Albert,
that greatly resembled one of those old Hollywood B/W films where the hero (Bing Crosby, perhaps) would tell his sidekick to 'Ixnay on the Amscray' or similar. I can't help but admire your command of the 'cobblerspeak' <g> (Just in case the tone should be misunderstood I am smiling as I type).
As an aspiring type I'll accept that some, perhaps much, of what I type is off target - however I very seldom post anything intended to hurt or offend, whilst accepting that sometimes the limitations of the medium lead to offence where none is intended. In this thread I thought we were having an amicable discussion, with occasional items of note - it's not just an urge to waffle, going into print here can help us develop our ideas. I've not noticed anything requiring censorship so far, and am quite surprised to hear that it may have occurred.
that greatly resembled one of those old Hollywood B/W films where the hero (Bing Crosby, perhaps) would tell his sidekick to 'Ixnay on the Amscray' or similar. I can't help but admire your command of the 'cobblerspeak' <g> (Just in case the tone should be misunderstood I am smiling as I type).
As an aspiring type I'll accept that some, perhaps much, of what I type is off target - however I very seldom post anything intended to hurt or offend, whilst accepting that sometimes the limitations of the medium lead to offence where none is intended. In this thread I thought we were having an amicable discussion, with occasional items of note - it's not just an urge to waffle, going into print here can help us develop our ideas. I've not noticed anything requiring censorship so far, and am quite surprised to hear that it may have occurred.
SOCRATES
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Of course it is very good natured, and very enjoyable indeed, and these are elevated discussion by members who are very well informed sprinkled with a bit of fun, to let off steam from this dreary business of collecting beans from squiggles appearing on a screen.
Now because these members are very well informed sometimes someone not so well informed misses or misinterprets the gist of the discussion. Frequently these discussions are very delicate and borderline as to whether the content, which is invairably fascinating and absorbing can be blatantly discussed in a way that any visitor and his cat can grab and misuse, you see.
So all of us have to be very careful not to let cats out of bags. What happens is that sometimes purely innocent comment and interchange of ideas is intercepted by the thought police. But I have an idea.
And the idea that I have is because I am able to get hold of a wartime Enigma replica. Then when something really sensitive and valuable needs to be discussed it could be done using the standard
wartime four letter code.
Messages would look like this :~
FTKU GKYS GREU GIKT GERS JOUY ?
HERW HIOK HHYE DUIJ GTER HFRT SVJN NFRA CJUF BKJH LLON.
HSWAC BORP KGYB LMGY HJTF KIOL MFFM, etc.,
Now this would not be any fun for anybody but would guarantee only even fewer would be able to join in.
What now ?
Now because these members are very well informed sometimes someone not so well informed misses or misinterprets the gist of the discussion. Frequently these discussions are very delicate and borderline as to whether the content, which is invairably fascinating and absorbing can be blatantly discussed in a way that any visitor and his cat can grab and misuse, you see.
So all of us have to be very careful not to let cats out of bags. What happens is that sometimes purely innocent comment and interchange of ideas is intercepted by the thought police. But I have an idea.
And the idea that I have is because I am able to get hold of a wartime Enigma replica. Then when something really sensitive and valuable needs to be discussed it could be done using the standard
wartime four letter code.
Messages would look like this :~
FTKU GKYS GREU GIKT GERS JOUY ?
HERW HIOK HHYE DUIJ GTER HFRT SVJN NFRA CJUF BKJH LLON.
HSWAC BORP KGYB LMGY HJTF KIOL MFFM, etc.,
Now this would not be any fun for anybody but would guarantee only even fewer would be able to join in.
What now ?
SOCRATES
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I agree with you Roberto, it probably is for the reasons above, however, perhaps some comments upset the thought police as a result of upsetting some "set up" to lend a paraphrase to some hidden agenda.Roberto said:
You can be guaranteed that I have nothing to do with it, to the contrary, as I am accused of all sorts of misdemeanours, but no one can say that I am not blunt and when I have to say somthing I say it, even though some members may consider it arcane even because they do not understand it.
Now, if we had to resortt to discussions being printed in Enigma four letter code, it would require the acquisition of at least two machines. I can get hold of one, if I can get hold of another it is a method of communication worth considering perhaps.
Soc,
not a problem - I have some experience in the field, but you don't need Enigma... I doubt many people would have the ability to decode even the simplest of codes... pick a common volume, make it Murphy to ensure a liberal sprinkling of TA terms are available perhaps, then just send page number, line number, word number groups (ignore headings) such as
401/16/1, 254/1/13, 199/1/2, 17/2/4, 97/2/10......
