New Trades Thread

[Erasmus]

I have a question too.

This started as a thread of live calls (and seems to have got a bit diverted)' - but more interesting than what someone has done is why. So it's great that you posted your long oil and S&P call options Lúidín, but what I'd like to know please is why you went long those two? Thanks.

 

[Lúidín]

^i would ask what was the worst that could happen-what would be your max loss.
Re no experience-i would say that you needed some rules-eg no overnight holds and to know about gaps and stocks being suspended etc.

your loss will be much larger than it should be..if you do not do exactly as you are told

the only rule you need to follow..is..do exactly as you are told

what would you say now?

 

[hhiusa]

Initially I used to buy shares through a broker.You could make a transaction and had 14 days to settle the contract-i sold before i had to pay the full amount.
After a number of yrs i switched to c.m.c and traded cfds as you could short stocks and indices.So you were not tied to the buy side

That sounds an awful lot like someone with a credit card who bought something that they cannot afford and are returning it in 14 days.

This still fails to answer my question. Why would you not £4,000 to buy the stock? You said that you had no intention of paying the £4,000 for the stock? Why is it? If you have the money to buy the stock, why do you leverage?

I understand what Erasmus was saying about stamp duty. I thought stamp duty applied only to UK stocks and not necessarily to UK citizens. If you are in the UK and trade a US equity, then there is no stamp duty right?

 

[Erasmus]

If you are in the UK and trade a US equity, then there is no stamp duty right?

Correct

 

[hhiusa]

My program told me to buy SGEN:XNAS @ 40.61 and FL:XNYS @ 66.00 if it reached those prices by the end of the day, but clearly the conditions will not be met today.

 

[Lúidín]

I have a question too.

This started as a thread of live calls (and seems to have got a bit diverted)' - but more interesting than what someone has done is why. So it's great that you posted your long oil and S&P call options Lúidín, but what I'd like to know please is why you went long those two? Thanks.

simple..because i thought that the spx would rebound and oil also..but i was wrong

the question is why did i think that..and the answer is..i should not have thought without analysis..but i did..my fault..my money..my loss (if we don't go back up by tomorrow)

using mobile phone is fine if you keep risk real small..i forgot myself yesterday..it happens..not too often..but once is too often..and this is why i am doing what i am doing..it is all part of the conditioning..for..daytrading the us open is very serious trading..prices can move rapidly with large changes in price

in order to trade the us open effectively..you must have no thoughts about direction..and..you must be willing and able to reverse trade when required..no ifs..no buts

once you can do that..and use a very simple entry exit criteria..making money is a piece of pi.s.s..

i am not worried if i lose on my option trades..i have much higher gains in sight..but i also know what is required before i can achieve it..hence i am working on it right now

 

[itspossible]

That sounds an awful lot like someone with a credit card who bought something that they cannot afford and are returning it in 14 days.

This still fails to answer my question. Why would you not £4,000 to buy the stock? You said that you had no intention of paying the £4,000 for the stock? Why is it? If you have the money to buy the stock, why do you leverage?

I understand what Erasmus was saying about stamp duty. I thought stamp duty applied only to UK stocks and not necessarily to UK citizens. If you are in the UK and trade a US equity, then there is no stamp duty right?

Im not sure what the procedure is now or in the usa for buying stocks but as mentioned i just wanted to punt the financial instrument that was the stock.i did not want to marry it.if my broker had said that i needed to pay 4k up front for m and s then i would have bought it outright .I then would have sold it for a profit or small loss.I was new to the game then and just learning.all i knew was stocks.cfds then came along.I then had the brains to withdraw a lot of money from my trading account and pay off part of my mortgage that was something like %8 at the time.
I do understand your question and understand that you buy and hold as part of your portfolio and buy the stock outright.When i used to buy stocks i suppose my capital allowed me to buy several stocks using leverage and then sell quickly.

 

[itspossible]

your loss will be much larger than it should be..if you do not do exactly as you are told

the only rule you need to follow..is..do exactly as you are told

what would you say now?

i would never do it.i would doubt it as im a cynic

 

[mike.]

i have a question and was wondering what answer people might give

if someone said to you..that..they could show you how to daytrade one single stock effectively..every day..and it would take no more than 5 minutes to show you what to do..and you need no experience with trading what so ever..in fact..you are much better off if you have no experience

what would you say?

I am slightly different to I.P,

I would like to see proof (satisfying to me) of the success before i made that decision, But, yes , i would be interested.

 

[hhiusa]

Im not sure what the procedure is now or in the usa for buying stocks but as mentioned i just wanted to punt the financial instrument that was the stock.i did not want to marry it.if my broker had said that i needed to pay 4k up front for m and s then i would have bought it outright .I then would have sold it for a profit or small loss.I was new to the game then and just learning.all i knew was stocks.cfds then came along.I then had the brains to withdraw a lot of money from my trading account and pay off part of my mortgage that was something like %8 at the time.
I do understand your question and understand that you buy and hold as part of your portfolio and buy the stock outright.When i used to buy stocks i suppose my capital allowed me to buy several stocks using leverage and then sell quickly.

You may not really have an answer to question, which is alright. I would just be curious as to why you leveraged if you have the capital. It does make sense to use CFDs to avoid stamp duty, but if you trade foreign equities that point is moot. I do understand the purpose for "punting" as you say. I am just trying to understand all the options.

