my journal

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Lost a few as some contracts got closed, still losing in the 1000s.

The question one needs to ask himself is: how big will my loss have to be before I lose control over my trade? And then one should never allow his loss to be bigger than that.

Yesterday, I should have thought of that, when I was losing 300 and I doubled up. I could have taken a loss of 400 by the systems, but by doubling up then, I put myself in a situation where I would have either won or would have had a loss that would have paralyzed me with fear.

You should ask yourself what size a loss do you fear? 500? Then never allow yourself to see a loss as big as that, because you will start acting irrationally.

You should know at which point you start taking the loss personally. I start acting irrationally at -1, because even a -1 loss upsets me. But what really gets me out of control is anything beyond 300.
 
Latest rules updated:

HOTKEYS
"B" for "buy 1 at market" with 20 ticks bracket order
"S" for "sell 1 at market" with 20 ticks bracket order
"C" for "close position"
----------------------
CHARTS
SET UP THESE CHARTS ON IB'S TWS:
1 DAY OF 1-minute ES, CL, GBP "line" mode with their 225-period slow moving averages
2 DAYS OF EUR.USD@IDEALPRO 15-minutes CANDLES WITH PIVOTS
4 HOURS OF EUR.USD@IDEALPRO 1-MINUTE CANDLES WITH 15-periods and 210-periods moving averages
----------------------
PRO-TREND DISCRETIONARY SYSTEM with daily change < 200 ticks
RULES
ENTRIES (one contract) can be made if:
1) you haven't lost > 270 dollars for the day
2) time is 15.00 to 20.00 CET
3) daily change < 200 ticks
4) you sense trend (high volume/range, no news wait, touched >= 2 pivot lines, correlated all above/below their mas)
5) your entry and your take profit are > 10 ticks away from any pivot lines or any 0.0100s levels if beyond S2 or R2
6) you're checking "correlated" chart for exact timing of entry
7) the 225-period ma is in favor by > 10 ticks
8) the 15-period ma gets crossed by price (in favor) after being on the other side >= 4 minutes
EXITS
Bracket order of 20 ticks.
Early exit if you feel your move has either failed or exhausted its momentum before reaching takeprofit.
----------------------
COUNTER-TREND DISCRETIONARY SYSTEM with daily change > 200 ticks
RULES
ENTRIES (one contract) can be made if:
1) you haven't lost > 270 dollars for the day
2) time is > 17.30 CET
3) daily change > 200 ticks
4) Price is < S2 or > R2
5) Price crosses above/below fast ma above/below any 0.0100s level that hasn't been violated by more than 10 ticks.
EXITS
Bracket order of 20 ticks.
Early exit if you feel your move has either failed or exhausted its momentum before reaching takeprofit.
----------------------
ANY TRADES OUTSIDE OF THE SYSTEM
Any discretionary trades can be made outside of the system provided that you respect your predetermined maximum loss for that trade and have a stoploss in place (regardless of how wide, even 1000 dollars).
No matter what you do, you cannot add to a losing position, whether automated or discretionary trade.
 
Bongwater movie was a good one (not excellent). The one I mentioned earlier. The closing titles song is a song I could sing to the ZN and to my ZN trades:


Another song:

 
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Now I'll go to sleep. All stress is gone. I could even lose everything. I can't hope anymore. Whatever happens happens. At least I'll sleep well for once. Finally some of my restlessness has gone. Had I not been restless yesterday, I would have just taken a loss of 400 dollars and would be making new trades today. Most likely would have recovered from yesterday's loss. Instead I doubled up, and now I am down 2300 from yesterday. It's awful... I knew it was going to happen... I didn't realize exactly how it would happen.

Yesterday when I doubled up and tripled up and today when I added more contract, I've always felt that probability was on my side, but when the 10% probability against you means you have a 10% risk of losing everything, then 90% is not enough. Because you'll lose everything every 10 trades and that's what keeps happening to me each time, or maybe losing everything every 20 such trades, which happens about once every 6 months.

