Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

[new_trader]

I'm sure the vested interests will disagree...the cretins want inflation! I bet one cretin, who said he put me on ignore, is reading my post right now.

Housing: home help | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian

The housing bubble is at the heart of Britain's economic crisis. For one happy generation, rapid house-price inflation fuelled by ready money and a shrinking supply was a guarantee of previously unimagined riches. By the peak of the boom in 2007, 75% of us owned our own homes. For the lucky ones who got in early it was an investment that doubled in value and delivered a promise of lifelong security. No government will lightly wake the voters from such a dream, and on the evidence of Monday's housing strategy, the coalition is determined to persist in the deceit that we can return to the heady days of a decade ago.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

NT do you not have any comment on the opinion offered by PIMCO in the links I posted?

 

[new_trader]

No, do you?

 

[scose-no-doubt]

I think there is a lot of substance to what they're saying and that it's given me quite an insight into the type of viewpoint we really just don't see too often. Bigger picture stuff.

I thought you might have found it interesting as some of it better articulates the views of other participants in the thread and as the subtext largely contradicts your rhetoric.
With PIMCO arguably being at the forefront of inflation and Bill Gross putting out of lot of Government bashing policy narrative in the past year or so, I thought you might find their logic interesting given they seem to have changed their tune a bit.

I just though maybe you'd like to discuss something someone else posted rather than you posting loads of things and people having to respond to some of the tripe. Breathe a bit of life into the thread I thought. Obviously didn't go down too well lol.

 

[new_trader]

I think there is a lot of substance to what they're saying and that it's given me quite an insight into the type of viewpoint we really just don't see too often. Bigger picture stuff.

I thought you might have found it interesting as some of it better articulates the views of other participants in the thread and as the subtext largely contradicts your rhetoric.
With PIMCO arguably being at the forefront of inflation and Bill Gross putting out of lot of Government bashing policy narrative in the past year or so, I thought you might find their logic interesting given they seem to have changed their tune a bit.

I just though maybe you'd like to discuss something someone else posted rather than you posting loads of things and people having to respond to some of the tripe. Breathe a bit of life into the thread I thought. Obviously didn't go down too well lol.

I'd say the majority of mainstream opinions contradict my rhetoric. I suppose it is just a matter of investing your own money according to how you think things will pan out.

 

[new_trader]

There is a feature under 'Thread tools' called "Unsubscribe from this Thread." Everyone is welcome to use it.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

I'd say the majority of mainstream opinions contradict my rhetoric. I suppose it is just a matter of investing your own money according to how you think things will pan out.

True dat.

I went to a thingy with Ben Broadbent a few weeks ago and a lot of what he said about rates surprised me. Not only about the way the BOE view the whole financial landscape but also the things that they believe that interest rates can be used as a tool for control and even about how they view broad inflationary pressures. I was very cynical at first (as I'm sure you would be lol) but the more I've mulled it over/been brainwashed, the more it's starting to make sense. You ask the right people thne right questions and you'll find the strategy isn't just simple out and out currency debasement.

 

[Atilla]

All capitalists step forward and explain this phenomena...

Shareholders are mugs to keep paying executive bonuses!

"Company performance bears little or no relation to how much a director gets in salary or bonus."

The whole system needs to be shaken up and simplified.



People finally seem to be waking up to the BS served upon us.

To all you other wet farts out there who claim the 99% don't know what they are talking about shove this up on youtube...

Big corporations also bribe politicians so I'd reckon we have an uphill strugle.


What the country needs is some real honest heros who have the interest of the country at heart and not lining their pockets. These people can come from all backgrounds rich or poor. Only requirement for the post is a honest heart and a serene conscience.


I pretty much reckon all those people camping out in the cold and wet echo the sentiments in this article. Bless them all...