 

[Lúidín]

i would never do it.i would doubt it as im a cynic

you are not alone

 

[hhiusa]

I ran an interesting hypothetical thought experiment in Excel. I did it for several financial instruments but this one provided the most intriguing results. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Lúidín]

I am slightly different to I.P,

I would like to see proof (satisfying to me) of the success before i made that decision, But, yes , i would be interested.

why would you need proof..you only need proof of something if you are paying for it..if it is free you need no proof..you either accept it can be done..if you do exactly as you are told to do..or you do not

the proof is when you try it..knowing beforehand..if you do not do exactly as told..you will lose..guaranteed

the only certainty is uncertainty..so why would anyone look for certainty when daytrading

if you try and predict short term market movements..you are looking for certainty..as you want the price to move to your prediction..while..the facts are..it can move anway..no one knows..it is uncertain

it might be far better..to trade the market with no predictions..and..instead of looking at the chart as a forecasting tool..which means looking for certainty..you look at the chart as a timing tool..which tells you when to get in..reverse trade..and get out

now what would you say?

 

[itspossible]

it might be far better..to trade the market with no predictions..and..instead of looking at the chart as a forecasting tool..which means looking for certainty..you look at the chart as a timing tool..which tells you when to get in..reverse trade..and get out

now what would you say?

I would say yes to a lot of that but i would follow the trend and try and take a little piece.If wrong get out.Timing is very important.

 

[hhiusa]

I would say yes to a lot of that but i would follow the trend and try and take a little piece.If wrong get out.Timing is very important.

I think timing is important as well. I use more of a de facto time stop and than a price stop.

 

[tokyojoe]

why would you need proof..you only need proof of something if you are paying for it..if it is free you need no proof..you either accept it can be done..if you do exactly as you are told to do..or you do not

the proof is when you try it..knowing beforehand..if you do not do exactly as told..you will lose..guaranteed

the only certainty is uncertainty..so why would anyone look for certainty when daytrading

if you try and predict short term market movements..you are looking for certainty..as you want the price to move to your prediction..while..the facts are..it can move anway..no one knows..it is uncertain

it might be far better..to trade the market with no predictions..and..instead of looking at the chart as a forecasting tool..which means looking for certainty..you look at the chart as a timing tool..which tells you when to get in..reverse trade..and get out

now what would you say?

I would say good post, but I have a slightly different view, although the market cannot necessarily be predicted, the traps can be read, but it does take concentration & a double trap will leave you wondering where the first trap was born if your eye is not on the ball, the trickery can be read.

The whole chart prediction milarky is somewhat vague, the charts often appear holographic, following trend lines, horizontals, 00zero areas etc etc, but it's all about misdirection & traps at the end of the day.

Doing exactly what you are told would have to entail

enter ? correct ? yes ? hold.....wait for aggressive turn
enter ? correct ? no ? out ! ......onto the next
rinse & repeat

The bad holds have been the day trading demon for me.

If you are being cut by a thousand knives, become better at reading traps.

 

[Lúidín]

I would say yes to a lot of that but i would follow the trend and try and take a little piece.If wrong get out.Timing is very important.

remember the topic..daytrading the us open..it is a different ballgame to trading at other times..the main reason being..it is the start of the day..and people with big money have already made their decisions in advance..so there will be rapid movements as they try to average in..and with the algo traders interfering..prices will even move more rapidly and multi-directional

timing is not important when daytrading..timing is everything!

Time = Money :idea:

now what do you say?

 

[Lúidín]

I would say good post, but I have a slightly different view, although the market cannot necessarily be predicted, the traps can be read, but it does take concentration & a double trap will leave you wondering where the first trap was born if your eye is not on the ball, the trickery can be read.

The whole chart prediction milarky is somewhat vague, the charts often appear holographic, following trend lines, horizontals, 00zero areas etc etc, but it's all about misdirection & traps at the end of the day.

Doing exactly what you are told would have to entail

enter ? correct ? yes ? hold.....wait for aggressive turn
enter ? correct ? no ? out ! ......onto the next
rinse & repeat

The bad holds have been the day trading demon for me.

If you are being cut by a thousand knives, become better at reading traps.

it may be unwise to try and predict short term movements based on charts for daytrading..as there are too many variables to try and predict..such as averaging in and algos..as mentioned

unless you know the size of the opening working orders..and what programme the algos are set for..then your odds of getting it right..based on standard chart analysis..is very small

longer term analysis is a different matter entirely..we are only talking about daytrading the us open here

what is wise..is to find another way to enter..reverse trade..and exit the market..not based on standard chart analysis..but based on "something else"..that you have tried and tested..for many different instruments..and that you know..works..providing you do exactly what you need to do..and not get sucked in by looking at charts the wrong way

i am not saying you do not use charts..but..i might say that in the near future..as..my TwC thread is going to be a testing ground for exactly that..and..my opinion is that it might even be better to not use charts..but that will have to be proved with results

 

[mike.]

why would you need proof..you only need proof of something if you are paying for it..if it is free you need no proof..you either accept it can be done..if you do exactly as you are told to do..or you do not

the proof is when you try it..knowing beforehand..if you do not do exactly as told..you will lose..guaranteed

the only certainty is uncertainty..so why would anyone look for certainty when daytrading

if you try and predict short term market movements..you are looking for certainty..as you want the price to move to your prediction..while..the facts are..it can move anway..no one knows..it is uncertain

it might be far better..to trade the market with no predictions..and..instead of looking at the chart as a forecasting tool..which means looking for certainty..you look at the chart as a timing tool..which tells you when to get in..reverse trade..and get out

now what would you say?

Im enjoying the discussion now, you both seem to have mellowed somewhat. Is this scenario hypothetical or leading towards something ?

 

[Lúidín]

hh..can you give me the symbol for any blue chip US stock..it does not matter what it is..pick anyone you like..one you are holding..or one you hate..choice is yours