How To Think Correctly

[SOCRATES]

Yes, and furthermore, the highest skill in poker is to know when to discard; the weakest current hand is worth more than the best cards of the last game. This is correct thought and applies equally to Master Trading.

Yes indeed and I agree with you wholeheartedly. But you see, I was not prepared to expand on it any further, as I have come to realise that to expand too much in the wrong circumstances is not wise.

It makes one feel rather like the castaway clinging to a raft, surrounded by sharks circling round and round, that have to be constantly fended off with a properly weilded and hefty oar.:cheesy:

 

[counter_violent]

Yes indeed and I agree with you wholeheartedly. But you see, I was not prepared to expand on it any further, as I have come to realise that to expand too much in the wrong circumstances is not wise.

It makes one feel rather like the castaway clinging to a raft, surrounded by sharks circling round and round, that have to be constantly fended off with a properly weilded and hefty oar.:cheesy:

I think you may find, the majority gave up on all this twaddle a long time ago and left.

merry humbug

 

[SOCRATES]

O69

I am beginning to see the light - but as it has been mentioned on this thread(between the lines - which I sometimes miss), the path is not an easy one to take. Also, the path is very narrow and thus must be threaded lightly.

Slainte

Yes, and additionally I will add for your benefit, that to stray off the narrow path is dangerous, as invariably there are malicious pygmies hidden in the bushes and armed with blowpipes.:cheesy:

The dilemma is to discuss the safe route though all this beyond the comprehension of the midgets in the bushes, who additionally to being armed with poison darts, have very sharp pointed ears.:cheesy:

 

[starspacer]

Yes, the mob will receive no more than a hint, so as to disarm some of the malevolence we have experienced on this thread.

 

[PKFFW]

You seem to overlook the significance of the obvious, and since you bring up the game of poker I will illuminate you a bit. The game of poker is skill orientated....and the players....do not reveal what hand they hold to each other..they do not share .....isn't that the case ? Otherwise the game itself is pointless. But a skilled player can do a lot to maximise his advantage. There you have it.

Soc, you and your ilk never seem to get it do you?

Imagine if you would an astrologer or tarot card reader. Sitting there divining the future through their arcane knowledge. Telling all who will listen that they "operate from a frame work of expectancy and near certainty". They refuse to actually say anything verifiable. Simply give vague, riddle like answers to any questions. Then should anyone dare to disagree with them, or ask for further clarification, even in the politest of ways, they will reply with thinly veiled insults, condescending words and an arrogant attitude and proclaim they will not spoonfeed this valuable information to anyone. Claiming only people of superior intellect, knowledge or understanding will be of sufficiently "high level" to understand their words of apparent wisdom. Only those open minded enough will be able to grasp the deeper meaning of their words, etc etc etc.

If this were the case you would very likely(and quite rightly) be denouncing them as a charlaton.

This is the same game you are playing.

You both claim "thinking correctly" is the most important part. Neither will give any verifiable, concrete indication as to how to think correctly, what correct thinking entails, how anyone else who disagrees with you is not thinking correctly or any other such thing. You claim to have near certainty in analysing the markets but refuse to back that claim up in any way, again insulting any who dare ask you to.

You see the funniest part is that you may very well have the keys to the kingdom. That is the keys that will let you into the kingdom. You mistakenly believe this is the only key. See, thinking correctly is obviously what you feel is the most important part of trading. Is it because this is what you may have struggled with most when learning to become a trader? Is this the aspect that gave you difficulty?

Ask another trader and he may tell you discipline to do what he knows he must is the most important part of trading. For him this mystical key of yours is no good because he already knows how to think correctly, he struggles with getting himself to actually do it.

Another trader may tell you controlling his emotions is the most important part of trading. Again he may know exactly how to think, be disciplined in his approach but the moment he is in a trade his emotions run riot. So again your key is no good to him. No amount of supercilious, condescending "polite rudeness" from you will lead him in a round about way to find the key he needs because your key isn't the one he needs.

My point is, just because you and CYOF both have apparently found a method that works for you, it doesn't mean yours is the only way. It doesn't even mean what you think is important must be important to all, or even to one single other. Yours and CYOF's inability to grasp this simple truth shows you to not be as perfect as you so often claim to be. Your inability to distinguish between a "truth" and a "belief" also shows a distinct lack of critical thinking and reasoning.

And btw, as I have said before, I have no reason to doubt you are not as successful a trader as you claim to be. Certainly more successful than I. When it comes to poker though, I would give you any odds you care to name that I have far more experience and success at the game than you. Of course as I have no way of proving this I know and recognise it as a belief and not a truth.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[starspacer]

Soc, you and your ilk never seem to get it do you?

