Best Thread Keynes Vs. Hayek

VendorExterminator said:
Don't you think it's a bit ironic New Trader, that you've got Greenspan in your signature collection extolling the virtues of gold, when he was the worst culprit of currency debasement leading up to the mess we're in now!? Bernanke learnt everything he knew from A.G!
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No, I don’t think it is ironic because it doesn’t invalidate what he wrote about the gold standard and he wasn’t responsible for taking the USA off it. He wrote the essay in 1966 which was 5 years before President Nixon closed the gold window and more than 20 years before he became Chairman of the Federal Reserve. It makes Alan Greenspan a hypocrite but deep down I am sure he knows what is what and it probably haunts him.
 
The Finsbury Square anti-capitalist camp is across the road from my work and I regularly spend my lunch break talking with them.

I have given up on hearing anything enlightening from them and now just go for the entertainment value.
 
darktone said:
So what would you consider 'enlightening'?
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Cut taxes
Cut social security benefits
Cut interest rates
Increase bonus payments
Increase salaries
Reduce traffic
Subsidise oil
Cut taxes on drink and tabaco
Reduce VAT too
Anybody who is unemployed send them to Siberia, China, India or Australia even...
Declare war on all countries who have oil and implement UK friendly regime change so they become more democratic like us

I think that should just about do the trick... :cool:
 
Atilla said:
Cut taxes
Cut social security benefits
Cut interest rates
Increase bonus payments
Increase salaries
Reduce traffic
Subsidise oil
Cut taxes on drink and tabaco
Reduce VAT too
Anybody who is unemployed send them to Siberia, China, India or Australia even...
Declare war on all countries who have oil and implement UK friendly regime change so they become more democratic like us

I think that should just about do the trick... :cool:
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lol, common im being serious! All i see in the media is the "anti capitalist" label. When i went up to st pauls for a chat everyone had a different view, mostly concentrated on the symptoms
 
darktone said:
lol, common im being serious! All i see in the media is the "anti capitalist" label. When i went up to st pauls for a chat everyone had a different view, mostly concentrated on the symptoms
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I spoke to them to and if I didn't have a family to support I'd join them and lead them to victory.

Same as in NY people have a major significant point and pretty much most perspectives are valid but people forget our elected parties spend literally millions on civil servants and PR consultants to tick all the i's and t's so a single party vetted message goes out. They have literally 00s if not 000s working for them.

Here you have the conscience of the people represented by similar minds coming together dressed like tramps.

They lack a single unified message and presentation. However, they have wide support including my own. If they got money together and put up a leader the parties will take note and if they get some MPs elected then see what falls out of the tree with respect to Tory and Liberals...

Asking traders, bankers and financiers to comment on the great big heist - ranking their point of view as enlightened representation of our crises is like asking drugie hooked on drugs to watch over ones stash.

We need these people with extra ordinary skills to get us out of this mess more than ever and that is why we must pay likes of RBS £999m in bonuses for making a loss - courtesy of the tax payer.

Cameron can't be arsed to deal with it cause his too busy running the country. You know like 1bn is too insignificant for him to spare time over.

Someones having an enlightened laf aren't they...

Let's ask where Fred the Shred thinks he went wrong and put him in charge of running UK banking... Surely, we can't lose a well skilled talent like that going to work in another country...


What's your take on it?


Could do with a bit of a laf :)
 
I think debt based money is at the heart of our current problems, more so being controlled in quantity by banks.
Financial fraud.
Pollys are bought and paid for, follow the vote rather than long term common sense.
Goverment is too big as is the public sector.
Low incentive for private business.
Public thats ignorant toward (money / material / world ) lol

I dunno
 
darktone said:
I think debt based money is at the heart of our current problems, more so being controlled in quantity by banks.
Financial fraud.
Pollys are bought and paid for, follow the vote rather than long term common sense.
Goverment is too big as is the public sector.
Low incentive for private business.
Public thats ignorant toward (money / material / world ) lol

I dunno
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Pretty much in agreement there.

Listening to the radio 4 today - I heard it mentioned again that reason why we had the banking crises is because Government tried to manipulate the markets.
So if we really had totally free markets this wouldn't have happened.

