reminiscence of(yet) a (novice)trader

aag, great post. i've been in pretty much the same situation as you for the past year or so, so i'm far from being successful. but here's my 2 cents anyway

i'm trading using 10m frame as well (in combination of 15m and sometime 30m). i reckon there are on average 2 or 3 good opportunities every week for a decent entry, or even less. i too traded between 5 to 10 times a week, which, with no exceptions, make up the causes for my losses.

but recently i've started to trade much less, and started to break even. so, in this business, less is definitely more.

you talked about the market being rigged. well. of course it is. but not quite in the same sense that you said.

the whole place is a casino, with everything, everywhere, designed and executed to take money out of your pocket. does you vendor have a hand in it? probably. mine certainly is a bit naughty every now n then, flashing couple of pips more than it shows on the chart. but being a casino, your vendor is the dealer, the last man in the line of commands. his main job is to keep you playing. Deliberate 'un-sporting' behaviour is unnecessary, and ruins his reputation in the long run, which will see him losing his job.

So why is it that time and again the market hits your (and my) stop loss before resuming your predicted direction? Why is it that you are (and I am) lured into entering at what turned out to be the worst place for an entry and bailing out at the worst exit so often?

I don’t have any actual data to back my answer to that question, but I’m pretty certain that you and I represent the average of such a large group of yet-to-be-successful traders, and our behaviours have been so extensively studied that the ‘house’ knows EXACTLY how to make us leap at an entry and an exit. and it will treat us like lemmings by doing it again and again, but we do behave like lemmings and keep on jumping. I know this sounds like all the other ‘trading know how guides’ and ‘trading psychology need to know’ stuff (seems hardcore advice, but really is unsubstantial non sense), but maybe you should (I am certainly trying) think about not just what the market is going to do next, but also what the market, or the house, want YOU to do next.

On a different subject. This is my own preference, and many people are indeed making a living out using indicators. But personally, I think trading using indicators is like waiting for the bank alarm to ring before jumping into your patrol wagon – you always get there a step too late and end up in a chase. Only the car you are chasing is driven by professional, and you only just got your driving license and had a few crash courses at the academy. The chances are, you’ll crash, and the getaway car keeps on skipping into the distance. And if you paper trade, it’s like giving chase in a video game - if you crash, there’s always a reset button.

Anyway, happy new year and happy trading.
 
Indicators are always historical in their very nature. The market is forever evolving, with an infinite possible future outcomes available. From my understanding, the main drivers in terms of short-term movements are the Central and Tier 1 banks - bucket shops and spread betters will also control their own synthetic markets to a point.

Although Systemic systems do work - and some will, but not in every market condition or market situation, I am intrigued by the notion of "dancing with the market" .... so no fixed stop-loss or take profit in place. Being flexible and being able to adapt is in my opinion the most profitable and sustainable way to be ..... so jump in early on a trend, keep adding to your winners, take profits on some of the position when price action stabilizes .... add again after retracement.

Money management is ultimately the key IMHO ... this is how I'm learning to trade short-term. Note that to date, I have mainly traded medium to longer-term strategies.

Wishing you guys a prosperous and happy new year!
 
tally for 2013.

trades points average
win 1100 4099 3.72
draw 191
loss 381 6740 17.69
total -2641


i'll write that off as the cost of doing business.surprised it actually wasnt more with some of the ridiculous trades i took and then didnt cut as i watched them go against me.-630 points alone in the last 2 weeks of 2013.
2 shorts in ftse and 2 in dax finally throwing in the towel at -630.would have lost another 400 if i had held.it was nice to see them continue the rally as normally the SOBs reverse as soon as i cut.
2014 will be totally different as ive resolved to cut losses at 10-20 points with a maximum loss i'll allow of 200 points for a month and the following month i'll just paper trade working on strategy.
happy new year all.
 
tally for 2013.

trades points average
win 1100 4099 3.72
draw 191
loss 381 6740 17.69
total -2641


i'll write that off as the cost of doing business.surprised it actually wasnt more with some of the ridiculous trades i took and then didnt cut as i watched them go against me.-630 points alone in the last 2 weeks of 2013.
2 shorts in ftse and 2 in dax finally throwing in the towel at -630.would have lost another 400 if i had held.it was nice to see them continue the rally as normally the SOBs reverse as soon as i cut.
2014 will be totally different as ive resolved to cut losses at 10-20 points with a maximum loss i'll allow of 200 points for a month and the following month i'll just paper trade working on strategy.
happy new year all.

