never had this feeling before so strongly, but it's very likely because my week has been a loser even though there have been some good and great setups. I've come to a conclusion that every trade we make, every day, week, month and year we are learning. Nobody has mastered the markets, not even 'masters' themselfs imo. What we are learning though, is not the 'markets' (whatever that is!) but indeed ourselfs, and the way we react to trades, esspecially exits. I'm learning about me, not about markets, and that is what will make me and you profitable.
-Owain
I see you've appeared to make big profits so far, I on the other hand made two trades on Cable, 1 win and 1 loss, and then when my next few setups came I just couldn't take them for some weird reason. Never had this feeling before so strongly, but it's very likely because my week has been a loser even though there have been some good and great setups. I've come to a conclusion that every trade we make, every day, week, month and year we are learning. Nobody has mastered the markets, not even 'masters' themselfs imo. What we are learning though, is not the 'markets' (whatever that is!) but indeed ourselfs, and the way we react to trades, esspecially exits. I'm learning about me, not about markets, and that is what will make me and you profitable.
-Owain
Bloodhound
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Wise words IMO. If you want to chuck some charts on the thread feel free to. Cable has been nowhere near as generous as GJ today though with some nasty chop going into the LSE open.
tenbobtrader
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"At present I'm just watching the majors and have a few levels marked on to see what happens when price gets to them"
we carry out analysis and its natural for the mind to wander - pickout future levels etc etc -
form a view - we wait for our level - our setup
almost oblivious to the fact that you may have just infact seen a better setup while the mind fixed someplace else - almost like the minds relaxed in the moment because it perceives there is nothing to do - when infact there might be :idea:
no wish to derail thread - just a thought based on my own intra day experience that sprung to mind when I read your post Rob
hope it makes some sense
later
Andy
we carry out analysis and its natural for the mind to wander - pickout future levels etc etc -
form a view - we wait for our level - our setup
almost oblivious to the fact that you may have just infact seen a better setup while the mind fixed someplace else - almost like the minds relaxed in the moment because it perceives there is nothing to do - when infact there might be :idea:
no wish to derail thread - just a thought based on my own intra day experience that sprung to mind when I read your post Rob
hope it makes some sense
later
Andy
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HawkTrader
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Here we are. It's quite funny really, the trade I couldn't take could have resulted in nice profits... it just goes to show it isn't the markets that make us win/lose but ourselves. In theory, that means 100% wins are possible, you just have to learn to always pick the winners. 
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Bloodhound
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Hi Andy,
Thank you so much for that. A very interesting post IMO and in fact I think sits incredibly well in this thread. If I have understood you correctly, what you are saying is that it's important to keep one's eyes open and not get fixated on any one pair, level or, for me on M5, most importantly, direction, as there are always new opportunities appearing all the time.
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you.
All the best
Rob
Thank you so much for that. A very interesting post IMO and in fact I think sits incredibly well in this thread. If I have understood you correctly, what you are saying is that it's important to keep one's eyes open and not get fixated on any one pair, level or, for me on M5, most importantly, direction, as there are always new opportunities appearing all the time.
Please correct me if I have misunderstood you.
All the best
Rob
Very Good heads up from Rob I believe. Agree with you 100% there.
Whatever I made today will be saved for the rainy day. 147.00 should be the area to watch out IMO in GJ. And I will restrict myself to trading tommorrow i.e Friday.
Thanks
Bloodhound
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Andy's last post got me thinking to another piece I read which had a major impact on my trading and which ultimately lead me to trading the way I trade now. (and who says there is never anything useful to read on T2W??!!)
I hope the OP (Frugi) won't mind me posting an extract from it here but reading this was a major moment for me...
"I wasted about four years trying to decipher the intent behind every move and disappeared down a number of fruitless though mildly interesting bunny tunnels. It's a natural thing to do, as the basic mechanics of trading ultimately become tedious and unfulfilling, at the very least in an intellectual sense, so of course one tries to go deeper and deeper to squeeze more meaning from the motion, indeed the profession as a whole. Or hole.