Disaster... I still sucked... hopefully not anymore beginning tomorrow... I've written it all down in my rules and here...

I suck... I suck... I suck...

Hopefully tomorrow morning, when I'll wake up, I'll find a huge bounce up and see that I've recovered from all of my losses. But it's unlikely.

Bye bye...
 
Thats it. It fell further. Losing 3000 now for the overall balance of my ZN trades.
 
That 5 percent chance of blowing out my account materialized, and so on my 20th reckless martingale trade my account is getting blown out and I am powerless because the more it's been falling the more I've been expecting a bounce.
 
I was almost at 8k just two days ago and then the inevitable happened. Since I am not cured from my gambling problem, maybe because I didn't understand exactly what it consisted of.

How can that be after 12 years of blowing out accounts? I either do not understand or the addiction is too strong. Or at certain moments of trading the mind stops thinking.
 
Maybe that 5 percent risk I am running each time I do martingale trades is so small in my mind that I always fail to consider it.
 
Yeah, that's it. That's how it develops. That's how a small loss turns into a huge loss that blows out my account.

You go LONG at the market still keeps falling. Then you say: well, now it makes even more sense to go LONG and you add a LONG position. Then the market keeps falling, and you say: wow, great opportunity to add another contract... but it keeps falling. Then, after a few days, you've blown out your account.

9 times out of 10, it works. But one time out of ten it doesn't work. And you blow out your account.

Unless of course you have a million dollars and you start with 1 contract. Then your chance of succeeding is closer to 100 percent. But then if it goes your way from the start, you will be making a very small return, because you will have 1 contract invested with 1 million of capital. So, in any case, this method doesn't make sense, unless your objective is to just win at all costs your next trade, regardless of your return.

Ok, so now I've understood this mechanism, but will it prevent me from taking this risk the next time? Maybe not. Because I had understood and seen this mechanism at work each time I've blown my account before.

Maybe the loss is so big and your willingness to accept your loss is so small that you'd rather run the 5 percent risk of blowing out your account rather than accepting your loss. The bigger your loss gets the more willing you will be to risk blowing out your account in order to recover from it.

That's why you should never allow your loss to be bigger than you can accept, because it will drive you crazy.

I can't find any similar situations in other areas of life, and maybe that's why I can't get this into my head.

Maybe it's like not going to work. One day you decide you won't go to work and call in sick. The second day, it's harder to go to work, and therefore you don't go either. The third day, it's harder. The more time goes by, the more unlikely you will be to go back to work.

Maybe it's also like washing dishes, even though I rarely experience it, since I wash them immediately. If you don't wash them one day out of laziness, the next day there'll be more dishes. But then your laziness of yesterday will be there today as well, except the dishes are more. Eventually you're going to feel overwhelmed and not know what to do.

The same happens with being tidy and orderly, whereby you're either tidy all the time or never. That's why I don't believe in putting things in order but in keeping things in order. Because as the number of days increases since the last time you put everything in order, your order decreases and you're benefitting from it first of all. But second of all, because you're overwhelmed by disorder and that keeps you from being tidy in the first place. So you get home and you should hang your jacket rather than throw it somewhere. That way you keep tidy, rather than having to tidy up your room once in a while, which is useless.

Anyway, of all these examples, maybe washing dishes is the one that fits best: you should not allow your losses to cumulate like you don't allow your dishes to pile up in the sink. Because the more they do, the more they will paralyze you. Because if you're too lazy to wash one dish, there's no reason you will be more likely to wash two dishes and so on. And if you're unwilling to close your trade with a loss of 100, there's no reason you will be willing to do it with a loss of 200.

There is one difference though. After a given level, if your account is still not blown out, the markets will turn around and your loss will decrease. Whereas the dishes will never start washing themselves.

Another thing in common is margin needed. If you don't have the margin, your positions will be closed, and that might save you from losing further. If you don't have the dishes, that will save you from piling up more dishes in the sink. So maybe having a small account would be as good as just having one dish. It will force you to face reality and wash your one dish in order to use it again, and it will keep you from losing more because it will be empty. However, I've had a small account for 12 years and I kept on wiring money to it. That would be like someone with just one dish, who goes and buy more dishes when they get dirty, but the comparison can only go so far.

