Is stop loss hunting avoidance worth it?

[darktone]

Or another way of looking at things

Its a stop order Norm.
Cos as has been said earlier, to be a good trader, we need to lose some money. Best way I know how to do that is use an order thats aimed at loss. Just hang that stop order out there and see if the market will give you what you want. The market always gives us all what we 'really' want Norm, Ed Seykota said so.
But what if prices move into profitable territory I hear you cry. Dont worry, we can use the stop order to aim at less win too. Bought 30 an the market moves to 60!? no worries, just like the car example we can ignore the deal at 60 or better and aim at 45 or less, with a stop order. :smart:

 

[jiggly]

Thanks. Definitely worth thinking about.

Norm

I think so too.

You don't want to be trading with the herd but against them.

You want to be buying when they are selling and selling when they are buying.

You should be picking off their stop losses so you can profit and not trying to hide behind them by a few paces. This just puts you at the wrong end of the firing range.

 

[options-george]

hi everyone,
apologies I have not read through 8 pages of this thread, but yesterday came across an article that seems to be relevant to the thread's title (came across the article on my twitter feed).

I'll quickly share as it might provide fresh thought/perspective on the topic.

http://www.tradersimon.com/2016/12/is-your-broker-hunting-your-stoploss/

 

[tar]

Darktone examples are based on hindsight and we all know hindsight is 20/20 . Lets give a real live example for trading cars :

Trader X bought a car at 20K waiting to sell it at a profit , however the market price is diving 19K 18K didnt sell yet , 17K 16K and finally sold at 15K .

Yes in hindsight thats sound stupid he should have sold at 19K , even better he shouldn't have bought the car at 20k in the first place , but no one can trade in hindsight , current market price is 15K , and the future is unknown , price may reverse back to 20K or keep plummeting . Same when he first bought the car the market value was 20K and the future was unknown .

I repeat car value may reverse to 18K but no one knows , the market can do anything and car value may keep plummeting to 10K and never reverse . Criticizing the car trader after the event doesnt sound right .

 

[tar]

Anyone can give examples in hindsight to back up their own arguments , here is one :

Long spot Euro at 1.3285 and SL at 1.3211 , did price reverse after that ? Where is the Euro right now ?

 

[seekingTruth16]

Darktone examples are based on hindsight and we all know hindsight is 20/20 . Lets give a real live example for trading cars :

Trader X bought a car at 20K waiting to sell it at a profit , however the market price is diving 19K 18K didnt sell yet , 17K 16K and finally sold at 15K .

Yes in hindsight thats sound stupid he should have sold at 19K , even better he shouldn't have bought the car at 20k in the first place , but no one can trade in hindsight , current market price is 15K , and the future is unknown , price may reverse back to 20K or keep plummeting . Same when he first bought the car the market value was 20K and the future was unknown .

I repeat car value may reverse to 18K but no one knows , the market can do anything and car value may keep plummeting to 10K and never reverse . Criticizing the car trader after the event doesnt sound right .

True, but when you say nobody knows, isn't it your job as a trader to have a better than 50-50 idea what's going to happen next. Is it really wise to gamble on things when 'nobody knows'?

 

[dbphoenix]

I think so too.

You don't want to be trading with the herd but against them.

You want to be buying when they are selling and selling when they are buying.

You should be picking off their stop losses so you can profit and not trying to hide behind them by a few paces. This just puts you at the wrong end of the firing range.

This is a great way to go broke if not implemented correctly. The herd is always right, except at turning points. You therefore want to be trading with them, not against them. Otherwise you are perpetually shorting higher highs and buying lower lows. Until you run out of money.

Learn to detect turning points. Then trade with the flow until you see them.

 

[tar]

True, but when you say nobody knows, isn't it your job as a trader to have a pretty good idea what's going to happen next. Is it really wise to gamble on things when 'nobody knows'?

Yes as a trader you should place your trades based on some merit and research ... etc , but at the end the future is unknown unless you are an insider dealer .

 

[jiggly]

This is a great way to go broke if not implemented correctly. The herd is always right, except at turning points. You therefore want to be trading with them, not against them. Otherwise you are perpetually shorting higher highs and buying lower lows. Until you run out of money.

