Should the Scotland vote worry anyone ?

counter_violent said:
Anyone else watch it? Complete pile of tosh. If that's the choice of party and standard of politician available to the Scottish electorate then it's to be hoped the Scots vote No to independence for they will surely fail as a country if they do vote Yes.
Click to expand...

Agree see no need for Scotland to brake away and we are all stronger and better together working together.

However, I did think Alex Salmond was the better performer and squashed the fear mongering about currency with his three B-plans and re-assurances.

I do not see why the UK would prevent Scotland from using the pound anyhow. Even if they did no great setback.


One of my points is that - Nordic countries are well managed because of their excellent social policies and better models of income distribution and taxation imo. In the UK wealth has a skewed distribution. I see Scotland being the same as the other small Nordic countries.

Europe didn't come into the play much. BAU there I think.

Alistair could and should have made more out of the NHS and pensions imo. With declining birth rates, aging popullations both will cost considerably more and Scotland not doing well in either area with 5m people.

Also, shipyards, work, taxation, company rules/laws/regulations will entail great deal of work and loss for little gain. I think companies will move down South.


I think we are better together. Lots of cost and fuss on organisational apparatus which doesn't bring us much. Either way other than beruaucracy not much will change. Wouldn't be surprised if many Scots come down to England - dissatisfied with their lot up North.

Looks like it's going to get even grimmer :whistling
 
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Atilla said:
Agree see no need for Scotland to brake away and we are all stronger and better together working together.

However, I did think Alex Salmond was the better performer and squashed the fear mongering about currency with his three B-plans and re-assurances.

I do not see why the UK would prevent Scotland from using the pound anyhow. Even if they did no great setback.


One of my points is that - Nordic countries are well managed because of their excellent social policies and better models of income distribution and taxation imo. In the UK wealth has a skewed distribution. I see Scotland being the same as the other small Nordic countries.

Europe didn't come into the play much. BAU there I think.

Alistair could and should have made more out of the NHS and pensions imo. With declining birth rates, aging popullations both will cost considerably more and Scotland not doing well in either area with 5m people.

Also, shipyards, work, taxation, company rules/laws/regulations will entail great deal of work and loss for little gain. I think companies will move down South.


I think we are better together. Lots of cost and fuss on organisational apparatus which doesn't bring us much. Either way other than beruaucracy not much will change. Wouldn't be surprised if many Scots come down to England - dissatisfied with their lot up North.

Looks like it's going to get even grimmer :whistling
Click to expand...

Poor Mr Darling got a bit of a hammering last night. He was stuttering and stamering like a small child once Salmond had him on the ropes. He was poorly prepared for that appearance imo. The currency question was a farce, clearly if Scotland continued to use the pound they would lack the power of any central bank and the control that comes with it. Salmond would have been much better off saying the plan would be to keep the pound in a transitional arrangement for 5 years at which point the Scottish pound would take over with further transitional stability measures such as pegging.
 
What an opportunity for scotland. To be free to create and destroy their own money.
What is not to like. :)

Cheers
Duncan,,, I mean darktone. :D
 
SpreadDoctor said:
Poor Mr Darling got a bit of a hammering last night. He was stuttering and stamering like a small child once Salmond had him on the ropes. He was poorly prepared for that appearance imo. The currency question was a farce, clearly if Scotland continued to use the pound they would lack the power of any central bank and the control that comes with it. Salmond would have been much better off saying the plan would be to keep the pound in a transitional arrangement for 5 years at which point the Scottish pound would take over with further transitional stability measures such as pegging.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, there must be 101 ways of doing it. So much fuss. However, is that likely to be the best outcome for both the Scots and the English.
 
I really don't care ................just british taxpayers paying the salaries of politicians not adding any value at all to the british economy

N
 
I will be for the yes vote, its time for change and the way things have been going then how the hell can it get any worse. Hospitals on skeleton staff, police on skeleton staff, firemen on skeleton staff, no jobs and ones who are lucky enough to have a job are on crap wadges, no prospects for young ones, people leaving Scotland and there families to get better pay. I don't listen to all the crap on t.v, i don't need to my eyes are open to whats been happening all around me. Why should I have to travel to England for a job that pays? Its time we made our own decisions because if we have more of the same nothing will ever get better! Is it a risk or gamble? probably. What happened to Scotland the brave.
 
shugster said:
I will be for the yes vote, its time for change and the way things have been going then how the hell can it get any worse. Hospitals on skeleton staff, police on skeleton staff, firemen on skeleton staff, no jobs and ones who are lucky enough to have a job are on crap wadges, no prospects for young ones, people leaving Scotland and there families to get better pay. I don't listen to all the crap on t.v, i don't need to my eyes are open to whats been happening all around me. Why should I have to travel to England for a job that pays? Its time we made our own decisions because if we have more of the same nothing will ever get better! Is it a risk or gamble? probably. What happened to Scotland the brave.
Click to expand...

