Trading and meditation

[rols]

Anyway, let's just agree to disagree.


Ivor

Even better. Let's meditate on it. :cheesy:

 

[CJIA]

Hi Baptist,

.

I think a Meditation Machine provides you with an easier route to getting into meditation. I can't see that it is any different to meditating without one, except you don't have to spend twenty years practicing.

Also, I know someone who now uses a Meditation Machine after meditating for about 30 years without one. He says that with a Meditation Machine, he can meditate more deeply and more quickly than he could before.

HTH

Regards,

Ivor

I was wandering if the Meditation you mention is one pointed concentration.I have been meditating for a few years and to achieve this one pointed focus is no easy matter.
I think they term it as Mindfulness .
Can this machine bring you to this point or does it just make you relax ?
I would be interested to know? because if it only relaxes you ,then this would not be termed as meditating only sinking meditating.
Many thanks in advance.
CJIA

 

[Charlton]

Yes. But that's just it. Tests under controlled conditions have been carried out. And the results show that the brainwave patterns achieved by people using light and sound stimulation are identical to those achieved by Zen monks when they meditate.

I'm not saying that a Meditation Machine will turn me into the Dali Lama any more than I said that my new trainers will turn me into Seb Cole. But if something can help me along the way, then I think that has to be a good thing.

Anyway, we clearly have a difference of opinion here and I respect your views. My thinking is that if you can meditate without a Meditation Machine, then that's geat. On the other hand, for people who are struggling with meditation or for those who would like to meditate and want to start meditating easily and quickly, Meditation Machines are well worth a try in my opinion.

Regards,

Ivor

Ivor

This assumes that the only purpose and result of meditation is a changed set of brainwave patterns - a physical effect that can be measured totally by machines.

I don't doubt that the machine may help you and may be worth a try, but meditation is a tool used along the journey to enlightenment and, as such, goes way beyond the physical into the metaphysical.

Charlton

 

[ivorm]

I was wandering if the Meditation you mention is one pointed concentration.I have been meditating for a few years and to achieve this one pointed focus is no easy matter.
I think they term it as Mindfulness .
Can this machine bring you to this point or does it just make you relax ?
I would be interested to know? because if it only relaxes you ,then this would not be termed as meditating only sinking meditating.
Many thanks in advance.
CJIA

Hi CJIA,

This is a difficult one to answer. I think the Meditation Machine has made me more than just relax. I believe that I am meditating when I use it, but the question is what exactly is meant by meditation. And, of course, everyone will have a slightly different definition.

I have done an enormous amount of reading on meditation and related subjects. One thing that most people seem to agree on is that everyone's experience of meditation will be different.

I can say that I have noticed improvements both mentally and physically since I have been using a Meditation Machine. These improvements seem to be in line with the ones often attributed to meditation. As far as I'm concerned, using a Meditation Machine has been good for me.

As you know, there are many different forms of meditation. I think a Meditation Machine will get you into a meditative state and then allow you to implement whatever technique you wish to apply.

For example, I like to use visualisation when I meditate. I find that I can do this far more easily and vividly when I use a Meditation Machine than I can without one. I also like to repeat positive affirmations whilst meditating ( a bit like using mantras ). Again, I feel I can concentrate and focus on the affirmations more easily with a Meditation Machine.

I suppose the only way to find out is to try one and see if it's good for you. They do a 30 day money-back guarantee.

HTH

Regards,

Ivor

 

[Pat494]

My Rant

I think we all need to unwind especially with today's pressures - work ,TV, online gambling, computer games, friends etc.. Advertising I find is an irritant and a distraction ( those voluptuous girls aaaah ).
There are imho many ways to find moments of peace and meditation. I am lucky to live in a quiet Cornish fishing village. To walk along the coastal path in the sun or to sit on a rock by the sea listening to the music of wind and waves is worth more than mere money.
Everything these days is geared up to the consumer society. Politicians, advertisers business leaders etc shout their messages to consume is good. The more we consume the more pollution and cr*p. The greatest nation the Earth has ever known is on an unstoppable path of more and more consumption, which produces more and more pollution and cr*p. All countries are invited to join this consumer ethic. The two giants of the Far East are now enthusiastic supporters of excessive consumption. Producing mountains of waste and much more cr*p as the air gets fouler and temperatures rise and rise. Having consumed everything in their reach the monsters of consumerism will no doudt consume each other, having turned the world into one vast garbage tip.
Maybe little Bhutan has something to teach the world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Are you listening George Dubya ? I expect not )

 

[ivorm]

Meditation and brain states

Ivor

This assumes that the only purpose and result of meditation is a changed set of brainwave patterns - a physical effect that can be measured totally by machines.

Charlton

I agree with you on this, Charlton. Just because a person using a Meditation Machine has the same brainwave patterns as an experienced meditator( such as a Zen monk ), that doesn't necessarily mean that the person is meditating.

However, this applies, of course, to all mental phenomena and much of current neuroscience is based on these sort of assumptions.

