Meditation :mastering the monkey brain

[vimal1]

I have a question for those that actually practice meditation in developing the trading mind. What outcomes are you targeting as a consequence of the effort? It is a very specific question and so I appreciate that if you can't provide a specific answer do not reply because I do not wish to end up with some abstract transcendental conversation.

Its a fair question. Simple straight answer for you. One of the benefits of Meditation is to be able to be in the moment. Here and now. To not procastinate about the past or think too much about the future. Be in the current moment only.
Traders have a habit of procastinating about prior experiences good and bad. Also about thinking too much about the future.
Meditation means that all you think about and should think about is trading the trade in front of you right now based on its merits. Forget about any past experiences with that instrument or others. Just focus on the set up right now and whether it makes sense.
Hope this helps

 

[Brumby]

One of the benefits of Meditation is to be able to be in the moment. Here and now. To not procastinate about the past or think too much about the future. Be in the current moment only.
Traders have a habit of procastinating about prior experiences good and bad. Also about thinking too much about the future.
Meditation means that all you think about and should think about is trading the trade in front of you right now based on its merits. Forget about any past experiences with that instrument or others. Just focus on the set up right now and whether it makes sense.

I understand the point about developing a trader mindset to "trade in the moment". The piece I would ask that you elaborate is what specific technique do you use during meditation to develop such a mindset.

For example, I do use meditation and in developing mindfulness I apply cognitive awareness in thought profiling. Being aware of the thoughts that generate emotions I then apply defusion techniques for emotional distancing.

 

[Pat494]

I think that there is a place for the right sort of music to fit in with meditation.

 

[Charlton]

I might have lied and be actually based in SW London.

Well traders and French Polynesia are a good cocktail:
https://www.socialandcocktail.co.uk/bars/trader-vics/

 

[vimal1]

I understand the point about developing a trader mindset to "trade in the moment". The piece I would ask that you elaborate is what specific technique do you use during meditation to develop such a mindset.

For example, I do use meditation and in developing mindfulness I apply cognitive awareness in thought profiling. Being aware of the thoughts that generate emotions I then apply defusion techniques for emotional distancing.

Sure. The technique to try and get the mind into the current state and not "drift" is to close ones eyes, think about what you are feeling in your body here and now and do deep breathing. Whenever the mind wonders from thinking about your current body state, bring it back in check. Do this for 5minutes or so
Then open eyes, focus on an object in the room and analyse the object with your eyes. Its shape, colour, size, position etc. Again, whenever the mind drifts away, bring it back to focusing on the object

All of the above has the intention as silly as it sounds, to bring the mind to the current and not focus on anything in the past or future.

I think these practices do have a place in a traders routine but I also appreciate others are not so keen on this. For me, it really does calm me down and relax mentally much more

 

[shadowninja]

The benefits for traders:
-killing negative thoughts
-focusing on the present moment
-noticing you're having thoughts
-controlling the mind
-chilling out

One of the problems with just being aware of the discipline side of trading is that it's easy enough to read the advice but hard to implement when you've just wiped out your last week's profit. Nothing is stopping you from staying at your desk and diving right in even if the market conditions are not right for the way you trade.

Self-discipline and willpower are developed by meditating, just repeatedly bringing yourself back to the present moment. Sure, you can do all that self-analysis stuff if you want but it's not necessary and possibly dangerous if you have any deep-seated issues.

 

[Pat494]

Turn out the lights and be in the jungle

 

[Charlton]

This is the way you should do it

 

[Brumby]

Self-discipline and willpower are developed by meditating, just repeatedly bringing yourself back to the present moment.

You emphasized the focus to be in the moment which logically means the opposite state is to be out of the moment. I have often seen the reference to be in the former state you alluded to but what does it mean to be in the moment instead out of it and more importantly why does it matter to our trading?

Sure, you can do all that self-analysis stuff if you want but it's not necessary and possibly dangerous if you have any deep-seated issues.

Your statement almost seems contradictory. If one has deep-seated issues and instead of confronting it but instead seeking avoidance would be rather delusional. Isn't it?

 

[shadowninja]

You emphasized the focus to be in the moment which logically means the opposite state is to be out of the moment. I have often seen the reference to be in the former state you alluded to but what does it mean to be in the moment instead out of it and more importantly why does it matter to our trading?



Your statement almost seems contradictory. If one has deep-seated issues and instead of confronting it but instead seeking avoidance would be rather delusional. Isn't it?

Thanks for the questions.

1) When you're not in the moment, your mind is likely to be thinking of the losses you made or the fact that you're way under today's target or you're over today's target; any of these thoughts can cause you to take risks. So by being in the moment you only focus on making the right decision for the market conditions. Thoughts can beget emotions which beget trading decisions you regret later.

2) I'm suggesting that you don't try to "confront" it on your own. If you have any deep seated issues, then go to a therapist.