If you dont mind me stating the bleeding obvious, you have some serious MM issues which need to be resolved, however lets move onto the easy fixes.......stop trading equity indexes if you want to 'swing' day trade (scalping no doubt is viable, trading the trend wld be also) unless your MO is buying pullbacks (shame it wasnt).....try smthg which actually does fluctuate ie fx (not the best mkt but v liquid....allegedly), or commods......perhaps then you can understand price for what it shld be known as.... just a number.......or cash all your assets in and buy stocks at any price til the ctrl +p ends sometime towards the end of this year for US (guess), or 2015 for euro stocks.


To edit and mirror others, sterling work rate......just need to adjust the crosshairs slightly and continue....g/l.


Take all of this with a pinch of salt, sounds familiar though hence my 2p's worth.
 
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If you dont mind me stating the bleeding obvious, you have some serious MM issues which need to be resolved, however lets move onto the easy fixes.......stop trading equity indexes if you want to 'swing' day trade (scalping no doubt is viable, trading the trend wld be also) unless your MO is buying pullbacks (shame it wasnt).....try smthg which actually does fluctuate ie fx (not the best mkt but v liquid....allegedly), or commods......perhaps then you can understand price for what it shld be known as.... just a number.......or cash all your assets in and buy stocks at any price til the ctrl +p ends sometime towards the end of this year for US (guess), or 2015 for euro stocks.


To edit and mirror others, sterling work rate......just need to adjust the crosshairs slightly and continue....g/l.


Take all of this with a pinch of salt, sounds familiar though hence my 2p's worth.

i dont mind at all.i will be taking a serious look at all aspects of my trading.i know i can win if i just stop repeating the same 2/3 mistakes i make.
 
aag, great post. i've been in pretty much the same situation as you for the past year or so, so i'm far from being successful. but here's my 2 cents anyway

i'm trading using 10m frame as well (in combination of 15m and sometime 30m). i reckon there are on average 2 or 3 good opportunities every week for a decent entry, or even less. i too traded between 5 to 10 times a week, which, with no exceptions, make up the causes for my losses.

but recently i've started to trade much less, and started to break even. so, in this business, less is definitely more.

you talked about the market being rigged. well. of course it is. but not quite in the same sense that you said.

the whole place is a casino, with everything, everywhere, designed and executed to take money out of your pocket. does you vendor have a hand in it? probably. mine certainly is a bit naughty every now n then, flashing couple of pips more than it shows on the chart. but being a casino, your vendor is the dealer, the last man in the line of commands. his main job is to keep you playing. Deliberate 'un-sporting' behaviour is unnecessary, and ruins his reputation in the long run, which will see him losing his job.

So why is it that time and again the market hits your (and my) stop loss before resuming your predicted direction? Why is it that you are (and I am) lured into entering at what turned out to be the worst place for an entry and bailing out at the worst exit so often?

I don’t have any actual data to back my answer to that question, but I’m pretty certain that you and I represent the average of such a large group of yet-to-be-successful traders, and our behaviours have been so extensively studied that the ‘house’ knows EXACTLY how to make us leap at an entry and an exit. and it will treat us like lemmings by doing it again and again, but we do behave like lemmings and keep on jumping. I know this sounds like all the other ‘trading know how guides’ and ‘trading psychology need to know’ stuff (seems hardcore advice, but really is unsubstantial non sense), but maybe you should (I am certainly trying) think about not just what the market is going to do next, but also what the market, or the house, want YOU to do next.

On a different subject. This is my own preference, and many people are indeed making a living out using indicators. But personally, I think trading using indicators is like waiting for the bank alarm to ring before jumping into your patrol wagon – you always get there a step too late and end up in a chase. Only the car you are chasing is driven by professional, and you only just got your driving license and had a few crash courses at the academy. The chances are, you’ll crash, and the getaway car keeps on skipping into the distance. And if you paper trade, it’s like giving chase in a video game - if you crash, there’s always a reset button.

