Mike Baghdady - should I take a course or not?

[pboyles]

I'm a turtle.

Money: live since mid September – yes I was struggling waiting for it, patience has always been a problem for me. If we aren't actually live but being fooled as some suggest than PFG and management are very cunning because it feels real and the statements are real.

Bankruptcy: Mikes shown me documents, I believe his version of events and they fit the observable reality here. I think Mike is going to post the truth at some point, it depends on his being allowed to as court documents are always sensitive, so is personal information.

Thread watching: of course I'm going to keep my eye on what's being said, its my future at stake here too. All of us turtles have given up a lot to undergo this program, in my case I was already trading with a rival company of all things. I've been a member since 2009, I've not had much to say because it was not worth saying.

Office: would you rather the office be decorated with gold wall paper and slaves with feathers fanning you as you walk in the door? The office is functional, we are traders not interior designers and its quite comfortable enough, we have chairs, internet, computers, hell there is even free coffee and tea and occasionally some food – that's a win.

I look around the office as I type this, I see my mates, the turtles here with me. I am using a computer provided by Mike Baghdady, my ass is sitting in a chair provided by Mike Baghdady, the power and heating are paid for by Mike Baghdady and I am trading money provided by Mike Baghdady. I've been here 6 months, I haven't paid for my consumption yet, but I don't cop **** from him because of it, in fact its mostly encouragement. I will be the first to admit that I have occasionally clashed with Mike but its been over minor **** and the only wounds were pride. Yes I've moaned into my beer a few times about it because I have a high level of self esteem and my expectations on how the program should run vs how it is being run are somewhat different: unfortunately the world doesn't always agree with our models of reality. Ego is the enemy of trading, I'm learning to face mine.

I did my research before I applied for the program and I read the same information that's on this post. In the end actions speak louder than words. I was already on a good wicket, trading reasonably well and earning money doing it. When an organization says to you hey, we will teach you our way with our money, come join us, it says a hell of a lot. What I found were people willing to teach me their method, despite me having my own. All they asked of me was to abandon that method and learn theirs, they even provide a small amount for expenses. I have learnt a hell of a lot and its nothing that isn't taught on the courses provided by TT. The only advantage I have compared to a full fare paying client is that I'm trading their money – and that brings its own unique form of pressures. If you haven't done it, try it, its not the utopia you think it is. Other peoples money is sacred.

I guess to sum it up, there is expectation and there is reality. In my personal journey with TT I've found the two don't always agree. When that happens the best thing to do is observe the irrefutable facts. Again I look around me and see all that is provided to me free of charge. Enough said. Of course Mike has asked that say something. I've thought it through for a while and the above is my first and final response. If people on this thread have a beef with Mike that is legitimate, then lawyer up and get it done. That's me finished, I'm going back to doing the best I can with the tools at my disposal. Even if I were not a turtle I can say that on balance my post would not be materially different than this.

"I guess to sum it up, there is expectation and there is reality".

Very true, though the reality was out there from 2010 for anybody that cared to look for it.

 

[wackypete2]

For kicks, I tried to sign up for a free seminar via the website and it says "Our office is re-locating".
Good grief.

Peter

 

[pboyles]

I wonder where he will show up next?

 

[the hare]

I wonder where he will show up next?

We dont know he's gone yet.

Several directors of this company posted here last week assuring people that everything was fine. There's no way any of the turtles would be stupid enough to mislead others knowing the company would be liquidated.

Besides that, the man can make 300% in a single trade, he's a one man, lean, mean, money making machine, there's no way they could have failed.

If the worst came to the worst, they could always buy a copy of the secret nazi box, I believe there's a few left.

 

[Taiwan]

Turtle program is not operating. I am assuming its finished and have moved on.
Realistically guys that's all I can say, all I want to say and sorry but its all I need to say too.

Is this what you call " Losing Face"

 

[jmpower]

Its about doing what is morally right. It has nothing to do with face, if I was concerned about losing it I could have continued to say nothing. Dunce!

 

[pboyles]

This is the Turtles' Neville Chamberlain moment. Only a few short months ago they came down the steps of the TT offices, pieces of paper fluttering in the wind, 'I believe we will be rich in our time' said one, 'of course we can take his word for it' he insisted, 'we have a written agreement'.

But the agreement was broken, the office invaded and crushed under the Bailiff's jackboot, poor Neville was left to ponder how he had ever come to believe him in the first place, what a fool he had been.

 

[the hare]

Its about doing what is morally right.

like posting on a trading forum that everything is fine. what a fine upstanding citizen you are.

hope you got a decent share of the ill gotten gains.

 

[barjon]

like posting on a trading forum that everything is fine. what a fine upstanding citizen you are.

hope you got a decent share of the ill gotten gains.

I think that's a bit below the belt, hare. At least jmp has had the good grace to come here and say sorry and I guess he only posted originally on how he saw it and had been led to believe . He's probably a lot more damaged by it all than ever you and I could be on a trading forum and could do without the famous hare boot as well.

jon

 

[pboyles]

Perhaps he should have said, 'Its about eventually doing what is morally right'. Did he say sorry for misleading us in his earlier posts? I doubt any of the Turtles will see any benefit from their involvement with Baghdady, quite the opposite in fact, it has cost them dearly.