 

[fibo_trader]

Every day, before I start trading , I always meditate 1 hour a day , I have been practicing meditation within a buddhist and yogic tradition. Working with a meditation teacher the entire time, as of this writing, I have logged well over 6,000 hours of meditation practice.

Meditation will help traders follow their systems.To trade succesfully without mistakes , a trader needs to be in a transcendent state in which there is neither suffering, desire, nor sense of self.There are plenty of youtube videos for meditation.

The benefits of meditation are well documented, yet most traders come up with endless excuses why they can’t find the time to meditate daily it. Meditation increases your ability to focus and slows down your mind. Learning to observe everything on your charts in slow motion is an art you should develop. It will give you an immense trading edge.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2007/October/Pages/Meditationreducesstressandimprovesmood.aspx

Paying more attention to the present moment – to your own thoughts and feelings, and to the world around you – can improve your mental wellbeing.It's easy to stop noticing the world around us. It's also easy to lose touch with the way our bodies are feeling and to end up living 'in our heads' – caught up in our thoughts without stopping to notice how those thoughts are driving our emotions and behaviour.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/educational-resources/161540-trading-journey-self-discovery-4.html


Traders make mistakes and plenty of them.Traders also lose their discipline for many reasons.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/educational-resources/223432-mistakes-make-losing-traders.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psy...t/223388-rewire-brain-trading-perfection.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psy...ment/223300-mind-traps-affecting-traders.html

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/educational-resources/142316-why-traders-lose-their-discipline.html


https://www.youtube.chttp://www.tra...-ruin-your-trading.htmlom/watch?v=wirV265ZYSw


Traders are like monkeys , they suffer from the MONKEY BIAS, THEY DO MONKEY BUSINESS ON LIVE ACCOUNTS

Humans are very clever and we get clever , when it is not in our interests .When given a highly profitable system , we second guess systems , because we are smart and smarter than the creator of the system.We are like monkeys and do monkey business on live accounts .It is called self sabotage.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psy...452-best-psychology-videos-2.html#post2901374

Excellent thread such as this one does not belong in the United Kingdom or most of the west with the exception of the western united states and New York City. Would thrive in Asia, ALL of Asia.

Here it is Casting pearls amongst .............................

 

[scarlet jones]

I agree. I follow the practice of meditation on a regular bias. It helps me to stay away from the negativity and keeps me calm when i trade. I am able to think better with a fresh mind and make sound trading decisions.
I would suggest everyone struggling to keep themselves patient to try this technique for at least 15 minutes everyday and you will see the difference yourself.

 

[Pat494]

Some are of the opinion that one should be without emorion/feelings as to one's trading results.
Personally I like to keep myself and trading in the comfort zone. Over do the trade size or iterations of trades and everything screams at me to slow down, pause take stock etc. One's gut feelings can be so useful if one listens to them. Perhaps this is another form of meditation ?

 

[Peter5510]

Money brain aka primitive brain is physical part of our subconscious mind. The subconscious mind is unable to differentiate between real or imaginary. First, be honest to oneself and stop the thrash thought so that our subconscious is cleanse. I suppose this what Ray Dalio meant by hyper realism.

 

[cantagril]

Some are of the opinion that one should be without emorion/feelings as to one's trading results.
Personally I like to keep myself and trading in the comfort zone. Over do the trade size or iterations of trades and everything screams at me to slow down, pause take stock etc. One's gut feelings can be so useful if one listens to them. Perhaps this is another form of meditation ?

IMHO "meditation" merely means to think/consider deeply. "Transcendental Meditation" otoh was a term coined some time in the 60s (I think) to describe a Hindu or Mantra based style that became extremely popular. As time went on there has been a shift away from TM as a core technique into more accessible or cut-down practices such as Mindfulness. Behind these there has been a less spiritually flavoured trance approach with hypnosis - this has also got somewhat hi-jacked with the popularity of stage hypnotism etc etc. Any version of a practice that alters one state of consciousness could be called "meditation" provided that it engages one's attention and induces trance - that would equally go for jumping about to a background of Techno music whilst off your face on chemicals, to missing out a few junctions on the motorway.

Part of my own daily routine involves a morning walk which I use as an opportunity to prepare myself for my first coffee and an enjoyable day of incompetent trading. I use a standard induction based on counting and awareness of stages of trance which works well with walking at moderately brisk pace for about 40 mins. Too fast and I find that the walking itself is distracting; too slow and I get distracted by everything else

 

[NVP]

i meditate and look at such softer things a lot more now than i used to .....my advice to traders is anything that could give you an edge is worth trying .....so give it a try

you can blend mediation into visualization techniques as well (regarding your trading processes) .....that is powerful

N

 

[Attila the trader]

an hour thats a challenge isnt 15 min sufficient ?