price & stops

[wasp]

Wasp lets close the universities and this way we both be happy rolf,, All we need to compete in world is not education it is a PINT of beer hey you happy now rofl

grey1

Can't deny my point then Grey1... As NT just pointed out, tight stops are for those who are looking for the best entries and those using wider stops aren't trying for the best entries and using volatility as an excuse.

P+L comes from entry, exit, risk and management. One does not rule higher, they are all factors.

Next time you place a trade and work out your stop... think about this... If I need a larger stop than usual, am I really getting in at the best price?

Anyhow... 2 camps here that won't change their minds but remember kids, what we say is irrelevant and ignore Grey1's comments about who to, and who not to listen too...

What matters is your bottom line and taking the minimal losses and the most profits to make the money you require to feed your family. So don't decide by this thread, think!

Am I getting in at the best price and will I suffer the smallest loss I can if I'm wrong? If so, you go for it!

... I shall be bowing out now as it is Saturday, thank you, and goodnight!

 

[Grey1]

er, please don't let the disagreement degenerate into personal criticism guys. thanks.

So far as the topic is concerned I note that DOW recently has been gyrating 15 - 20 points within seconds whether or not it's been in a strong trend down or up, or at turning points. I'm not sure what "tight stops" means in these circumstances, but if anyone's been using 10 points or less successfully then I doff my cap to them.

good trading

jon

spot on , spot on spot on

I would take off my cap too barjon ,, I really would,, Friday afternoon was40 points /1 min bar wednesday was even worse,,,volatilty is immense and risk to account large.

Reduce pos size by volatilty level and widen ur stop ,, go for longer run , This is what i am doing now

Grey1

Grey1

 

[Grey1]

Can't deny my point then Grey1... As NT just pointed out, tight stops are for those who are looking for the best entries and those using wider stops aren't trying for the best entries and using volatility as an excuse.

P+L comes from entry, exit, risk and management. One does not rule higher, they are all factors.

Next time you place a trade and work out your stop... think about this... If I need a larger stop than usual, am I really getting in at the best price?

Anyhow... 2 camps here that won't change their minds but remember kids, what we say is irrelevant and ignore Grey1's comments about who to, and who not to listen too...

What matters is your bottom line and taking the minimal losses and the most profits to make the money you require to feed your family. So don't decide by this thread, think!

Am I getting in at the best price and will I suffer the smallest loss I can if I'm wrong? If so, you go for it!

... I shall be bowing out now as it is Saturday, thank you, and goodnight!

sorry i cannot reply to ur posts any more as i belive in education/ knowledge and you blame education ,, the difference is between black and white

grey1

 

[Paul71]

I do not understand the constant reference to gloating or boasting. I am trying to explain what EVERY trader should be aiming for, not just the elitists. Let's say you did use a 400 point stop, are you honestly suggesting that if the market moved against you 399 points you would still accept your entry was good? Seriously?! 399 makes it a good entry and just 1 point, 1 freaking point, a move of 0.25% in the wrong direction makes it a misjudgement...or volatility!??? Are you for real???

ROFL! (tears in my eyes)

 

[Grey1]

Those of you who are interested in knowledge and risk and its management.
Those of you who want to eventually get profitable
Those of you who wish to improve your account
Those of you who want to make proper $$ from this game

Trading is a statistical game,, the edge kicks in the long term and not short term

try to understand what are the roots of evil ,, what might bankrup you .

start with understanding volatilty indicators such as VIX for intra day trading and how it works ,, they are relevant to all time frames ,, 1 min to 10 years
Donot ignore knowledge and donot close doors to yourself

Why Volatility Index VIX Is Important for Asset Allocation (ETF: SPY) - Seeking Alpha

another starter link

grey1

 

[counter_violent]

Yeh, the same Ivy league tw*ts who thought they smart rebundling debt into financial instruments. W*NKERS!

Sorry, Grey, not really aimed at you as such.

Yes clearly some uni-grads are educated beyond their own intelligence !

 

[counter_violent]

er, please don't let the disagreement degenerate into personal criticism guys. thanks.

So far as the topic is concerned I note that DOW recently has been gyrating 15 - 20 points within seconds whether or not it's been in a strong trend down or up, or at turning points. I'm not sure what "tight stops" means in these circumstances, but if anyone's been using 10 points or less successfully then I doff my cap to them.

good trading

jon

Your too kind Jon

30 - 40 points is pretty much every 1min candle presently on the dow.

Respectfully.. anyone trying to tell me they can use a 5 or 10 or 20 point stop in these conditions is a fantasist !

Or trading a demo account

 

[firewalker99]

Those of you who are interested in knowledge and risk and its management.
Those of you who want to eventually get profitable
Those of you who wish to improve your account
Those of you who want to make proper $$ from this game

Trading is a statistical game,, the edge kicks in the long term and not short term

try to understand what are the roots of evil ,, what might bankrup you .

start with understanding volatilty indicators such as VIX for intra day trading and how it works ,, they are relevant to all time frames ,, 1 min to 10 years
Donot ignore knowledge and donot close doors to yourself

Why Volatility Index VIX Is Important for Asset Allocation (ETF: SPY) - Seeking Alpha

another starter link

grey1

And for everyone else who wants to understand how markets really work, and eventually learn to make a living from it: study real-time charts until your eyes bleed. Close all your textbooks, ignore what this or that guru says on his website and decide for yourself what's best.