 

[new_trader]

The cretin keeps asking capitalists for solutions to problems that the free market will resolve. I don't tell YOU how to invest YOUR money and I don't want YOU to tell me how I must invest mine. What is so difficult for the cretin to understand? I don't impose my morals or ethics on anyone, which is a concept the anti-capitalists don't understand. If investors don't think they are being treated fairly by a company they can simply sell their shares. Companies don't force anyone to invest with them. The only people who can take your money by force are Governments and the anti-capitalists want to give them more power...cretins.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

who wants to give governments more power?

anyway rather than people not expecting the free markets to "sort everything out" the problem is massive adjustment in quality of life that the bulk of the population would have to suffer for that to happen - if it even did - while the people who cause the problems and the rest of the cartelish lot will remain relatively unscathed due to the wealth they've accumulated throughout the foregone corruption. I think that is what bothers people, not capitalism.
In respect to not being happy with directors pay etc and being able to sell your shares and buy elsewhere - what can you buy into? The problem is systemic rot. you have a corrupt and overpaid bunch of top flight staff that add zero value at the top of most companies that steal your dividends and capital growth through greed and incompetence on side and fiscal policy eroding your cash on the other. And to top it off they're all in cahoots. Brilliant stuff lol.

If you wan't a story for the failure of "free markets" why not take a peek at the railways who couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery despite receiving public money AND putting up prices. What about the non-existant efficiency benefits that came from selling off the utilities? Do me a favour with that one.

 

[darktone]

The only people who can take your money by force are Governments

I dont agree!. Banks are the ones who can truly take our money / assets and they dont need to use force. A stroke of a pen, entry on a computer are all thats needed. Governments confiscate our money on behalf of the banks!
Public needs to be educated, governments need to shrink / be accountable, banks need to be put in their proper sphere!

 

[new_trader]

I dont agree!. Banks are the ones who can truly take our money / assets and they dont need to use force. A stroke of a pen, entry on a computer are all thats needed. Governments confiscate our money on behalf of the banks!
Public needs to be educated, governments need to shrink / be accountable, banks need to be put in their proper sphere!

Banks and Governments are basically in bed together. That is Fascism. I didn't want any bank to be bailed out, yet the cretin keeps referring to it as capitalism

It would be good if the cretin completely unsubscribed from this thread rather than just put me on ignore.

 

[new_trader]

who wants to give governments more power?

.

The self righteous anti-capitalist busybodies. I don't know what the CEO of my company earns and I don't care. It wouldn't matter to me if he earned 100 times my salary or 10,000 times my salary. The reason I don't care is that I am happy where I work and I am well rewarded for my labour, isn't that MY choice to make?

It is the anti-capitalist busybodies that are driven insane by the obscene salaries of others and feel it is their moral duty not only to confiscate that wealth and/or 'cap' their salary, they think they can make those choices on behalf of others. Who do they propose should be responsible for this wealth redistribution if not the government?

It's ironic that the cretin, who thought the bank bailouts were a good idea now has a bee up his ar5e over the bonuses and salaries being paid the CEO's

 

[scose-no-doubt]

It's nothing to do with ani-capitalism at all it's about ending the cronyism. The market doesn't set top salaries. Remuneration committees filled with NED friends^nth set pay levels and what shareholders can complain? Oh yes the institutional shareholders... wonder if they're in on it.
Yet the institutional shareholder are managing on behalf of the public pension pots hahaha
It's all a big joke really.
The problem and imho what people are upset with is how these companies abuse the system, squeeze the upside as much as they can and accept zero downside. It's an attack or a critique of the establishment as it stands rather than on capitalism itself. It's big morally reprehensible business and daft government/MPs that people don't like not rich people. Problem is that those parties are usually one and the same.

Look at this whole school milk ting that been in the news recently. Government being effectively charged £1 per pint! Enterprising individual set that up? Don't think so. Sounds very brown envelope to me.

 

[new_trader]

It's nothing to do with ani-capitalism at all it's about ending the cronyism. The market doesn't set top salaries. Remuneration committees filled with NED friends^nth set pay levels and what shareholders can complain? Oh yes the institutional shareholders... wonder if they're in on it.
Yet the institutional shareholder are managing on behalf of the public pension pots hahaha
It's all a big joke really.
The problem and imho what people are upset with is how these companies abuse the system, squeeze the upside as much as they can and accept zero downside. It's an attack or a critique of the establishment as it stands rather than on capitalism itself. It's big morally reprehensible business and daft government/MPs that people don't like not rich people. Problem is that those parties are usually one and the same.