You are living there and I am not. That must give you a different perspective. Its a big choice and I wish everyone luck.
 
shugster said:
I will be for the yes vote, its time for change and the way things have been going then how the hell can it get any worse. Hospitals on skeleton staff, police on skeleton staff, firemen on skeleton staff, no jobs and ones who are lucky enough to have a job are on crap wadges, no prospects for young ones, people leaving Scotland and there families to get better pay. I don't listen to all the crap on t.v, i don't need to my eyes are open to whats been happening all around me. Why should I have to travel to England for a job that pays? Its time we made our own decisions because if we have more of the same nothing will ever get better! Is it a risk or gamble? probably. What happened to Scotland the brave.
Click to expand...

Your question must surely tell you something if you attempt to answer it?

Why do Mexican and migrant workers from all over the world risk their lives travelling 000s of miles to get a job?

Why does the EU have free movement of labour rule?

Why did Berlin have such low living standards before the unification of Germany?

This is a fact of life. Markets gravitate to the centre. Get a compass and draw a 50m circle from the centre of Scotland. Identify what markets you see to sell goods and services. Repeat the same exercise in Germany, France and Italy and you get a different picture.

In summary regions at the periphery of any body always struggle in economic terms unless they are part of a much bigger mass or supported with external money ie policy initiatives as with the Special Enterprise / Development Regions as the UK has tried to shift the jobs balance in the UK but failed.

What I'm saying here has absolutely nothing to do with politics, nations or areas. Just simply a fact of science and human geography and economics.


Thinking the way you are and the reasons you have given brings it all down to a case of we've run out of ideas, let's try something a little different. Cut off your nose to spite your face. What you need to do is find out what Alex has planned for you working through the outcomes.

Not simply what he is telling you he thinks will happen but invest some grey matter in follow-through of his proposals objectively. Will they really change what you have now for the 'better'? or Will they just be another failed idea?


Personally speaking - as much as I like travelling in Scotland, I don't see it having much going for it other than oil. That is my limited simplistic view. Would I want to live and work there? No definitely not, over-cast with dark grey clouds, cold and wet and the music sounds worst than the call of a fox in mating season.


So your question imo be rephrased - not Why you should? but Why do people travel to England for a job that pays?
Answer the Why objectively without bias, nationalism or politics to get a better understanding of it all.

Either way best wishes for the outcome (y)
 
Your question must surely tell you something if you attempt to answer it?

Yes it tells me we in Scotland aren't getting a good deal.

Why do Mexican and migrant workers from all over the world risk their lives travelling 000s of miles to get a job?

Are you suggesting us Scots are as poor as the migrants?

Why does the EU have free movement of labour rule?
No Idea.


Why did Berlin have such low living standards before the unification of Germany?

I don't know, never studied Berlin, did they have oil or wind farms or the food and drink industries or tourism industry or farming or whisky, we are Europe's largest oil producer and second largest gas producer. We would be the among the top 30 exporters in the world with independence.

This is a fact of life. Markets gravitate to the centre. Get a compass and draw a 50m circle from the centre of Scotland. Identify what markets you see to sell goods and services. Repeat the same exercise in Germany, France and Italy and you get a different picture.
If you divide our nations national wealth by the population Scotland is wealthier than France, Italy and the U.K

In summary regions at the periphery of any body always struggle in economic terms unless they are part of a much bigger mass or supported with external money ie policy initiatives as with the Special Enterprise / Development Regions as the UK has tried to shift the jobs balance in the UK but failed.

What I'm saying here has absolutely nothing to do with politics, nations or areas. Just simply a fact of science and human geography and economics.