Should the thought police intrude then simply mail out one time pads via email....<g>
not a problem - I have some experience in the field, but you don't need Enigma... I doubt many people would have the ability to decode even the simplest of codes... pick a common volume, make it Murphy to ensure a liberal sprinkling of TA terms are available perhaps, then just send page number, line number, word number groups (ignore headings) such as
401/16/1, 254/1/13, 199/1/2, 17/2/4, 97/2/10......
Should the thought police intrude then simply mail out one time pads via email....<g>
Just so. The main reason I'm unhappy about it is that a couple of threads to which I had contributed a bit have very msyteriously disappeared, while at the same time in another thread I am apparently being blamed (and entirely unjustly) for the removal of some posts. In that thread, I had indeed "reported a bad post" a day or two earlier, the post in question being clearly offensive, and the moderator very kindly removed it promptly. And this apparently somehow makes me responsible for much subsequent censorship of which I was not even aware!SOCRATES said:
Indeed ... I did not for a moment mean to imply otherwise, I hasten to add!SOCRATES said:
As, apparently, am I now, to my great surprise.SOCRATES said:
Ah, now you're talking. Was it yourself who removed one of those machines from Bletchley Park last year? Alternatively, if by any chance you have access to the original Owen & Chadwick decipherment documents, you can see out the rest of the thread in "Linear B" ...SOCRATES said:
TheBramble
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hatsta a oodga deaia avedaDaveJB said:
Bigbusiness
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Awyren hofran bwll chymedrolwyr Dydd Mercher.
SOCRATES
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Yes and no.RUDEBOY said:
Markets have always existed. In the beginning it must have been very difficult to buy or sell anything because the idea of currency had not been developed properly. I will come back to this in a minute.....
So in the early days markets operated on the basis of what is called barter. This meant that people would meet to exchange food, or goods or animals with each other in prearranged places at prearranged times.
The difficulty was to establish how to value the food, goods, or animals against one another, and then how to accomodate the differences. This must have been very stressful and must have led to a lot of argument, even wars.
As civilisation progressed, some bright spark thought of the idea of using tokens. Those tokens were the earliest coins, that is the earliest form of currency.
Now there arose another problem, and that was to create coins or tokens that could not be counterfeited, to prevent cheating. I think it is at this stage in human consciousness that coins became synonymous with value, and as an extension of this idea, with demonstrable and tangible wealth.
Gold and Silver were two favourite metals in the beginning used as tokens, because it was believed that because as uncommon metals that their supply would be restricted, but as history unfolded this was slowly discovered not to be exactly so. And then another problem arose; Cheating.
Some unscrupulous individuals discovered it was possible to make alloys using gold and silver in order to unfairly maximise the new concept of "buying power" each of these tokens could command. All these developments slowly tilt humanity towards the concept of a love of money, you see.
So some method had to be devised to stop people cheating either by scraping the edges of coins to make more on the side, or to stop them cheating by making "fake" alloy coins. Along comes Archimedes, who was given the task by his monarch to discover a way to stop the cheating.
And so one day he sat in his bath and the water rose and he had a realisation. He discovered the principle of displacement. He realised that the amount of water his body displaced could be weighed. By this simple fact he reasoned that the weight of the water he displaced had an equivalent of his own body weight, and that this would be a constant.
If gold was immersed in water there would also be a constant existing between the weight of gold and the water it displaced. He actually discovered the principle of density, for want of a better description. In his excitement, he ran down the street in his birthday suit, dripping wet, yelling "Eureka !". "Eureka !" (Which in Greek means "I found it !".)
I am telling you all these things because this further brings to the notice of people that coins made of gold now are not just tokens but have a value of their own, that is, they now become a medium of exchange and a store of value. The awareness of humanity as to their desireablity is now stimulated even more than previously.
And so through the ages this love of money, and the benefits it can be percieved to bring, becomes rooted worldwide in the consciousness of mankind in societies that use it.
Now it happens that the Middle Ages come and go, and commerce begins to flourish
(Commerce is different to Business, because in Commerce the object is to deliver value,
whereas in Business the object is not to truly to deliver value but to pretend to deliver it but not really to do so (and may involve cheating, squirreling, thieving, plaigarism, unfairness, character assasination, pretence, lying and lots of nasty things well disguised) - it took me a long time to discover this fact as a consequence of believing to be conducting commerce but coming across individuals who were doing business, but that is another matter, but it is relevant to your question so I am including it, because you will understand later.
Now we progress in history but all sorts of objects are made by hand, books are written with quill pens, and nothing is mechanised.
Suddenly many things happen in quick sequence. The printing press is invented, the cotton loom, steam, amongst other early inventions. Suddenly there is a boom involving new ideas.
These new ideas are revolutionary because they change everything. Money is needed fast to fund all these new ideas, including exploration,engineering,trade,mining,manufacturing,and so venues are established in which people can meet to raise money for these ventures. This is the birth of the exchanges, The Stock Exchanges, The Commodities Exchanges, Exchanges for Insurance, for Underwriting of Risk, for Metals, for Wool, and many other "instruments" necessary to keep economies running.