Now I'm down to one free web-based chart and have let it all go, it's such a relief. Four monitors, 85 charts with various pointless divisions of time, range and volume, bid/ask order book overlaid with pit noise, Tick, Vix, put/call open interest, A/D and Trin. WTF? Muddies the waters innit. Anything to avoid seeing the simplicity that was always there. I suppose it's kinda hard to accept that an innocent child with the proverbial crayon would probably do the job better, especially for the inquisitive male ego "But... but ... you mean that's all I have to do? Can't be right. So let's misovercomplexify it" as Bush might say.
Notwithstanding I think basics still need to be grasped: the formations and background levels of commitment and emotion that manifest as, for instance, an even-handed fierce fight; a non-commital can't be bothered to fight; woah that hurt and I grimly held on but now it really hurts capitulation; directional grind, whippy uncertainty etc. ... vague levels of view (or lack of it) and positioning à la mr marcus. but beyond that I no longer care why anything is happening outside of the nebulous bigger picture. Perhaps it gets more exciting when you can see the less obvious coming, but you don't need to. Pursue another (parallel) career if you want creative rewards, enlightening explanations or a sense of having produced something whether physically or in the mysterious carapace at the top of our bodies."
I hope the OP (Frugi) won't mind me posting an extract from it here but reading this was a major moment for me...
"I wasted about four years trying to decipher the intent behind every move and disappeared down a number of fruitless though mildly interesting bunny tunnels. It's a natural thing to do, as the basic mechanics of trading ultimately become tedious and unfulfilling, at the very least in an intellectual sense, so of course one tries to go deeper and deeper to squeeze more meaning from the motion, indeed the profession as a whole. Or hole.
Now I'm down to one free web-based chart and have let it all go, it's such a relief. Four monitors, 85 charts with various pointless divisions of time, range and volume, bid/ask order book overlaid with pit noise, Tick, Vix, put/call open interest, A/D and Trin. WTF? Muddies the waters innit. Anything to avoid seeing the simplicity that was always there. I suppose it's kinda hard to accept that an innocent child with the proverbial crayon would probably do the job better, especially for the inquisitive male ego "But... but ... you mean that's all I have to do? Can't be right. So let's misovercomplexify it" as Bush might say.
Notwithstanding I think basics still need to be grasped: the formations and background levels of commitment and emotion that manifest as, for instance, an even-handed fierce fight; a non-commital can't be bothered to fight; woah that hurt and I grimly held on but now it really hurts capitulation; directional grind, whippy uncertainty etc. ... vague levels of view (or lack of it) and positioning à la mr marcus. but beyond that I no longer care why anything is happening outside of the nebulous bigger picture. Perhaps it gets more exciting when you can see the less obvious coming, but you don't need to. Pursue another (parallel) career if you want creative rewards, enlightening explanations or a sense of having produced something whether physically or in the mysterious carapace at the top of our bodies."
Owain I did the same mistake. We are all still learning thats so true. Problem is within me not the system.
Good luck with rest of your day.
Paul
HawkTrader
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Thanks Paul, but if I could just learn a little more about myself I wouldn't need your luck!
Well done on your trading, save your profits imo, and you're an inspiration to me... you too Rob!
Well done on your trading, save your profits imo, and you're an inspiration to me... you too Rob!
Bloodhound
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Really interesting and thanks for posting about this guys - it's very true and I'm sure everyone gets caught between the headlights. What I find is there are some days when I know I should just stand aside. Not because cable is behaving badly but because I don't feel right. Slightly off topic but I was chatting to a very experienced trader about this, and also I how very often mess up my first trade of the day, and he suggested a few minutes of visualisation before starting trading every day.
Just a thought, but it does seem to be helping me.
P.S. Forgot to say what I visualise. Put simply I visualise my worst nightmare. 1-2-3 triggered and then cable comes straight back at me and I'm offside by 15 pips. What do I do? What should I do? What do my rules say? I want to hang on in as I can't accept the loss, even though my rules say kill the trade. Now I'm in a cold sweat (LOL), I'm panicking - BANG - my hard stop gets hit and I'm dead. May seem funny, but I mean this seriously. I'll take a walk round the garden with a cup of coffee and go through these 'worse case scenarios' to try and get myself thinking what I should do if they crop up. BTW - there are quite a few of them!!
