How To Think Correctly

[starspacer]

My previous contribution, appreciated by some and derided by many took but a few moments of my time...

Yes, it shows. Still, it only wastes a few seconds to read it, being at the level an infant could comprehend. For this, I thank you.

...and one thing is very clear to me, no ones going to see a glimpse of genius here on T2W anytime soon.

Yes, you are right, there are only a very small number on T2W. If one is lucky and reads ten thousand threads, 1 genius may be discovered.

The only nagging uneasiness I feel is seeing a bunch of charlatans picking over CYOF’s discarded carcass. Its funny, and he got what he deserved, but it makes for uneasy reading all the same.

And when shall we feast on your carcass?

 

[zupcon]

But I am able to do my own research - what ever gave you the opinion that I am not?

I told you what I think of this approach - and in case you don't remember me speaking about Db's statement for reviving his thread, and had his recent post to his subscribers anything to do with it - and how there is always a method in someone's madness - ALWAYS !

As for making a tit of myself, as you put it, it really does not bother me what anyone thinks of me, never did,and never will, period.

As I think this recent bout is about Options, I have't seen anyone challenge the 85% rule yet?

What is wrong - is this deliberately ignored, or has it just been "overlooked".

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, I respond according to the post, good will be met with good, and bad will be met with bad, as it rightly should be - no other way.

You see - the facts are as follows - I do not need anyone to help me with my trading, why, because I can think for myself - it really is as simple as that, but the majority here, not all btw, seem to think that I am looking for something - how wrong you are, how wrong.

Socrtaes posts, believe it or not, can help traders to develop the correct attitude for consistent returns at the higher end of the scale, but if no one want's to even listen, and are happy to stay in the comfort zone, so be it, everyone gets entirely what they deserve in life, no more, no less!

My posts, are only trotting behind many, but you see, I do not care a tit about what others think, I only care about one person, and this is the way it should be with all. It really is a tough game, and to be weak is not any benefit at all, really!

I nearly drifted back in to my old ways prior to fulltime trading, but thanks to Socrates, I now see where my major flaw really was - which I am now correcting - slowly, but surely. I am glad I got the "kick in the pants", so as to speak.

And while we are on the subject of checking people out Zu, what do you actually do yourself?

You know what I do, as I have indicated it in the past, but then again, I don't have anything to hide from anyone, do I.

Slainte

Hi CYOF

I promised to get back to you with a detailed response and I shall, hopefully tomorrow if time permits, and I’ll also cover the points made in your latest post.

For the record, I was originally 100% behind you when you originally stated this thread; I think I may have even clicked the report good post button on one occasion. However somewhere along the way things took a turn for the worst, and I honestly think you lost the plot.

It’s a complicated thread, and it doesn’t help that personal feuds between members have derailed it to an extent in places. I promise to spend some time tomorrow reviewing a few old posts and seeing if I can pin point where it all went wrong and hopefully shine some light to help you see things from my perspective. It’s not a personal attack by any means, and you have every right to defend your position with a like for like stance.

You don’t need to sell the benefits of Socrates posts at all; I’m generally in complete agreement with most of what he writes. We differ in two respects, he approaches things from the dark side, and I don’t, I’m more inclined to believe there are a multitude of paths to the same ends, and from the little I’ve read my understanding is that he feels there’s a single structured correct path, and he feels the psychological aspects are perhaps more important than I do. That said Soc’s has been at this game for a number of years, I’ve only got 3 or 4 years full time experience of day trading, but did a fair bit of EOD stuff previously.

I think it’s an over generalisation to state that no one listens to Socrates, I certainly do, and I’ve enjoyed very pleasant exchanges with Socs on and off the public forums for some time, and certainly hope to continue to do so.