Basically, I now understand the process better than ever, but I also remember this was a feeling I've experienced before and yet it did not keep me from blowing out accounts later.

What has made me and will make me take that 5% chance of blowing out my account again is that possibly:
1) the account is small and it doesn't kill me if I blow it out.
2) can't think of other reasons

Could that be it?

Or maybe, due to how I was brought up, I am extremely afraid of failing, and I'd rather take huge risks each time rather than accept a loss, which to me is like a failure to be ashamed of.

Whatever the reason, I know it's still there, hiding somewhere inside my head.

I didn't feel any huge loss as my account gets emptied so maybe I don't care that much and that is the problem. If you don't care, you can't remove the problem from your habits and your ways of thinking. No pain no gain.

But maybe gain can happen without pain. Or maybe not. Maybe discipline is what I need, and I refuse discipline because I've always refused discipline in all areas of my life. But this is not true either.

I always brush my teeth regularly and that is discipline. I take showers, I shave...

Why can't I take losses the way I brush my teeth?

It must have something to do with a faulty reasoning encouraged by the up and down of the markets, whereby you feel that they will bounce sooner or later and do not know exactly when you should cut your loss, because it could always be one minute before they start going your way.

After all, it might have nothing to do with everything I said above. It might simply be that the markets trick your mind, and unless you have some fixed rule that will stop you from being tricked, like Ulysses ordered to be tied to resist the syrens, you will not survive the tricking.

You need to be tied to your stoploss the way Ulysses was tied to the mast. And not let the sailors untie you until you keep on asking so because you're hearing the syrens. But the problem is that when you trade you're both Ulysses and the sailors at once and you can untie yourself, provided that you tied yourself to begin with.
 
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I've been working at the bank since 1997. I am tired of working. I've been trading since 1997. I know the markets well enough to have an edge. What keeps me from putting the two things together and using trading to get me out of working at a bank is my pretension to infallibility.

Why can't I accept that I will be wrong at a time, and wrong enough to wipe out my account unless I admit it?

Why do I have to use a martingale method to make myself right and force the markets to agree with me?

Probably because I've been making myself right in every other area of my life.

When I go to work after taking two days off and tell my boss "if you want, you can fire me". That's a way of forcing others by the double or nothing method. The martingale blackmail method. You either kill me or you let me have my way.

That's the method I apply elsewhere in my life.

When I tell my friends "look, I am lazy, so I won't come out to dinner" and "we either do this, or I am too tired to have it any other way". That's like saying "either my way, or I don't care about losing you as a friend".

And so I tell the markets: either my way, or feel free to wipe out my account. And that's why my capital is below zero now. Because I found the market is not human, and it will not adapt to me.

If the people I relate with were to treat me like the market, I would have no friends, no parents, no job, because I would have been fired long ago. Instead the "double or nothing" martingale blackmail method works more or less where there's humans involved, because you can make them adapt, but the market doesn't give a **** about wiping out your account. It's not going to feel sorry for you, nor care about what you think of him.
 
I will start keeping my money and increasing my account only when I will admit my limits and accept that I can't always be right and can't always make myself right. I have to quit this pretension.
 
After getting my ass kicked so many times by the market, I still have not understood that I can't always predict what it will do. I can predict what it will most likely do, but can't bet everything on it, because sooner or later I will be wrong. And when the martingale method doesn't make me right, it means I was wrong not once, not twice, but wrong several times. It's unlikely that the martingale method will not make you right, but it's not impossible, especially if you have a small account.
 
http://www.trade2win.com/knowledge/articles/general_articles/improve-your-trading-every-day/

Seven Trading Journal Tips
Nearly every successful trader keeps a trading journal. They know it is one of the most powerful things they can do to improve their trading skills and, ultimately, their profitability. Here are seven tips you can use to help make keeping a trading journal a habit with high value and continuous return:


1. Do the numbers. Keep a notebook of your key markets. It's simply not enough just to look at charts. Write down the high, low, close, & volume of the markets you follow and your most important indicators. Not only will this practice help you keep in tune with your market, you will actually be surprised at how quickly you will hone your tape-reading skills.