Ask another trader and he may tell you discipline to do what he knows he must is the most important part of trading. For him this mystical key of yours is no good because he already knows how to think correctly, he struggles with getting himself to actually do it.

Another trader may tell you controlling his emotions is the most important part of trading. Again he may know exactly how to think, be disciplined in his approach but the moment he is in a trade his emotions run riot. So again your key is no good to him. No amount of supercilious, condescending "polite rudeness" from you will lead him in a round about way to find the key he needs because your key isn't the one he needs.

PKFFW

Above is edited.

No, no PKFFW. In the examples you quote, pure luck is at play. You will alway get (a good number) of players who statistically win over the short or medium term, whether in poker or trading, simply due to random luck. Just in the same way that in a world populace of 6 billion, if each were asked to throw 100 coins, perhaps 1 thousand would throw 100 heads.

It is the long term odds that we are interested in. Correct thinking gives us the 'edge' necessary to win.

I do commend you however on having the courage to speak out. For this, you are in a precious minority and on the correct path to Mastery. It is simply your thinking that needs enhancement. This will happen in due course if you open your mind to clear thought.

 

[Profitaker]

removed extreme seasons greetings!!

How's the gambling going - or am I mixing you up with someone else?

My gambling is going extremely well. Once you realise exactly what it is you're doing one can look at odds and probabilities and.....do extremely well.

How's your "trading" doing, or am I mixing you up with someone else ?

Seasons greetings

 

[PKFFW]

Above is edited.

No, no PKFFW. In the examples you quote, pure luck is at play. You will alway get (a good number) of players who statistically win over the short or medium term, whether in poker or trading, simply due to random luck. Just in the same way that in a world populace of 6 billion, if each were asked to throw 100 coins, perhaps 1 thousand would throw 100 heads.

It is the long term odds that we are interested in. Correct thinking gives us the 'edge' necessary to win.

I do commend you however on having the courage to speak out. For this, you are in a precious minority and on the correct path to Mastery. It is simply your thinking that needs enhancement. This will happen in due course if you open your mind to clear thought.

So again I am admonished to open my mind. How surprising. Also how odd that you, Soc, CYOF and such continually admonish others to do that which you seem so incapable of doing yourselves.

The examples I put forward were intended to show that each trader may have different demons to conquer. Maybe there are some that have this "correct thinking" you mention down pat however they lack the discipline to implement the thinking on a regular basis. Perhaps they think correctly but allow their emotions to then cloud this thinking.

I do not argue that correct thinking(as nebulous and ill defined as that term is since none of you wish to actually define it) is not needed for success. I only argue that you all seem so closed minded to the idea that this may not be the most important factor for each trader. What is important to one may not be to another for the simple reason that it is second nature to them or that they have found a method that does not require it or simply because their goals are different and to attain those goals they need not concern themselves with what is important to you.

Your inability to accept that this may be true shows a closed mindedness of your own.

Further to that the claims being made by CYOF in particular show a distinct lack of clear thinking and call into question his entire claim to being a fount of knowledge and wisdom. CYOF mentions having met 3 expert traders. On this basis alone he is ready to claim that any method not used by those 3 people is crap and rubbish. How is that clear thinking? Anyone with the ability to rationally and logically think would realise that 3 is a very small sample group to be basing such a claim upon. I have met more than 3 traders that do consistantly make between 50 and 100% per year using those methods he derides. Certainly not the 2-5% daily that CYOF is claiming(without any substantiation mind you), but still a very comfortable living. So before he should insult others he should perhaps have a look at himself first.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[CYOF]

Soc, you and your ilk never seem to get it do you?

Imagine if you would an astrologer or tarot card reader. Sitting there divining the future through their arcane knowledge. Telling all who will listen that they "operate from a frame work of expectancy and near certainty". They refuse to actually say anything verifiable. Simply give vague, riddle like answers to any questions. Then should anyone dare to disagree with them, or ask for further clarification, even in the politest of ways, they will reply with thinly veiled insults, condescending words and an arrogant attitude and proclaim they will not spoonfeed this valuable information to anyone. Claiming only people of superior intellect, knowledge or understanding will be of sufficiently "high level" to understand their words of apparent wisdom. Only those open minded enough will be able to grasp the deeper meaning of their words, etc etc etc.

If this were the case you would very likely(and quite rightly) be denouncing them as a charlaton.

This is the same game you are playing.