Brain scanners and mappers have shown that pretty much all mental phenomena have corresponding brain activities. For example, when someone is solving a mathematical problem, certain parts of the brain will 'light up'. Similarly, when asked to deal with a problem involving language comprehension, different parts of the brain will 'light up'.

It's not unreasonable from this research to assume that a person is dealing with a mathematical problem when a brain scan shows that the parts of the brain normally involved with mathematics are active. Of course, this can't be guaranteed, but current research seems to support this line of thinking.

In the same way, then, we can't be certain that a person is meditating because a brain scan shows that they have the same brain state as that of ,say, a Zen monk in deep meditation. However, current neuroscience would say that it is a reasonable assumption that the person IS, in fact, meditating.

Wow. I hope that made some sense.

Regards,

Ivor

 

[ivorm]

Ivor.....I may not be able to give any advice that may be useful, just my limited experience. there are some people who believe they can manifest their wants through meditation ....guess I am at the stage of wanting to believe this but openly admit not full faith.....tho I have had experiences thro this.

Jay

I find this a fascinating subject. And I have to say that it's one of the reasons that I've become so interested in meditation.

There are two books that I've read recently that have changed my way of thinking on the concepts of "manifesting your desires" and the "Law of Attraction".

In case anyone's interested they are ;

The Power of Intention - Dr. Wayne Dyer
Ask and It is Given - Esther and Jery Hicks

Of course, the ideas that your thoughts are responsible for creating your future and that you can manifest your desires have enormous impact on your success, or otherwise, at trading.

Anyway, I guess everyone has to make their own mind up about these concepts. But if anyone is open-minded enough to consider that there might be more to our reality than we generally think, then I recommend those two books, together with learning to meditate.

Regards,

Ivor

 

[Charlton]

Thoughts, energy, waves, events

I find this a fascinating subject. And I have to say that it's one of the reasons that I've become so interested in meditation.

There are two books that I've read recently that have changed my way of thinking on the concepts of "manifesting your desires" and the "Law of Attraction".

In case anyone's interested they are ;

The Power of Intention - Dr. Wayne Dyer
Ask and It is Given - Esther and Jery Hicks

Of course, the ideas that your thoughts are responsible for creating your future and that you can manifest your desires have enormous impact on your success, or otherwise, at trading.

Anyway, I guess everyone has to make their own mind up about these concepts. But if anyone is open-minded enough to consider that there might be more to our reality than we generally think, then I recommend those two books, together with learning to meditate.

Regards,

Ivor

Ivor

Now look what you've done - you've started me off on one of my metaphysical tracks !!

I have read works by those authors, although I cannot recall whether it was those particular titles. I have also read many other books on this area and this informs my thread on releasing energy in trading, to which I will be making further observations in due course.

The opening lines of the Bible go something like "In the beginning was the Word and the word was made flesh".

Every creation starts with a thought (the Word). If you want to achieve anything in life you begin with the thought that this is the thing that I wish to bring into reality (made flesh).

There is a kind of "energy" flowing in the universe - background universal energy or life force. It manifests itself physically as matter and as the various forms of energy that we are used to dealing with such as heat, light, electricity.

It connects all of use together and we are all part of it. Although we perceive each person as separate, at the atomic level atoms are bouncing around between our physical bodies and the surrounding environment. In turn the atoms of each so-called object in the environment are constantly interchanging with those of other so-called objects. There is no real beginning and end of each object.

At sub-atomic levels the situation becomes even more uncertain. Subatomic particles are like particles and also like waves at the same time. Their exact position and velocity cannot be measured simultaneously (Heisenberg Uncertaintly principle) and they exhibit probability characteristics.

There is a search for a unified theory of the universe (Hawking) and we see fractals everywhere. So patterns, relationships, waves and energy bind us, everything and events. Certain numerical formations are significant in this and also extend to trading in terms of Elliot Waves, Fibonnaci numbers and the like.

Thoughts are part of this.

Charlton

 

[swededemon]

Is there anything physical or is everything just energy?

 

[rols]

Ivor

Now look what you've done - you've started me off on one of my metaphysical tracks !!

I have read works by those authors, although I cannot recall whether it was those particular titles. I have also read many other books on this area and this informs my thread on releasing energy in trading, to which I will be making further observations in due course.

The opening lines of the Bible go something like "In the beginning was the Word and the word was made flesh".

Every creation starts with a thought (the Word). If you want to achieve anything in life you begin with the thought that this is the thing that I wish to bring into reality (made flesh).

There is a kind of "energy" flowing in the universe - background universal energy or life force. It manifests itself physically as matter and as the various forms of energy that we are used to dealing with such as heat, light, electricity.

It connects all of use together and we are all part of it. Although we perceive each person as separate, at the atomic level atoms are bouncing around between our physical bodies and the surrounding environment. In turn the atoms of each so-called object in the environment are constantly interchanging with those of other so-called objects. There is no real beginning and end of each object.