The road less travelled, is not only the most interesting and challenging one, but ultimately the most rewarding one.

 

[firewalker99]

30 - 40 points is pretty much every 1min candle presently on the dow.

Respectfully.. anyone trying to tell me they can use a 5 or 10 or 20 point stop in these conditions is a fantacist !

Or trading a demo account

You would probably be shocked to hear it is possible to enter a trade without the trade going against you, and immediately moving in the right direction, thus making it possible to move your stop to breakeven within seconds rather than minutes.

 

[new_trader]

You would probably be shocked to hear it is possible to enter a trade without the trade going against you, and immediately moving in the right direction, thus making it possible to move your stop to breakeven within seconds rather than minutes.

Exactly...."in these conditions"

 

[counter_violent]

You would probably be shocked to hear it is possible to enter a trade without the trade going against you, and immediately moving in the right direction, thus making it possible to move your stop to breakeven within seconds rather than minutes.

Of course it's possible.....but is not probable...and thats what counts.

 

[Grey1]

Of course it's possible.....but is not probable...and thats what counts.

It is possible me winning the Euro lotto but not probable.. and thats what counts

Sport on counter

Grey1

 

[firewalker99]

It is possible me winning the Euro lotto but not probable.. and thats what counts

Sport on counter

Grey1

Of course it's possible.....but is not probable...and thats what counts.

I suggest you guys join a trading room with some real traders.
I'm sure you can get an idea about where to look.

 

[barjon]

You would probably be shocked to hear it is possible to enter a trade without the trade going against you, and immediately moving in the right direction, thus making it possible to move your stop to breakeven within seconds rather than minutes.

Fire,

Well, as I said, I doff my cap to you. It sure hasn't been possible for me even though my desk is swimming in the blood from my eyes. No matter, though, I turn a bob or two even if my entries must be seen a haphazard by comparison.

Each to their own, I suppose. As someone said (td, I think) it's the consistency in your bottom line that matters in the end, however you get there.

good trading

jon

 

[firewalker99]

Fire,

Well, as I said, I doff my cap to you. It sure hasn't been possible for me even though my desk is swimming in the blood from my eyes. No matter, though, I turn a bob or two even if my entries must be seen a haphazard by comparison.

Each to their own, I suppose. As someone said (td, I think) it's the consistency in your bottom line that matters in the end, however you get there.

good trading

jon

If you are focusing on bars and candles instead of price itself, than odds are indeed lower that you would succeed. It goes without saying that I'm by no means the expert on the matter, but since I left the 'commonly accepted knowledge' behind, I've made great progress.

 

[Grey1]

Your too kind Jon

30 - 40 points is pretty much every 1min candle presently on the dow.

Respectfully.. anyone trying to tell me they can use a 5 or 10 or 20 point stop in these conditions is a fantacist !

Or trading a demo account

Counter,, you are not fantasist,, and so correct,, this is why as soon as you ask these fantasist to LIVE trading room they panic and see a need to wash their hair.

I have had similar issue with other traders who claim they can catch stock's moves with 1 cent stoploss and a reward of Dollars and the more you argue the less you win , These people start trading first then educate themselves along the line,, most of them get wiped, Some come back to continue their gambling habit in the same manner and get wiped again ,,

The fact is this,,, Trading needs education like any other subject and people who have not been lucky enough to get a formal education are given a second chance by people likemyself or others on this BB but the problem still lies for people like firewalker who has not had the proper training and not qualified what so ever to make a comment about risk managment and as a result stopping others from learning . This was the reason we BANNED him .

Look at this thread for example ,, it could have been a top thread but was ruined by a guy who thinks volatility means jack **** and irrelevant in intra day trading . What am I going to say to this guy except ignoring his posts ,,

Any way ,,, Good trading and I liked the post even though it was only 1 line

grey1

 

[barjon]

If you are focusing on bars and candles instead of price itself, than odds are indeed lower that you would succeed. It goes without saying that I'm by no means the expert on the matter, but since I left the 'commonly accepted knowledge' behind, I've made great progress.

yes, it's the price - hence my earlier comments about the within seconds wild gyrations we have been seeing recently.

cheers

jon

 

[firewalker99]

Counter,, you are not fantasist,, and so correct,, this is why as soon as you ask these fantasist to LIVE trading room they panic and see a need to wash their hair.

I invited you to see me make live trades. I even suggested we do it out here. But you only wanted to do it in front of your buddies on PAL TALK...

If you are still up for the challenge, I'll be here on Monday

 

[firewalker99]

yes, it's the price - hence my earlier comments about the within seconds wild gyrations we have been seeing recently.

cheers

jon

What timeframe do you think the chart below is? And if you went long at the green dot or short at the red dot (for example), how tight could your stop be if you would place it below or above the last swing?

 

[counter_violent]

Any way ,,, Good trading and I liked the post even though it was only 1 line

grey1[/QUOTE]

Thanks.

I'm a firm believer in the saying..."less is more"...as a result of this I tend to use One liners to get the message across....