I’m not going to give you a life history, but it goes something like this, university, industrial research and development, back to academic research, PhD post grad research, back to industrial R&D (I worked for Phillip’s in Heindhoven for quite a while, if you check out that laboratory you’ll find they have the highest number of Nobel prize’s awarded to any research institution in the world, so I can actually recognise genius (and the lack of it) when I see it), more R&D in the UK in the field of electron optics, then surprisingly into business on my own account, initially research and development, then later information technology and e commerce, where my interest in currency trading began as CTO/CFO of a company operating in over 100 different countries. I’ll give you a bit more info tomorrow perhaps, particularly on the NLP aspects

I effectively retired in my late 30’s to concentrate on currency trading, best business decision I ever made, and wished Id done it 15 years previously.

 

[orion69]

Sorry, kid. If you want enemies, you have to matter. I suggest that you and bertie work on that.

People like Socco can achieve this without breaking sweat. Know what i mean Sir? Even just by using a few smilies would do the trick.

Merry xmas and a good new yr to U Sir!

069

 

[Atilla]

If you are successful, you will win some false friends and some true enemies.
Succeed anyway.

069

Where does that quote come from?

Logically reversing that quote then...

If you are a failure, you will win some true friends and some false enemies...

Could we explain this as one perceives false enemies giving good advice as bad contrary to ones own ideas and hence one remains a failure blaming others (false enemies). :!:

 

[zupcon]

Yes, it shows. Still, it only wastes a few seconds to read it, being at the level an infant could comprehend. For this, I thank you.

And when shall we feast on your carcass?

I was always taught that I should write for my target audience. I fail to see what’s so difficult that we need to engage in complex language. Its not as hard as you might think.

Unfortunately my carcass is no longer on offer

 

[Atilla]

HI EVERYONE,

All this intellectual debate (or not perhaps what ever your view ) about psychology with the luggage that goes with it can / should be put to use. Why not test idealogies by entering the

DOW Competition or
SHARE Competition

under Resources on this web-site. Proof of the pudding is in the eating and at least we will all have some real matter to discuss and debate or our approaches to trading which is what this site is about.

Festive greetings,

 

[SOCRATES]

Where does that quote come from?

Logically reversing that quote then...

If you are a failure, you will win some true friends and some false enemies...

Could we explain this as one perceives false enemies giving good advice as bad contrary to ones own ideas and hence one remains a failure blaming others (false enemies). :!:

Orion is busy and I am sure Orion will not mind if I reply to you on his behalf.

The quote is the result of a tangible realisation.

This realisation has to do with the relentless pursuit of excellence, and what is more, it is experiential.

The opposite relates to the opposite.

The opposite is collective mediocrity and no experience at all.

I hope and expect the explanation satisfies your idea presented as a conceptual inversion, purely, I expect only for the intellectual curiosity that it playfully promotes.

 

[starspacer]

...Unfortunately my carcass is no longer on offer

Pity, I was just getting hungry.

 

[dbphoenix]

People like Socco can achieve this without breaking sweat. Know what i mean Sir? Even just by using a few smilies would do the trick.

Sorry, no. It's just amusement, nothing more.

Bertie and his posse . . .

 

[zupcon]

And since you mention Gracian, here is a pertinent quote for you zupcon:


Mediocrities never win applause. Eminence in some distinguished post distinguishes one from the vulgar mob and ranks us with the elect. To be distinguished in a Small post is to be great in little: the more comfort, the less glory.

Thanks very much appreciated. I’m sure anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together wont dispute the wisdom of Gracian.

But this forum is about trading, and although I actually love the whole process of trading, it’s not a particularly glamorous occupation, and god only knows you don’t need to be anything special to participate, most of the time its about as interesting as watching paint dry, and I dont know a single trader on the planet who participates in the markets for applause. Its not some form of noble art, or magic, Now don’t get me wrong, whilst I appreciate the occasional injection of culture, I’m not really sure where this is getting us.

I mean it’s not as if there’s any great wisdom or knowledge being imparted in posts where you’re simply just arguing with a nameless faceless individual on an internet forum. For all you know I might be a clever piece or Artificial Intelligence software. You don’t even consider me a worthy adversary, yet here you are, constantly having a pop, without any objective or motive.