The jury is still out on the sympathy issue, remember they were warned in advance and still went ahead with it.

 

[Digbyarbuthnot]

I think that's a bit below the belt, hare. At least jmp has had the good grace to come here and say sorry and I guess he only posted originally on how he saw it and had been led to believe . He's probably a lot more damaged by it all than ever you and I could be on a trading forum and could do without the famous hare boot as well.

jon

I agree. The Turtles were also scammed by Baghdady & Ben Tuckey. I'm sure they were doing nothing more than toeing the party line, which is understandable when you're working in the office, showing some loyalty and unaware of all the facts.

Putting the boot in now is nothing more than senseless bullying as these people gave up a lot to become Turtles (regardless of warnings). They were sold a false dream, thinking it could be the opportunity of a lifetime.

It is time for sympathy, NOT maliciousness. Show some compassion as there is no need to be snide to people who have been scammed. Some have demanded the turtles come on here and, when one finally does, the hare boot comes flying in. Not the done thing in my book.

Peace & love brothers (and sisters).

 

[barjon]

Perhaps he should have said, 'Its about eventually doing what is morally right'. Did he say sorry for misleading us in his earlier posts? I doubt any of the Turtles will see any benefit from their involvement with Baghdady, quite the opposite in fact, it has cost them dearly.

The jury is still out on the sympathy issue, remember they were warned in advance and still went ahead with it.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fir...-should-i-take-course-not-84.html#post1810784

 

[The Leopard]

Is this what you call " Losing Face"

Its about doing what is morally right. It has nothing to do with face, if I was concerned about losing it I could have continued to say nothing. Dunce!

like posting on a trading forum that everything is fine. what a fine upstanding citizen you are.

hope you got a decent share of the ill gotten gains.

Let's be fair to this JM Power guy. He did at least come on and admit it's all over. He didn't just sneak off without saying anything, which is what most of them will do.

At least he had the guts to come on and confirm the closure rumours, and for that he deserves credit.

 

[the hare]

I think that's a bit below the belt, hare. At least jmp has had the good grace to come here and say sorry and I guess he only posted originally on how he saw it and had been led to believe . He's probably a lot more damaged by it all than ever you and I could be on a trading forum and could do without the famous hare boot as well.

JMP is a director of the company. He's not an innocent bystander. He's equally as responsible for this situation as any of the other directors, including Mr Baghdaddy.

He, and others have been posting on a public trading forum, trying to convince people that things are fine. He's well aware of the companies finances, and he's well aware of the performance of the group.

There's no "as he saw it" about it, he was in possession of the cold hard facts when those posts where made, or if he wasnt, then he's completely irresponsible, he shares fiduciary responsibility with his co directors.

Training Traders are in the business of charging for training, and they used the turtle program to promote that service. Several of the turtles quite happily went along with that.

Mr Baghdaddy has made the most outrageous claims in recent webinars regarding the returns that he has personally made, and not one single turtle has contradicted those claims. In fact, they've substantiated the most ridiculous of claims, and in doing so, made themselves and their co directors a public laughing stock.

If there is any truth in the rumour that the company is in liquidation then the behaviour of several of the turtles has been motivated purely by greed. They'll walk away from this unscathed, but a few of these people need to take a long hard look in the mirror and reflect on their part in the deception, and make no mistake, thats all this ever was, a deception.

There is absolutely no way that the directors of this company where unaware of the situation. These people where not mug punters dumb enough to hand over 5K for training, the turtles where directors, and directly involved in the business.

Perhaps my comment about them taking a cut of the ill gotten gains was unfair, and uncalled for, but I find it very difficult to believe that they didnt derive some sort of benefit from their willingness to support the training traders business.

Maybe they've all gone for a day out at the park, how can a trader with the returns claimed by Mr Baghdaddy possibly fail.... thats right, they cant. So someone isnt telling the truth.

I will give credit to JMP for at least having the integrity to post, and I do empathise with the situation.

 

[pboyles]

I agree. The Turtles were also scammed by Baghdady & Ben Tuckey. I'm sure they were doing nothing more than toeing the party line, which is understandable when you're working in the office, showing some loyalty and unaware of all the facts.

Putting the boot in now is nothing more than senseless bullying as these people gave up a lot to become Turtles (regardless of warnings). They were sold a false dream, thinking it could be the opportunity of a lifetime.

It is time for sympathy, NOT maliciousness. Show some compassion as there is no need to be snide to people who have been scammed. Some have demanded the turtles come on here and, when one finally does, the hare boot comes flying in. Not the done thing in my book.

Peace & love brothers (and sisters).

I mostly agree. However I suffered quite a bit of senseless, malicious bullying from some of the Turtles when I tried to warn them that they were getting themselves into this big mess. Not that it worried me of course, but some may say that perhaps they're fair game for a bit of stick. Personally I regard them as victims, ungrateful perhaps, but victims still the same.