2. Record all trades. You must do this. It is fundamental to a trading journal and essential to all the potential transformation that flows from it. Just do it!


3. Record your thoughts and feelings on every trade. If you want to understand your trading psychology, this is the authentic pathway. Your relationship with your thoughts and feelings shape behavior. Just as there are tradable patterns in the markets, there are patterns in your thoughts and feelings that prompt you to act and trade in a certain way. Learn these.



4. Identify your strength and limitations. You need to know what you are good at and can rely on, as well as where you reach your current limits. Link your thoughts/feelings/behaviors to each.


5. Develop a plan to overcome your limitations. This is one of the greatest value of your trading journal. Pick one limitation that you want to change and develop a plan to address the thoughts and feelings associated with that limitation. Look to your strengths as guidance in altering what is holding you back. Specify the steps needed to make this a reality tomorrow and into the future.


6. Track your personal performance. Your personal data shows progress and also reveals problematic areas to improve. Track your wins vs. losses and related data (e.g., average win/average loss; wins & losses in an uptrend vs. downtrend vs. trading range, etc.). Do you now see why #2 is so vital to you as a trader?


7. Make journaling a part of your routine. Write your diary at the end of every trading day. Each week, month, quarter and beyond, review your journal to identify areas to work on as well as your progress. Like a runner who can't go a day without a run, you will soon become a trader immersed in the process of self-development and profitability. You are now on the path of the master trader!

Used correctly and consistently, the trading journal serves as your virtual trading coach helping you build not only your technical skills but your mental skills - both skills are vital to your trading success. More information about trading psychology and technical chart reading, as well as how to improve your mental game and technical skills can be found at Trading Psychology Edge.

I think I should keep a journal, here, and a separate trade log, on an excel sheet, with entry, exit and motivations. The journal here is just too big for me to be able to find and review trades as I write them down here. Excel would be much better. This only as far as discretionary trades, because the other trades are all taken care of, as my automated systems have a log (forward testing log).

It took me a few minutes and I created the discretionary trades log. It cannot be too complicated or else i will stop writing my trades on it. It cannot be too easy to keep or else I will not take it seriously. It's ok if it will slow my trading down, as I initially was worried it would: sniper approach is the way to go, and my trading will never be slowed down enough.
 

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  • discretionary_trades_log.xls
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Here's my discretionary world, once again, with the changes marked in red:

HOTKEYS
"B" for "buy 1 at market" with 20 ticks bracket order
"S" for "sell 1 at market" with 20 ticks bracket order
"C" for "close position"
----------------------
CHARTS
SET UP THESE CHARTS ON IB'S TWS:
1 DAY OF 1-minute ES, CL, GBP "line" mode with their 225-period slow moving averages
2 DAYS OF EUR.USD@IDEALPRO 15-minutes CANDLES WITH PIVOTS
4 HOURS OF EUR.USD@IDEALPRO 1-MINUTE CANDLES WITH 15-periods and 210-periods moving averages
----------------------
PRO-TREND DISCRETIONARY SYSTEM with daily change < 200 ticks
RULES
ENTRIES (one contract) can be made if:
1) you haven't lost > 270 dollars for the day
2) time is 15.00 to 20.00 CET
3) daily change < 200 ticks
4) you sense trend (high volume/range, no news wait, touched >= 2 pivot lines, correlated all above/below their mas)
5) your entry and your take profit are > 10 ticks away from any pivot lines or any 0.0100s levels if beyond S2 or R2
6) you're checking "correlated" chart for exact timing of entry
7) the 225-period ma is in favor by > 10 ticks
8) the 15-period ma gets crossed by price (in favor) after being on the other side >= 4 minutes
EXITS
Bracket order of 20 ticks.
Early exit if you feel your move has either failed or exhausted its momentum before reaching takeprofit.
----------------------
COUNTER-TREND DISCRETIONARY SYSTEM with daily change > 200 ticks
RULES
ENTRIES (one contract) can be made if:
1) you haven't lost > 270 dollars for the day
2) time is > 17.30 CET
3) daily change > 200 ticks
4) Price is < S2 or > R2
5) Price crosses above/below fast ma above/below any 0.0100s level that hasn't been violated by more than 10 ticks.
EXITS
Bracket order of 20 ticks.
Early exit if you feel your move has either failed or exhausted its momentum before reaching takeprofit.
----------------------
ANY TRADES OUTSIDE OF THE SYSTEMS ABOVE
Any discretionary trades can be made outside of the system provided that you respect your predetermined maximum loss for that trade and have a stoploss in place (regardless of how wide, even 1000 dollars).
No matter what you do, you cannot add to a losing position, whether automated or discretionary trade.
Any discretionary trade (by any of the systems here) must be recorded on the trades log.
 