Now if you want to do something worthy and intellectually challenging, or you want to distinguish yourself, go away and find a cure for cancer, or broker a peace deal in the Middle East, you know something that actually matters rather than pontificating about price going up or down on a chart.

 

[Atilla]

Thanks very much appreciated. I’m sure anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together wont dispute the wisdom of Gracian.

But this forum is about trading, and although I actually love the whole process of trading, it’s not a particularly glamorous occupation, and god only knows you don’t need to be anything special to participate, most of the time its about as interesting as watching paint dry, and I dont know a single trader on the planet who participates in the markets for applause. Its not some form of noble art, or magic, Now don’t get me wrong, whilst I appreciate the occasional injection of culture, I’m not really sure where this is getting us.

I mean it’s not as if there’s any great wisdom or knowledge being imparted in posts where you’re simply just arguing with a nameless faceless individual on an internet forum. For all you know I might be a clever piece or Artificial Intelligence software. You don’t even consider me a worthy adversary, yet here you are, constantly having a pop, without any objective or motive.

Now if you want to do something worthy and intellectually challenging, or you want to distinguish yourself, go away and find a cure for cancer, or broker a peace deal in the Middle East, you know something that actually matters rather than pontificating about price going up or down on a chart.

The price going up or down is the road map to finding cheese. Cheese matters.

 

[orion69]

HI EVERYONE,

All this intellectual debate (or not perhaps what ever your view ) about psychology with the luggage that goes with it can / should be put to use. Why not test idealogies by entering the

DOW Competition or
SHARE Competition

under Resources on this web-site. Proof of the pudding is in the eating and at least we will all have some real matter to discuss and debate or our approaches to trading which is what this site is about.

Festive greetings,

Atilla,

I will win the compitition hands down. [thats not just a boast, its fact] How many enemies or friends do U think it will win me? I say the first thing that would happen is that i would get a ban.

Did Bulldozer get banned? or did he ask for a permanent ban? If U dont know the answer? ask Mr Frugi.
Why did he have so many enemies here? Like Socco said, he made many 100% winning calls without ONE losing trade and proved his enemies wrong on his own.

The real facts are that the majority of the members here dont like to see winners! it makes them angry with hatred and envy. Where are those winners that used to post on here?

 

[andycan]

Atilla,

I will win the compitition hands down. [thats not just a boast, its fact] How many enemies or friends do U think it will win me? I say the first thing that would happen is that i would get a ban.

Did Bulldozer get banned? or did he ask for a permanent ban? If U dont know the answer? ask Mr Frugi.
Why did he have so many enemies here? Like Socco said, he made many 100% winning calls without ONE losing trade and proved his enemies wrong on his own.

The real facts are that the majority of the members here dont like to see winners! it makes them angry with hatred and envy. Where are those winners that used to post on here?

I like to see winners!!!
i have had the absolute privilege to see one work first hand, when you see that level of skill its harmonious
like a grand master performing his forms, it also gives one inspiration, a tangible ideal to aim for

 

[starspacer]

Thanks very much appreciated. I’m sure anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together wont dispute the wisdom of Gracian.

I’m glad you agree then, although I may have been a little harsh. You deserve to be rated a little above a mediocrity simply because you contribute to the debate.

...I dont know a single trader on the planet who participates in the markets for applause. Its not some form of noble art, or magic, Now don’t get me wrong, whilst I appreciate the occasional injection of culture, I’m not really sure where this is getting us.

But it is my dear zupcake. This is precisely where you lose the thread. You would find that the true Master plays the game mostly for intellectual curiousity. Few of us have need for further material gain and prefer to devote a few moments completing the daily puzzle, rather like a simple form of Sudoku. It keeps the brain young and provides a form of intellectual nourishment. A rather pleasant pastime.

...For all you know I might be a clever piece or Artificial Intelligence software.

Now, you are suddenly becoming interesting zup. Perhaps our 2 AI’s can mind-meld?

Now if you want to do something worthy and intellectually challenging, or you want to distinguish yourself, go away and find a cure for cancer, or broker a peace deal in the Middle East, you know something that actually matters rather than pontificating about price going up or down on a chart.