Anyway, happy new year and happy trading.

what mistakes have you been making and what will you be doing to resolve them?
 
i dont mind at all.i will be taking a serious look at all aspects of my trading.i know i can win if i just stop repeating the same 2/3 mistakes i make.

A healthy attitude to have.
 
So important to get a grip on one's own life and go that extra mile imho
 
four months into the new year and looking back,doesnt time fly.but at the time,waiting for a trade seems to take forever.
so i was supposed to spend january paper trading and working on my strategy and for the whole of one day i did.then i got bored and dived straight back in,winning some,then losing a bit more.by the end of the month i was 200 points down,annoyed with myself but happy that i stuck to part of the plan-not losing more than 200.
so because i should have been paper trading january,i thought id now paper trade the whole of feb instead.and needless to say i didnt!
i got straight back on the horse.again not winning or losing much i thought i was getting better by taking fewer trades and trying to be more disciplined.after a while not winning or losing much begins to irk and i seem to have self destructed.doubling/tripling up,losing 400 points in one day.i was extremely annoyed with myself for not cutting sooner.i had the opportunity to cut at -70 or even -170
but didnt and finally brought myself to cut it where i did.then it was nice to see it continue going the way it did, i would have been -800 if id held which was a little respite as normally the SOB turns as soon as i cut it.
i really needed to step back and once again think about what i was doing.why was i repeating the same mistakes.
-why was i buying/selling so close to support/resistence expecting them to break
-why was i trying to catch the tail end of a move,even though this say 20% of the move resulted in 80% of the gains,yet if i entered it would whip back up the other way.
well anyway,i still havent managed to paper trade a whole month. im trying not to repeat the same mistakes and im up a little for mar/apr.now to claw the rest of it back.
 
You have obviously got the " bug " and can't stop trading. So decide which it is to be and stick to it:-
1. demo account
2. Minimum stakes

Until - halelujah - you get it right.

:clap:
 
You have obviously got the " bug " and can't stop trading. So decide which it is to be and stick to it:-
1. demo account
2. Minimum stakes

Until - halelujah - you get it right.

:clap:

its a bug but not the one i started with.just as you think you have a grip it mutates.
 
so close i can smell the blood
for the last few days i have been running losses/multiple positions(3-5) to upto -200 points with no stop loss in mind but waiting for a certain change in the patterns i look for and then managing to scalp my way back to break even or even a small win.
i know this is crap trading and is similar to what i was doing before where i racked up minus hundreds. only this time i am not revenge trading and not taking trades against the pattern and actually cutting losses at opportune times when the pattern changes.
my question is what am i missing.why am i entering a little too early and then having to go to great lengths to get back to break even.
before after sitting for hours through the pain of watching mounting losses i wasnt prepared to cut when it came back to say -10/20 from -100.i wanted a small win atleast,even knowing the pattern had changed and then see it whip back to -100 and finally cutting it because i didnt want to go through the agony of another rollercoaster ride.
if i wasnt losing would i be so aggressive to get it back is another question too.
so what is the final piece to this jigsaw
 
Hi aag100

Before i give you some parts for the jigsaw - a few quick questions

How many hours do you reckon you have spent looking and watching live charts under a 15 min time frame for the last few years.?

Would it be under 5 hrs a week - so say less than 250 hrs a year?

Would it be over 20 hrs a week - so say over 800 hrs a year?

Next question - how long have you been learning ??

What do you mainly trade and what is your method based on - hr - 4hr - daily - weekly charts ??

Once you reply - I then can start helping you ;-)

Regards

F
 
Hi aag100

Before i give you some parts for the jigsaw - a few quick questions

How many hours do you reckon you have spent looking and watching live charts under a 15 min time frame for the last few years.?

Would it be under 5 hrs a week - so say less than 250 hrs a year?

Would it be over 20 hrs a week - so say over 800 hrs a year?

Next question - how long have you been learning ??

What do you mainly trade and what is your method based on - hr - 4hr - daily - weekly charts ??