Learn to detect turning points. Then trade with the flow until you see them.

I thought the herd is mostly wrong most of the time. This is why they usually end up blowing their accounts several times over and then quit.

 

[ffsear]

Upwards of 90% of retail traders lose money trading Forex, which means upwards of 90% of institutional traders are making money.

Sorry but that makes ZERO sense! ZERO!!

 

[Unique Forex]

Sorry but that makes ZERO sense! ZERO!!

You must not know how a market works then.

 

[dbphoenix]

I thought the herd is mostly wrong most of the time. This is why they usually end up blowing their accounts several times over and then quit.

The most common reason traders blow their accounts is the lack of a thoroughly-tested trading plan, if they have any trading plan at all. But there are also lack of discipline, lack of patience, under-capitalization, ignorance, and so forth. But when it comes to the herd, they'd be far more likely to succeed if they were to follow it AND know when to separate themselves from it than to waste their time fighting the trend.

Not following the herd should not be confused with contrarian investing. They are very much not the same thing. Those who want to pursue this should consult The Art of Contrarian Investing. It may be available as a pdf somewhere.

 

[ffsear]

You must not know how a market works then.

Well i know institutions trade with each other more then they do retail traders, which only make up about 5% of the Forex market. How are the retail traders paying the institutions their 90% ? There is no correlation between retail losses and gains made by the big banks, hedge funds etc..

Are you confusing "institutions" with Forex brokers and spread betting firms?

 

[darktone]

Darktone examples are based on hindsight and we all know hindsight is 20/20 . Lets give a real live example for trading cars :

Trader X bought a car at 20K waiting to sell it at a profit , however the market price is diving 19K 18K didnt sell yet , 17K 16K and finally sold at 15K .

Yes in hindsight thats sound stupid he should have sold at 19K , even better he shouldn't have bought the car at 20k in the first place , but no one can trade in hindsight , current market price is 15K , and the future is unknown , price may reverse back to 20K or keep plummeting . Same when he first bought the car the market value was 20K and the future was unknown .

I repeat car value may reverse to 18K but no one knows , the market can do anything and car value may keep plummeting to 10K and never reverse . Criticizing the car trader after the event doesnt sound right .

Was his name? nero??

I got a better one for you:

Dealer X bought the car at 20K hoping to sell at his marked price o 25K.
Idjiot Dealer walks in and says "thats nice, i give you 17K fo it".
"Fark off, i paid 20K you scumbag, im looking for 25K" says Dealer X
"Ok, if you get stuck I give you 18 fo it" says Idjiot

In walks the first customer
"Oooo just what if been looking for, but i think its worth 23K"
"Sorry, the price is 25K, no deal" says Dealer "

And so it goes on with the customers offers.
24K - 20K - 23K - 21K - 19K - 22K - 19K - 21K - 17K - 19K

Dealer X has been sitting on this car a while and the phones gone quiet, starting to sweat a bit cos its christmas and his son wants the yada yada with the kungfu grip.

He phones Idjiot Dealer.

"Hey bud, you know that car you said you liked 6 months ago" says Dealer X

"The pink one with the furry gear lever?" says Idjiot

"Yep, its yours for 18K mate" says Dealer X

"I give yo 15K fo it" says Idjiot "Things are o bit slippy round here atm" :cheesy:

Dealer X sells for 15K and pats himself on the back for doing a good job :smart:

 

[dbphoenix]

Yellow dresses.

 

[darktone]

Anyone can give examples in hindsight to back up their own arguments , here is one :

Long spot Euro at 1.3285 and SL at 1.3211 , did price reverse after that ? Where is the Euro right now ?

Lets put on the old blinkers and have a look at that chart.

Ahh now i get you

 

[darktone]

lets have a zoom up on oil, I remember that being a fav

 

[darktone]

Without the old blinkers, just the usual up n downy stuff with a bit more downy.

yada yada

 

[darktone]

But with the blinkers

 

[tar]

Post #78 is a classic case of making an argument based on hindsight , as i said anyone can make these type of arguments , just upload your favorite chart and post hypothetical examples of where on should have bought and where should have sold and add a pip counter for each wave .