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HawkTrader
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Visualisation of what? Yourself being profitable? I've heard about that before, it's a bit like NLP isn't it? I'm sure it can help and as I've discussed with you before Rob, when I try to meditate the night before a trading session I will always make great trades. I try to keep to a ritual though, wake up, cold shower (not doing that now, too cold! Should be though), dress smartly, eat a nice breakfast, brush teeth and then sit up straigt at my desk... treat it like a business, imagine you're being watched and have to make an impression. Getting up with my hair all over the place, bath robe on, grabbing an old pizza from the night before and then curling up on the chair certainly doesn't help!!
Bloodhound
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I've edited my last post - it should answer your question.
HawkTrader
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Interesting... do you also have one for if things go right?
Bloodhound
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No - or the simple reason that I 'expect' things to go right. That's why I cut trades very quick if they aren't going as I expect them to.
That's not to say that I don't have detailed plans for what to do when they go wrong. I am extremely risk averse in my trading....
HawkTrader
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Yeah, that's why my greatest fear is when things go right and I let them turn around and become wrong. I HATE HATE HATE that... I think something interesting to point out is that from what I gather, if you're wrong with a trade and get out quickly that for you is a positive? Rightly so too, but if things go wrong and you let them carry on then you're upset. You can be rightly wrong!
Bloodhound
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Put simply - I do not like losing. That said, I accept that I must lose as that is part of trading.
To put some context around what we've just been chatting about I think I should explain how I deal with my money management, as it may make more sense. (again this is gleaned from Feb and there is nothing new in this at all)
Every day I wake up and go to work. A few years ago this might have been at an exchange but today it's in front of my screens at home. Anyway, when I leave to go to work I take some cash with me - for sake of argument 100 pounds (a %age of my overall trading capital) - which I am prepared to lose (a bit like going to the casino for the evening lol). Anyway my job is to try and turn this into more than I started with.
What I then do is start hitting levels until one breaks and I get a runner, and make some cash. Until that moment I keep trading levels through the day until I run out of money. Some days I'll end up with more money than I staretd with and others I won't BUT what keeps me in the game is the acceptance that when cable wants to pay out she simply pays out - most of the time stops become irrelevant becuase she just flies off in my direction. In other words, if I'm trading a level and it breaks but then price comes back at me, that's an early warning signal that maybe the impetus isn't there for a more sustained move - in other words, the chances of this trade working they way I 'want' it to diminish rapidly. As I can't afford to lose too much of my day's cash messing around with these dicey looking moves, logic dictates that I should bail out and wait for the next level / set-up. It's all about staying in the game long enough each day to at least be there when she takes off.
Hope this makes sense. Feel free to ask if it doesn't.
To put some context around what we've just been chatting about I think I should explain how I deal with my money management, as it may make more sense. (again this is gleaned from Feb and there is nothing new in this at all)
Every day I wake up and go to work. A few years ago this might have been at an exchange but today it's in front of my screens at home. Anyway, when I leave to go to work I take some cash with me - for sake of argument 100 pounds (a %age of my overall trading capital) - which I am prepared to lose (a bit like going to the casino for the evening lol). Anyway my job is to try and turn this into more than I started with.
What I then do is start hitting levels until one breaks and I get a runner, and make some cash. Until that moment I keep trading levels through the day until I run out of money. Some days I'll end up with more money than I staretd with and others I won't BUT what keeps me in the game is the acceptance that when cable wants to pay out she simply pays out - most of the time stops become irrelevant becuase she just flies off in my direction. In other words, if I'm trading a level and it breaks but then price comes back at me, that's an early warning signal that maybe the impetus isn't there for a more sustained move - in other words, the chances of this trade working they way I 'want' it to diminish rapidly. As I can't afford to lose too much of my day's cash messing around with these dicey looking moves, logic dictates that I should bail out and wait for the next level / set-up. It's all about staying in the game long enough each day to at least be there when she takes off.
Hope this makes sense. Feel free to ask if it doesn't.