Also, one banking expert said applying new government regulations to control risk would mean higher costs. Upon clarification - if banks are required to hold higher reserve assets to counter risk overexposure - it will cost them money because it will reduce their profitability. I was thinking did I get this wrong?

Why have 8% reserve ratio? May as well have 1% reserve ratio and maximise profits on risky lending even more. Damn regulators don't understand perfect competition, capitalism and free markets do they??? :cheesy:


Re: needing to laf - nothing personal just poor humour on my behalf. Difficult to take anything seriously these days. Way of dealing with the gravity of it all...

You should try and handle stressful situations like a dog? Pee on it and walk away! (y)
 
darktone said:
So what would you consider 'enlightening'?
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Anything I havn't heard before which vaguely resembles a sensible solution to the problems we are experiencing.

Apparently we should all be growing our own food and everybody in the world should be earning the same wage. I consider myself of average intelligence and have a basic grasp of economics but even so I find myself talking circles round them.
 
And while you are right that many of them have quite divergent ideologies and views, there is a core of usual suspects who I see there day in and day out (probably the ones who actually sleep there) who will start out quite sensibly talking about addressing the banks and inequality but it doesn't take long for the Marxist and Venus Project talk to surface.

Lessons on the economy of Cuba anyone at our university? The only thing I need to know about the economy of Cuba is which way direction the makeshift rafts are floating.
 
China Diapers said:
Anything I havn't heard before which vaguely resembles a sensible solution to the problems we are experiencing.

Apparently we should all be growing our own food and everybody in the world should be earning the same wage. I consider myself of average intelligence and have a basic grasp of economics but even so I find myself talking circles round them.
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Capitalism is the solution. It isn't surprising that you can talk circles around them, just watching this video and is clear to me who the ill-informed ignorant people are and who the intelligent, informed and reasonable people are.


Peter Schiff Speaks for 1 Percent at Occupy Wall Street - YouTube


"I'm doing my share why aren't you doing yours?" - BRILLIANT! :clap:

Peter Schiff nails Wall Street Protesters - YouTube
 
China Diapers said:
Anything I havn't heard before which vaguely resembles a sensible solution to the problems we are experiencing.

Apparently we should all be growing our own food and everybody in the world should be earning the same wage. I consider myself of average intelligence and have a basic grasp of economics but even so I find myself talking circles round them.
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They are trying to make a point and it seems to me you dwelling on the ridiculous as per your perception.

I will try and elaborate on the two suggestions above.



Point 1. Most countries know and recognise whilst international trade is based on concentrating on the factors of production they have an advantage over, having independence on some structural industries is of strategic importance.

Agriculture and food subsistance is one of them. As an Island we import a lot of our food - which is why it is so expensive and people don't eat much fruit and lack nourishment - instead chomping on 'capitalist' bred junk food which manipulated fatty compounds that your bowels can't digest properly.

There are many people of all types assuming they have land who keep chickens and livestock as well as having beehives in their back yard. In Holland very small households keep livestock like cows and chickens.

I've put 'capitalist' in quotes because they justify selling any ol **** to you guised as your choice. Because the quality of McDonalds food is so **** poor in nourishment they add salt, mustard and ketchup to give it flavour. You could eat soggy cardboard with some ingredients and get the same flavour.

Have an open mind and reflect on what these people are trying to say to you would be my advice. Don't be ready to laugh it off too hastilly. :rolleyes:



Point 2. No body is saying a delivery van driver should be getting the same as a CEO. However, CEO's bonus and salaries should not be 000s of times higher than the lowest paid employee who is first in the bank sweeping and cleaning and running the post room.

Key point here is some very highly paid so called smarter than average people have made big ****-ups with risk and rewards and still get paid for losses. 'Capitalism' maximises profits for shareholders right? - not managment! Shouldn't someone somewhere say hold on a second? How many bankers have been sacked? One retired on health grounds.

If a delivery van messes up two or three jobs once in a while he'll be marked as poor - given less than or no increase and be told his mistake cost the company £200 and no doubt may end up losing his work.


Also - not talking about global salaries here. Just the financial industry which messed up along with lack of regulators and governments.
 
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