I completed my lifetime’s work at 27, but I feel no need to elaborate. It is enough that I know.

 

[CYOF]

Hi CYOF

I promised to get back to you with a detailed response and I shall, hopefully tomorrow if time permits, and I’ll also cover the points made in your latest post.

For the record, I was originally 100% behind you when you originally stated this thread; I think I may have even clicked the report good post button on one occasion. However somewhere along the way things took a turn for the worst, and I honestly think you lost the plot.

It’s a complicated thread, and it doesn’t help that personal feuds between members have derailed it to an extent in places. I promise to spend some time tomorrow reviewing a few old posts and seeing if I can pin point where it all went wrong and hopefully shine some light to help you see things from my perspective. It’s not a personal attack by any means, and you have every right to defend your position with a like for like stance.

You don’t need to sell the benefits of Socrates posts at all; I’m generally in complete agreement with most of what he writes. We differ in two respects, he approaches things from the dark side, and I don’t, I’m more inclined to believe there are a multitude of paths to the same ends, and from the little I’ve read my understanding is that he feels there’s a single structured correct path, and he feels the psychological aspects are perhaps more important than I do. That said Soc’s has been at this game for a number of years, I’ve only got 3 or 4 years full time experience of day trading, but did a fair bit of EOD stuff previously.

I think it’s an over generalisation to state that no one listens to Socrates, I certainly do, and I’ve enjoyed very pleasant exchanges with Socs on and off the public forums for some time, and certainly hope to continue to do so.

I’m not going to give you a life history, but it goes something like this, university, industrial research and development, back to academic research, PhD post grad research, back to industrial R&D (I worked for Phillip’s in Heindhoven for quite a while, if you check out that laboratory you’ll find they have the highest number of Nobel prize’s awarded to any research institution in the world, so I can actually recognise genius (and the lack of it) when I see it), more R&D in the UK in the field of electron optics, then surprisingly into business on my own account, initially research and development, then later information technology and e commerce, where my interest in currency trading began as CTO/CFO of a company operating in over 100 different countries. I’ll give you a bit more info tomorrow perhaps, particularly on the NLP aspects

I effectively retired in my late 30’s to concentrate on currency trading, best business decision I ever made, and wished Id done it 15 years previously.

Fair post - as to losing the plot, done that a long time ago

Looking forward to the reply.

Regards,

 

[Atilla]

Atilla,

I will win the compitition hands down. [thats not just a boast, its fact] How many enemies or friends do U think it will win me? I say the first thing that would happen is that i would get a ban.

Did Bulldozer get banned? or did he ask for a permanent ban? If U dont know the answer? ask Mr Frugi.
Why did he have so many enemies here? Like Socco said, he made many 100% winning calls without ONE losing trade and proved his enemies wrong on his own.

The real facts are that the majority of the members here dont like to see winners! it makes them angry with hatred and envy. Where are those winners that used to post on here?

I'll take that as a Yes for playing in the competition then...

Speaking of enemies and friends here is an old Rags Week joke that I carry with me as part of my luggage.



We are in the middle of winter. Snow everywhere... A little red Robin is starving to death with nothing to eat - ground covered in a blanket of snow. As it is about to inhale it's last gasp of cold icy air . . . PLOP :!: PLOP :!:

Suddenly it finds it self covered in wonderfuly warm sorround. Not only is it warm but it sees rich little yellow bits and pieces to pick and nibble at. Basically, a cow has just dropped two big piles of sh1t on it...

Little Robin finds it self in a snugly warm environment and with it's belly nourished feels happy and starts chirping away in the middle of winter.

A little fox passing by who is just as cold and hungry as the Robin was hears this delightful tune and follows it's ears. Finding the freshly made dung still steaming with warmth, digs the little Robin out and eats it. :!:

Now there are three morals to this story.

1. Somebody who SH1Ts on you is not necessarily your enemy.
2. Somebody who gets you out of the SH1T is not necesarily your friend.
3. If you are in the SH1T but in general happy... keep your quiet about it.