The web site I linked above is a good one. Good psycho-babble. Good, good, good. Synthetic and good advice. From Five Things to Avoid While Trading

Trading Psychology: Five Things to Avoid In Trading
What Not To Do

1. Have an opinion. One sure way to find yourself trading against the market is to have a market bias. Trading with an opinion about what the market will do next can limit your ability to see what the market is actually telling you.
2. Have someone else’s opinion. Adopting some market guru’s market bias is actually worse than having your own. Market gurus are notoriously inaccurate in their predictions. Embracing another’s market judgment prevents you from learning to read the market on your own. Besides, it’s doubtful the guru will be calling you to let you know when his or her opinion has changed.
3. Make your opinion public. Putting your bias into a chat room or forum thread makes it public. Making something public gives it a psychological life of its own. It’s hard to back off an opinion once you have announced it to others.
4. Let your ego get involved. Everyone wants to be right. In trading, you have to ask yourself, “Which is more important, being right or making money?”
5. Ride a loser. Still wanting to be right? Having a bias, making it public and getting your ego involved will cause you to hold losers far longer than you should.
 
Merry Xmas travis,
Are you sleeping with that computer (lol) looks like you need to take some time off and relax , the markets will still be available next year. Do yourself a favour mate and enjoy this time with friends and family.
All the best to you in 2010
 
Thanks for the friendly advice, but I work non-stop and maybe that's my problem. But if I'll have to work, at least let me focus on what I think I need to do. I feel that I almost nailed the exact problem.
 
Snap1.jpg

The yellow mark is where I wanted it to get yesterday. Well, if it gets there I might even still make money. It's definitely bouncing. And the when the ZN goes somewhere it just gets there in a straight line. So I think it might get there by tonight.

When the margin will be half I will add the 3 extra contracts I had yesterday, and this might turn out to bring me all the way to 10k, if I stick with it.

ee.jpg

At 14.20 CET, I'll double up the contracts and see this trade to 22.00 CET. If I'll stick with it, I might be able to reach a capital of 10k. I know this is beyond any money management or discipline I've ever written about, but this is a gambling reckless trade, I began it as such, and I have to end it as such. I can't just close at the worst possible time.

So, in 3 and a half hours I'll double up.
 
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ok whatever you say ------ but please note that the more experienced traders on these forums have called it a day and shut down until 2010

PS. Above post ( I wanted it to get yesterday, I might even still make money,I think it might get there by tonight.) get a grip before you crack up with all your hopes
( will not bother you again )
 
Thanks for the reasonable advice.

You said to spend Xmas with my family and friends, and my friends are here. Family, I don't have a family I like. That's why I'll spend my Christmas here.

As far as the markets taking a day off, thanks for the advice, but I hope the markets still will move and I'll recover from my huge loss. After all, that might happen because the ZN doesn't go up in the early months of the year, and so it might go up at the end of December. I didn't check this in detail but it might be the case.
 
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