So the markets, all these market evolved around a need. Each one developed and was established to serve a particular need. This need was for a mechanism to be put in place where buyers and sellers could transact their business. As this mechanism developed, so it became more and more sophisticated, until it became what it is today, worldwide.
This is the nature of commerce.
But what happens is that the love of money gets in the way because of its perverse ability to corrupt. What happens is that what started off as commerce also as a consequence becomes corrupted and evolves as business in the public awareness.
Now what happens is that rules have to be put in place to stop abuses and malpractices.
The members of these exchanges are bound by a code of conduct that is very strict. These members have to carry out their business and at the same time maintain order flow and preserve liduidity. Often they have to do things that are not understood clearly by most people because the perception of the public is different to the reality of what takes place.
And these conditions create a horrible misconception. This misconception causes people to misunderstand that money is only a fuel used to drive the engine of supply and demand.
In their hast to acquire money, the public forgets that. They begin to chase it by not fully understandinging and accepiting all of this I have explained to you.
Now is when the problems really start. The public, which is conditioned to chase money, at any cost, do not generally view acting within a framework of reason and logical deduction as necessary, they just want the money. In chasing the money, they forget how it is they ought to behave. They get impatient, aggressive, and so on.
The key is to understand first and then the collection of money, which is the reward for being right, consistently right arrives later, and not the other way round.
So you are right in asking the original question, yes, to some extent the markets evolved around money, but the internal and external perceptions of it, it's existence, utitily. and value are totally opposite.
If you are a trader, you must lose your love of money first in order to acquire it.
I hope and expect that this clarifies the matter for you.
SOCRATES
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No, I would never remove something that was not my property.Roberto said:
But I have been offered an original, but it is in need of restoration, and if I could obtain a second one I would not hesitate spending money to restore the first, just to make up a pair.
I have an acquaintance in the Channel Islands who has one, mint, but he displays it in a glass case in the Museum of Occupation, and will not part with it for any price, he says.
My mother was recruited for Bletchley Park but was very ill in wartime and was not able to join, she never found out what it was she was expected to do until several years after the war.
SOCRATES
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I don't think the mods would object to an Enigma thread. It would be fun.DaveJB said:
Incidentally, the mods are not the thought police.
The culprit is a thread starter who mods his own threads, and, who is apt to remove statements that challenge his limited views, excusively mechanical, and, persists in answerering questions with questions.
I mean to say, it is really tedious and really really boring, that is why I do not post there.
Also because this tactic of answering questions with questions is an interrogative technique utilised to extract valuable answers to riddles left unsolved on his part, I have sussed.
In consequence, I am not volunteering any solutions either, not because I cannot,
but because I do not think it appropriate, as I have tried in the past, only to have posts
deleted.
By the way, "B" keep quiet and don't let cats out of bags, please.
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peterpr
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With absolutely no intention to offend anyone, I offer the following from a US list on the subject of gurus. It tickled me and, of all the current threads that I am on at least nodding terms with, this seemed the most apposite.
"Real Gurus are as hard to spot as Osama Bin Laden who we all know has fantastic trading abilities but rarely opens his mouth to show the world what he's trading. Whilst Wannabee Gurus are as common as SUVs, the Self-Confessed Guru is the most dangerous type of this species as they believe that they are right even when shown to be wrong and have the bad habit of removing other people assets through bad advice.
The hardest Guru of all to spot is the Deaf, Dumb & Blind Guru, as they can't be seen, heard or noticed, so on rare occasions one can be in the presence of one these unusual creatures and not even be aware of it.
Logic predicates that the more vocal the Guru, the bigger the fool for listening to him.
Caveat Emptor"
"Real Gurus are as hard to spot as Osama Bin Laden who we all know has fantastic trading abilities but rarely opens his mouth to show the world what he's trading. Whilst Wannabee Gurus are as common as SUVs, the Self-Confessed Guru is the most dangerous type of this species as they believe that they are right even when shown to be wrong and have the bad habit of removing other people assets through bad advice.
The hardest Guru of all to spot is the Deaf, Dumb & Blind Guru, as they can't be seen, heard or noticed, so on rare occasions one can be in the presence of one these unusual creatures and not even be aware of it.
Logic predicates that the more vocal the Guru, the bigger the fool for listening to him.
Caveat Emptor"
Bigbusiness
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I think it is worth reading 'Reminiscences of a stock operator' about Jesse Livermore. He was one of the best traders around over 70 years ago and even then he emphasises the importance of avoiding gurus and doing your own work.
roguetrader
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ROFLMAO, well spotted peterpr, that should be on the home page.