At sub-atomic levels the situation becomes even more uncertain. Subatomic particles are like particles and also like waves at the same time. Their exact position and velocity cannot be measured simultaneously (Heisenberg Uncertaintly principle) and they exhibit probability characteristics.

There is a search for a unified theory of the universe (Hawking) and we see fractals everywhere. So patterns, relationships, waves and energy bind us, everything and events. Certain numerical formations are significant in this and also extend to trading in terms of Elliot Waves, Fibonnaci numbers and the like.

Thoughts are part of this.

Charlton

Yes. Good post!
That's why most of us get what we wish for.
Einstein said "genius is the ability to recognise the obvious.'
To those that know then it is obvious because the key is the Universe within ourselves.
Everything that we perceive comes from within.
Simple really.
Meditation could be one of the many first steps of a thousand mile journey that most of us won't complete in this lifetime.
What's all this mumbo jumbo got to do with trading? A lot IMHO.
Trading provides us with a mirror into which perhaps we can start to really see ourselves for what we truly are...
(if we want to that is)

 

[trendie]

.....
Every creation starts with a thought (the Word). If you want to achieve anything in life you begin with the thought that this is the thing that I wish to bring into reality (made flesh).
....

Charlton

This reminds me of Alexandra David-Neel and the Tulpa!!
( I wonder if I can manifest Nicole Kidman if I try hard enough.)

You wouldnt be a member of the Society for Psychical Research, by any chance ?

 

[swededemon]

When the universe created life, it created it's own conscience. At the moment humans are as good as it get's for the universe...as far as we know.

 

[Charlton]

Explorations and manifestations

This reminds me of Alexandra David-Neel and the Tulpa!!
( I wonder if I can manifest Nicole Kidman if I try hard enough.)

Only if it's very hard

I must thank you for the mention of Alexandra David-Neel. I did not really know anything about her. She seems a remarkable women, so I must read more about her, possibly in the French version.

You wouldnt be a member of the Society for Psychical Research, by any chance ?

Not at all.

I just try to see things they way they are - the basics, no noise.

Charlton

 

[Charlton]

A thousand questions

Yes. Good post!
That's why most of us get what we wish for.
Einstein said "genius is the ability to recognise the obvious.'
To those that know then it is obvious because the key is the Universe within ourselves.
Everything that we perceive comes from within.
Simple really.
Meditation could be one of the many first steps of a thousand mile journey that most of us won't complete in this lifetime.
What's all this mumbo jumbo got to do with trading? A lot IMHO.
Trading provides us with a mirror into which perhaps we can start to really see ourselves for what we truly are...
(if we want to that is)

Rols

Thanks - as you said to me we have the same hymn sheet. Your last point is interesting - normally on this site we talk about how we can change how psychology to suit trading. Your statement turns this on its head: how and why does trading change our pschology and affect other parts of our lives and personality ? Is the "wanting" already there ? Are certain people prone to the "wanting" ? Can it be triggered and, if so, by what ?

Charlton

 

[swededemon]

Wanting is about solutions.

 

[fxmarkets]

Everything that we perceive comes from within.
Simple really.

hmm, The kingdom of heaven lies within ?

Its been written that through trading an expansion of self awareness is a (potential) by-product.

The connection or awareness that our very being is energy (insert thermodynamics first law) and its implications ,can upon first glance , to put it as it may be said, may seem a bit odd.Yet what does this mean for our very being or our present perception of our own identity.? What should or can we use from this new learned insight into our own being ,to enhance not only our immediate and future experience but how we may reflect upon our past...?

Also then , how do we greet/see others, do we become more tolerant ? more open,honest with ourselves and others.? what about acceptance? can we accept things any easier ? situations, others,ourselves, a loss, a profit. ?

what does it all mean?..... partly now yes ,selfish reasons, but also what's next?

 

[swededemon]

Meditation and self harmony vs The wrath of capitalism. It's all very human.

 

[fxmarkets]

hmmm see your point swededemon, but perhaps it neednt be looked at as an internal war against capitlaism, rather an awareness of the possibility to be able to distribute according to recognised needs that we might see.

stewardship or something maybe. dont know. humanistic values and such.

 

[fxmarkets]

Wanting is about solutions.

I would of thought wanting is about feelings. feeling the lack of or creating a need for something.

what is it we feel we need ? or feel the lack of maybe. how have we become to feel this lack ? all worth thinking about ..

 

[TheBramble]

Wanting is about solutions.

Wanting is about wanting. When the want is met, new wanting is manufactured so that 'want' may continue.

Solutions do not 'cure' want.

The satisfactions of the realisation of want rarely match the pleasure of the wanting.

How about the last time you delayed gratification of any particular desire. To the degree to which you directly or indirectly, purposefully or accidentally delayed gratification increase or decrease the pleasure?

What do you think might happen if you denied that want indefinitely? Ultimate pleasure....

I'm only responding to you on the basis that you are be half-Welsh. If you are, this post is for everyone else's benefit - not yours.