I'm not sure who are enemies or who are friends but life is good...

More festive greetings,

 

[dbphoenix]

Now if you want to do something worthy and intellectually challenging, or you want to distinguish yourself, go away and find a cure for cancer, or broker a peace deal in the Middle East, you know something that actually matters rather than pontificating about price going up or down on a chart.

Now that's the most appropriate seasonal comment I've read so far.

Here's to ya, zup.

Db

 

[SOCRATES]

I would like to post the following pm & my response. Others may have misinterpreted also.


I believe you may have misinterpreted the meaning. You perhaps are aware of fractals. Each fractal is a subset of another and this process ultimately goes beyond infinity or humankind's ability to comprehend. In the same way, the Master trades iteratively, knowing all the while that the odds are stacked in his favour. There is no worry or concern, simply the quiet assurance that the goal will be met. The long term can be 1 day or 10 years, it makes no odds. Just as Mandelbrot's measurement of the coastline of Britain reached infinity, so the trading prowess of the Master reaches a level that is simply incomprehensible to the Masses. They will then seek to attack the Master by foul means, but the Master is wise. He anticipates this and moves in a dimension that escapes censure. For he has become immortal.

The masses, through dereliction of proper enterprise are apt to misdirect themselves into a hall of mirrors, in which each reflection serves to confuse and disorientate. The problem for them is that though at first the experience may no doubt be enjoyable and the entry ticket is a free one, the exit ticket becomes anavailable thus trapping them without rescue or hope of relief of any sort. The master occupies another dimension, in which multiple confusing refections do not figure, and, untainted and uncontaminated by such hindrances, from a great height does he observe the antics of the trapped from a viewpoint of wry amusement and in quiet contemplation.

 

[zupcon]

But it is my dear zupcake. This is precisely where you lose the thread. You would find that the true Master plays the game mostly for intellectual curiousity. Few of us have need for further material gain and prefer to devote a few moments completing the daily puzzle, rather like a simple form of Sudoku. It keeps the brain young and provides a form of intellectual nourishment. A rather pleasant pastime.

I completed my lifetime’s work at 27, but I feel no need to elaborate. It is enough that I know.

At last we seam to be in some form of agreement; I agree 100% from my perspective at least that it’s a puzzle and an intellectual challenge. Now that puzzle can be solved in a brutal soulless fashion, and I personally have absolutely no problems approaching the market in that way, the beauty is in the mathematics, or the thought processes required in achieving this.

Alternatively, and what I find infinitely more satisfying, is becoming a part of the environment, and attempting to solve the puzzle from that perspective.

I suspect that we are poles apart in our approach, I’m mechanical, relatively inexperienced, and your obviously not. I will concede that despite my clunky mechanical approach, some days I’m in tune and other days I’m not, and when I’m not I soon know about it. I spend a lot of time sailing, and this is really the only other thing that I’ve ever experienced that comes close to providing these sorts of intuitive challenges.

For me personally, I feel that the market that I trade presents enough repeatable patterns that I don’t really need to get metaphysical or mystic. Most of the time, I’m a soulless robotic machine with as much soul or intuition as the bar code scanner at my local supermarket, however I do get the occasional glimpse of what’s potentially possible, and I do have some empathy with your views. The trader within me empathises, but the scientist rebels.

I might cover this in a little more detail when I reply to CYOF, as I honestly do believe that for the novice trader my approach has some merit, and provides an easier platform from which to build.

I may be wrong, and from a personal perspective it’s all far too late now, I took the approach I took and I am where I am, but I think it’s a debate worth having.

regards
zup

 

[the blades]

Really? Then why do you spend so much time p***ing in this ‘sewer’ (that’s ‘posting’ Mods )? Could it be that deep down in some really cellular way, you realise that you may just stumble upon the Truth through glimpsing genius at work?

I think it's the pure comedy genius, summed up above, that make people "**** in the sewer".

I must go, I have important friends calling .

UTB