Look at this whole school milk ting that been in the news recently. Government being effectively charged £1 per pint! Enterprising individual set that up? Don't think so. Sounds very brown envelope to me.

I have said that what we have is crony capitalism, fascism, whateverism but definitely not capitalism. The CRETIN keeps calling what we have capitalism.

 

[Atilla]

It's nothing to do with anti-capitalism at all it's about ending the cronyism. The market doesn't set top salaries. Remuneration committees filled with NED friends^nth set pay levels and what shareholders can complain? Oh yes the institutional shareholders... wonder if they're in on it.
Yet the institutional shareholder are managing on behalf of the public pension pots hahaha
It's all a big joke really.
The problem and imho what people are upset with is how these companies abuse the system, squeeze the upside as much as they can and accept zero downside. It's an attack or a critique of the establishment as it stands rather than on capitalism itself. It's big morally reprehensible business and daft government/MPs that people don't like not rich people. Problem is that those parties are usually one and the same.
Look at this whole school milk ting that been in the news recently. Government being effectively charged £1 per pint! Enterprising individual set that up? Don't think so. Sounds very brown envelope to me.

This is precisely the arguement.

Which is why we need controls, checks and balances to maintain pure capitalism on its right tracks.

Otherwise we leviate to the Polit bureau where salaries are set by bodies and committees behind closed doors with lots of brown envelopes and secret handshakes rather than the market.

Top post

 

[scose-no-doubt]

This is precisely the arguement.

Which is why we need controls, checks and balances to maintain pure capitalism on its right tracks.

Otherwise we leviate to the Polit bureau where salaries are set by bodies and committees behind closed doors with lots of brown envelopes and secret handshakes rather than the market.

Top post

I think it was martinghoul who said that to make our system work we have no real viable alternative to capitalism. And this is as good as it gets in practice lol.

I just work on the premise that "everyone is a bast*rd".

How to price a bond? The "bast*rds" think of everything and discount it!
How to price a oil? The "bast*rds" think of all carry and discount it!
How much do I have to pay for bread? The "bast*rds" are gonna rip me off!

That's my model for the real world. Everyone is a bast*ard cnut.

 

[new_trader]

Martinghoul also thinks that a Central Bank having control of the money supply is a massive advantage...just look how things are turning out.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

 

[Atilla]

I think it was martinghoul who said that to make our system work we have no real viable alternative to capitalism. And this is as good as it gets in practice lol.

I just work on the premise that "everyone is a bast*rd".

How to price a bond? The "bast*rds" think of everything and discount it!
How to price a oil? The "bast*rds" think of all carry and discount it!
How much do I have to pay for bread? The "bast*rds" are gonna rip me off!

That's my model for the real world. Everyone is a bast*ard cnut.

I think out of all this crises a lot of thinking and deep soul searching will come out as to why we do what we do and where is the final destination?

3 day working solution sounds like a good idea right now?

This capitalism of work work and more work is a load of bollox to consume **** I don't need.

I predict the whole system of capitalism will be renewed and social order will be re-thought out. The advanced capitalist nations will move one to some new paradigm which the LDCs may leap frog us into who knows???

We are definitely on the cusp of a new era. People who cling onto what they know will become extinct if they do not change. Can't wait for oil to run out.

We've come along way from the late 19th century. I'd love to see the end of this one if I can...

We need some creative thinking here...


This reminds me of a joke.

Two comrades walking and one says to the other - our revolution will not end until we have hung all the capitalist pigs in the world.

The other replies - yes but there isn't enough rope in the world to hang all the capitalists.

The thinking comrade responds - don't worry, their greed will drive them to manufacture the quantities we will need to finish the capitalists off.


I thought this was a sick joke when first heard it but at the middle of a century I realise there is an element of truth in those lines.