Thinking the way you are and the reasons you have given brings it all down to a case of we've run out of ideas, let's try something a little different. Cut off your nose to spite your face.

I look at it more like cutting our losses short and going for a new perspective with clear focus

What you need to do is find out what Alex has planned for you working through the outcomes.

Not simply what he is telling you he thinks will happen but invest some grey matter in follow-through of his proposals objectively.

I don't like Alex i'm no fan of his or the other side, as i said i think its time for change, if what your doing isn't working and it clearly isn't then do something else, anything else! simple as that.


Will they really change what you have now for the 'better'? or Will they just be another failed idea?

Its clearly failed now, all you have to do is look around


Personally speaking - as much as I like travelling in Scotland, I don't see it having much going for it other than oil. That is my limited simplistic view. Would I want to live and work there? No definitely not, over-cast with dark grey clouds, cold and wet and the music sounds worst than the call of a fox in mating season.
YES THATS LIMITED


So your question imo be rephrased - not Why you should? but Why do people travel to England for a job that pays?
Answer the Why objectively without bias, nationalism or politics to get a better understanding of it all.

I CAN'T SAY WHAT WILL HAPPEN OR WHAT MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT HAPPEN, I LIVE HERE AND I PERSONALLY THINK WE CAN EASILY TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN IN SCOTLAND, WHEN ALL THIS STARTED ALL I HEARD WAS BLACKMAIL IF YOU DO THIS THEN THIS WILL HAPPEN OR THAT WILL HAPPEN DOES THIS NOT SEND ALARM BELLS OFF?
Everyone has opinions and no one is clear enough to make informed decisions so this is just from my opinion as someone who has lived and born in Scotland for 46 years.
Could I be wrong? yes, could i be right? yes what will i vote? yes, we can only go by opinions and beliefs based on previous experience past, present and future, it's all subjective at the end of the day. Everyone has opinions or constructions and there all full of deletion distortion and generalisations my constructions are just pointing me in the yes direction that's all and i respect everyone's opinions whether they think yes or no.

Let me put it plain and simple:

If your on a sinking ship do you jump and take your chances with the life boat or do you stay on board?

If your on a big loss trading do you stop the loss out and wait to get back on a better position or do you stay on that losing position in the 'hope' the market will turn?
 
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shugster said:
Your question must surely tell you something if you attempt to answer it?

Yes it tells me we in Scotland aren't getting a good deal.

Why do Mexican and migrant workers from all over the world risk their lives travelling 000s of miles to get a job?

Are you suggesting us Scots are as poor as the migrants?

Why does the EU have free movement of labour rule?
No Idea.


Why did Berlin have such low living standards before the unification of Germany?

I don't know, never studied Berlin, did they have oil or wind farms or the food and drink industries or tourism industry or farming or whisky, we are Europe's largest oil producer and second largest gas producer. We would be the among the top 30 exporters in the world with independence.

This is a fact of life. Markets gravitate to the centre. Get a compass and draw a 50m circle from the centre of Scotland. Identify what markets you see to sell goods and services. Repeat the same exercise in Germany, France and Italy and you get a different picture.
If you divide our nations national wealth by the population Scotland is wealthier than France, Italy and the U.K

In summary regions at the periphery of any body always struggle in economic terms unless they are part of a much bigger mass or supported with external money ie policy initiatives as with the Special Enterprise / Development Regions as the UK has tried to shift the jobs balance in the UK but failed.

What I'm saying here has absolutely nothing to do with politics, nations or areas. Just simply a fact of science and human geography and economics.


Thinking the way you are and the reasons you have given brings it all down to a case of we've run out of ideas, let's try something a little different. Cut off your nose to spite your face.

I look at it more like cutting our losses short and going for a new perspective with clear focus

What you need to do is find out what Alex has planned for you working through the outcomes.

Not simply what he is telling you he thinks will happen but invest some grey matter in follow-through of his proposals objectively.

I don't like Alex i'm no fan of his or the other side, as i said i think its time for change, if what your doing isn't working and it clearly isn't then do something else, anything else! simple as that.


Will they really change what you have now for the 'better'? or Will they just be another failed idea?