 

[The Leopard]

"I guess to sum it up, there is expectation and there is reality".

Very true, though the reality was out there from 2010 for anybody that cared to look for it.

You're totally wrong there, I'm afraid. It was NOT out there from 2010.

It was out there long before - it has always been out there. The moment someone offers to sell you training / education / software / systems etc that will mean you can make a lot of money trading you know you are about to get done.

Trading vendors do what they do for one reason and one reason only. It is not because they are able to make money trading and simply wish to pass their expertise on.

People really need to wake up and engage their brains a little (and it does only take a little thought).

 

[pboyles]

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fir...-should-i-take-course-not-84.html#post1810784

Barjon,

That is not an apology.

 

[the hare]

some may say that perhaps they're fair game for a bit of stick. Personally I regard them as victims, ungrateful perhaps, but victims still the same.

Its clear to me that the majority of the turtles are victims to a greater or lesser degree, and I dont think they deserve "stick", there involvement is a matter of public record that will remain with them for life. They should be allowed to get on with sorting out this mess in peace, and moving on to do something more constructive, and I wish them well. You cant make an omellette without breaking a few eggs, and sometimes you have to take a chace and hope things turn out for the best. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they dont.

However, there is a small minority who decided to support Mr Baghdaddy to the bitter end, and as I've pointed out earlier, they did so in the full knowledge that they where decieving others. That makes them as equally guilty as Mr Baghdaddy, and that does make them fair game.

 

[pipsplease]

JMP is a director of the company. He's not an innocent bystander. He's equally as responsible for this situation as any of the other directors, including Mr Baghdaddy.

He, and others have been posting on a public trading forum, trying to convince people that things are fine. He's well aware of the companies finances, and he's well aware of the performance of the group.

There's no "as he saw it" about it, he was in possession of the cold hard facts when those posts where made, or if he wasnt, then he's completely irresponsible, he shares fiduciary responsibility with his co directors.

Training Traders are in the business of charging for training, and they used the turtle program to promote that service. Several of the turtles quite happily went along with that.

Mr Baghdaddy has made the most outrageous claims in recent webinars regarding the returns that he has personally made, and not one single turtle has contradicted those claims. In fact, they've substantiated the most ridiculous of claims, and in doing so, made themselves and their co directors a public laughing stock.

If there is any truth in the rumour that the company is in liquidation then the behaviour of several of the turtles has been motivated purely by greed. They'll walk away from this unscathed, but a few of these people need to take a long hard look in the mirror and reflect on their part in the deception, and make no mistake, thats all this ever was, a deception.

There is absolutely no way that the directors of this company where unaware of the situation. These people where not mug punters dumb enough to hand over 5K for training, the turtles where directors, and directly involved in the business.

Perhaps my comment about them taking a cut of the ill gotten gains was unfair, and uncalled for, but I find it very difficult to believe that they didnt derive some sort of benefit from their willingness to support the training traders business.

Maybe they've all gone for a day out at the park, how can a trader with the returns claimed by Mr Baghdaddy possibly fail.... thats right, they cant. So someone isnt telling the truth.

I will give credit to JMP for at least having the integrity to post, and I do empathise with the situation.

For the sake of some clarity.
The turtles are not and never were directors of Training Traders, Spyglass. MBTWP or any other of Baghdadys multiple set-ups. They were simply minority partners in an LLP controlled by Baghdady and Tuckey through Training Traders and MBTWP.
They had nothing to do with the running of Training Traders and wer certainly not in any position to have any knowledge of its finances and behaviour with creditors.

They were intentionally separated from everything else and only operated within the scope of the turtles scheme.

Of course, when things got a little frantic and heated towards the end, some were in denial about what was happening and even got involved in posting and answering the phones. I don't think this was in any way malicious but just a reflection of the horrible situation created within the offices of Training Traders.

They are now taking measures to get themselves out of the legal entity that was the LLP. Maybe give them some time and we may hear more in due course.

Well done to J poweres for coming forward. On looking over his posts I don't think he really batted for Baghdady.

 

[The Leopard]

For the sake of some clarity.
The turtles are not and never were directors of Training Traders, Spyglass. MBTWP or any other of Baghdadys multiple set-ups. They were simply minority partners in an LLP controlled by Baghdady and Tuckey through Training Traders and MBTWP.
They had nothing to do with the running of Training Traders and wer certainly not in any position to have any knowledge of its finances and behaviour with creditors.

They were intentionally separated from everything else and only operated within the scope of the turtles scheme.

Of course, when things got a little frantic and heated towards the end, some were in denial about what was happening and even got involved in posting and answering the phones. I don't think this was in any way malicious but just a reflection of the horrible situation created within the offices of Training Traders.

They are now taking measures to get themselves out of the legal entity that was the LLP. Maybe give them some time and we may hear more in due course.

Well done to J poweres for coming forward. On looking over his posts I don't think he really batted for Baghdady.

You seem to know a great deal about this whole episode and have a lot of inside knowledge. Are you an ex-employee, turtle, friend of turtle or something like that?

Obviously I understand if you don't wish to say.