Once you reply - I then can start helping you ;-)

Regards

F

hi F,
i have been learning for nearly 4yrs,putting in about 25hrs/wk of screen time and now im getting serious with formulating a strategy and incorporating some rules
eg- no trading in bed
no trading sunday night as soon as the markets open
trying to stay out before news
no trading before uk open,closing out at close(hate losing extra points in roll charges/increased spread/dividends)
to name a few.
i try to focus on ftse/dax/euro/aussie-mainly because i like the 1 point spread which is easier to get in and out of.
as for time frame,i now focus on the 5min with also checking on the 15/60mins.
now i close out at the end of the day.holding overnight gave me sleepless nights and the volatility on openings can be painful.longer time frames require bigger risk and holding positions longer.
your the first person i agree with about the time frame is your trend.
i know i need to focus a little more on patience and discipline.this is good therapy,looking back and having to think about my trading.
I welcome your input which might help me think in other ways.
regards AA.
 
hi F,
i have been learning for nearly 4yrs,putting in about 25hrs/wk of screen time and now im getting serious with formulating a strategy and incorporating some rules
eg- no trading in bed
no trading sunday night as soon as the markets open
trying to stay out before news
no trading before uk open,closing out at close(hate losing extra points in roll charges/increased spread/dividends)
to name a few.
i try to focus on ftse/dax/euro/aussie-mainly because i like the 1 point spread which is easier to get in and out of.
as for time frame,i now focus on the 5min with also checking on the 15/60mins.
now i close out at the end of the day.holding overnight gave me sleepless nights and the volatility on openings can be painful.longer time frames require bigger risk and holding positions longer.
your the first person i agree with about the time frame is your trend.
i know i need to focus a little more on patience and discipline.this is good therapy,looking back and having to think about my trading.
I welcome your input which might help me think in other ways.
regards AA.

Hi AA

well what ever you do - dont give up now - you must be over 70% there now as I reckon you have done over 3000 live hrs

To get to a great level - many say you need 10k+ hrs behind you and its normally between 3 k and 5k when you get a few Eureka moments

By watching live charts on small frames - it can be very boring - similar to watching paint dry or trees grow - you will read PA better and start to understand wave patterns and time changes and the effects of news and key times of the day

If you want to day trade - then the ideal waves you want are 10 -50 pips and ideally on 10 pip or less stop size - so your wins can get RR's ideally over 2or 3+

As you develop you will see the link between the world maps on the yearly quarterly monthly and weekly charts with the OS maps ie tick / 1 min to 15 min charts

Its all readable - even the noise - but the level you get too all depends on your time and commitment and your focus /disciplines / MM / mindset / etc etc

PS - it does get easier - but maybe 70% give up before they crack the puzzle or the game or whatever you want to call it

Stay in the game with advanced MM and just keep learning - with a tip being - the devil is in the detail - the detail all depends on your whether you can live with many trades a day and cope with losses but good rates of returns - or just a few trades with less stress - but only average returns

Keep it going


Get watching the paint dry from European Open to 5 /6 pm UK time and tell me when you have your next Eureka find :)

It will be there - promise you


Regards


F
 
I have no intention of giving up now.you have probably come across that picture of 2 men digging a tunnel and one giving up just at the point of break through.
there have been many eureka moments along the way.each time inching forward then being knocked down getting back up and moving forward stronger.
my net loss has been due to me not cutting losses early and letting them run into hundreds - wont be doing that again! trade win ratio is 3:1 but losing trades have been 10 times bigger.i would be well in profit if I cut losses at 20/30 points.each losing trade has been like a ******* son gone wrong who you want to see come good but now I'll be strangling them after inception as soon as I know they've gone wrong.
watching the charts is like watching paint dry and after around 5pm(gmt) it's like they've turned down the temperature and its drying even slower.
 
came across someones rant about indicators.
about how useless they are and that you should take them off your charts.fair enough i thought,the guys been trading 10 odd years he might now know a thing or two about trading.until he mentioned how he used rsi of 2.which whipsaws like ****.no wonder he hates indicators,he doesnt know how to use them.
indicators are lagging im repeatedly told.but the price hitting here then coming down or dropping to here then coming back up(support/resistence) are supposedly not indicators.
dont be blind sided by your prejudices.somethings might work for you others may not but it doesnt mean your right and someone else is wrong.theres different degrees of right.if your constantly losing then your definetly wrong and if your winning more than someone else then your more right.
makes sense in my mind after a long day.
 
thanks to your advices =) im sure they r very usefull for newbies, how long have u being trading?
 
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