Its clearly failed now, all you have to do is look around


Personally speaking - as much as I like travelling in Scotland, I don't see it having much going for it other than oil. That is my limited simplistic view. Would I want to live and work there? No definitely not, over-cast with dark grey clouds, cold and wet and the music sounds worst than the call of a fox in mating season.
YES THATS LIMITED


So your question imo be rephrased - not Why you should? but Why do people travel to England for a job that pays?
Answer the Why objectively without bias, nationalism or politics to get a better understanding of it all.

I CAN'T SAY WHAT WILL HAPPEN OR WHAT MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT HAPPEN, I LIVE HERE AND I PERSONALLY THINK WE CAN EASILY TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN IN SCOTLAND, WHEN ALL THIS STARTED ALL I HEARD WAS BLACKMAIL IF YOU DO THIS THEN THIS WILL HAPPEN OR THAT WILL HAPPEN DOES THIS NOT SEND ALARM BELLS OFF?
Everyone has opinions and no one is clear enough to make informed decisions so this is just from my opinion as someone who has lived and born in Scotland for 46 years.
Could I be wrong? yes, could i be right? yes what will i vote? yes, we can only go by opinions and beliefs based on previous experience past, present and future, it's all subjective at the end of the day. Everyone has opinions or constructions and there all full of deletion distortion and generalisations my constructions are just pointing me in the yes direction that's all and i respect everyone's opinions whether they think yes or no.

Let me put it plain and simple:

If your on a sinking ship do you jump and take your chances with the life boat or do you stay on board?

If your on a big loss trading do you stop the loss out and wait to get back on a better position or do you stay on that losing position in the 'hope' the market will turn?
Click to expand...


Hear your reasons and all good and well. I do think in the short term Scotland could be like the Norsk countries too. However, whilst our shared history maybe 300 years, I wonder how much longer oil will last?

As much as I would like Scotland to be part of the UK, wishing you bon voyage if you don't.
 
shugster said:
Why should I have to travel to England for a job that pays?
Click to expand...
Because that's where the job that pays is? Being independent won't suddenly create jobs that pay. There's a reason employment is so dire in Scotland and it won't go away with a YES vote. Quite the opposite. All it'll do is create queues at the border crossing while the UKBA ensure all your paperwork is correct before allowing you in to the UK.
 
Pat Riley said:
All it'll do is create queues at the border crossing while the UKBA ensure all your paperwork is correct before allowing you in to the UK.
Click to expand...

The Scots who want a "Yes" are banking on the hope that that won't happen. What I feel is that the young ones who do vote "Yes" will be the ones who emigrate if the country does not work. The same will happen in Cataluña, where I am.

All this is an unknown quantity. How anyone can say that things cannot be worse than they are have not thought it through. It can get worse. It may get better but it can get worse.
 
If there is a YES vote they may leave the EU and be a sort of Hong Kong on the edge of Europe ?
 
Pat Riley said:
Because that's where the job that pays is? Being independent won't suddenly create jobs that pay. There's a reason employment is so dire in Scotland and it won't go away with a YES vote. Quite the opposite. All it'll do is create queues at the border crossing while the UKBA ensure all your paperwork is correct before allowing you in to the UK.
Click to expand...

We are together now, England have jobs we don't, England are making our decisions, testing us as guinea pigs with there ideas like council tax and bedroom tax first to see how it goes. Do you allow your partner to make all your decisions? or would you like to make your own?

Things aren't working as they are can we at least agree to that?

if so, the common sense thing to look at is changing what you are doing to get different results, does that make sense to you?

Keep dialing the same number and you will keep getting the same person on the line, change the number and you will get someone else.

A fly will bounce off a light bulb a thousand times or a window more than a thousand times, why is this?

I'll tell you why if you wish...because it hasn't the brains to realize that doing the same thing that doesn't work 5 times or a thousand times won't make the window go away.

Why should I vote for the same thing that's not working, i would have to be as crazy as that fly:LOL:
 
Pat494 said:
If there is a YES vote they may leave the EU and be a sort of Hong Kong on the edge of Europe ?
Click to expand...


International rules stipulate that access to resources outside of any countries coastline of 12m, is then a case subject to following considerations;

1. Land mass
2. Coast line
3. Proximity
4. Population size

Don't see why the UK should give its rights up to North Sea Oil and Scotland shouldn't think it belongs all to them.

England has just as much right if not more to NSO as Scotland.

That's going to be some late night negotiations on the division of those resources. :idea:
 
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