You both claim "thinking correctly" is the most important part. Neither will give any verifiable, concrete indication as to how to think correctly, what correct thinking entails, how anyone else who disagrees with you is not thinking correctly or any other such thing. You claim to have near certainty in analysing the markets but refuse to back that claim up in any way, again insulting any who dare ask you to.

You see the funniest part is that you may very well have the keys to the kingdom. That is the keys that will let you into the kingdom. You mistakenly believe this is the only key. See, thinking correctly is obviously what you feel is the most important part of trading. Is it because this is what you may have struggled with most when learning to become a trader? Is this the aspect that gave you difficulty?

Ask another trader and he may tell you discipline to do what he knows he must is the most important part of trading. For him this mystical key of yours is no good because he already knows how to think correctly, he struggles with getting himself to actually do it.

Another trader may tell you controlling his emotions is the most important part of trading. Again he may know exactly how to think, be disciplined in his approach but the moment he is in a trade his emotions run riot. So again your key is no good to him. No amount of supercilious, condescending "polite rudeness" from you will lead him in a round about way to find the key he needs because your key isn't the one he needs.

My point is, just because you and CYOF both have apparently found a method that works for you, it doesn't mean yours is the only way. It doesn't even mean what you think is important must be important to all, or even to one single other. Yours and CYOF's inability to grasp this simple truth shows you to not be as perfect as you so often claim to be. Your inability to distinguish between a "truth" and a "belief" also shows a distinct lack of critical thinking and reasoning.

And btw, as I have said before, I have no reason to doubt you are not as successful a trader as you claim to be. Certainly more successful than I. When it comes to poker though, I would give you any odds you care to name that I have far more experience and success at the game than you. Of course as I have no way of proving this I know and recognise it as a belief and not a truth.

Cheers,
PKFFW

It does not matter what you think - or me, or Socrates, or what anyone else thinks for that matter!

It is all about the ability to understand what needs to be understood.

How does one go about that understanding, many will say it is better to follow the mainstream, as if the majority know what is best.

This, however, has shown throughout History to be a big mistake - and if anyone want's to learn more about that, then they know what they must do!

Do you not see any value in the "GLIMPSE" I posted - which is obvious not a trading book - or do you just dismiss it because I posted it - I been "another one who has taken a similar view as Socrates"?

 

[CYOF]

My gambling is going extremely well. Once you realise exactly what it is you're doing one can look at odds and probabilities and.....do extremely well.

How's your "trading" doing, or am I mixing you up with someone else ?

Seasons greetings,

Glad to hear that!

I am not trading at the moment - will resume in 07 as planned - although my original plan may now have to change slighlty - which I am sure is of no interest to you.

I do not like, btw, mentioning family members, as this can be very emotional for some people, so I will leave it at that and not stress this point any further - in other words, I call a spade a spade.

 

[CYOF]

So again I am admonished to open my mind. How surprising. Also how odd that you, Soc, CYOF and such continually admonish others to do that which you seem so incapable of doing yourselves.

The examples I put forward were intended to show that each trader may have different demons to conquer. Maybe there are some that have this "correct thinking" you mention down pat however they lack the discipline to implement the thinking on a regular basis. Perhaps they think correctly but allow their emotions to then cloud this thinking.

I do not argue that correct thinking(as nebulous and ill defined as that term is since none of you wish to actually define it) is not needed for success. I only argue that you all seem so closed minded to the idea that this may not be the most important factor for each trader. What is important to one may not be to another for the simple reason that it is second nature to them or that they have found a method that does not require it or simply because their goals are different and to attain those goals they need not concern themselves with what is important to you.

Your inability to accept that this may be true shows a closed mindedness of your own.

Further to that the claims being made by CYOF in particular show a distinct lack of clear thinking and call into question his entire claim to being a fount of knowledge and wisdom. CYOF mentions having met 3 expert traders. On this basis alone he is ready to claim that any method not used by those 3 people is crap and rubbish. How is that clear thinking? Anyone with the ability to rationally and logically think would realise that 3 is a very small sample group to be basing such a claim upon. I have met more than 3 traders that do consistantly make between 50 and 100% per year using those methods he derides. Certainly not the 2-5% daily that CYOF is claiming(without any substantiation mind you), but still a very comfortable living. So before he should insult others he should perhaps have a look at himself first.

Cheers,
PKFFW

You again fail to grasp the meaning of words -which you ae not to be blamed for, as the reasons have been clearly stated.

Do you honestly believe that there are not traders out there that can make large amounts of money in a very short time?

Do you also honestly believe that theses traders use textbook trading methods to obtain the results?

Stop and think - and I mean really think about what you are saying - and do not let you emotions cloud your judgement - remember, after all, you are only talking to a screen - this is one of the sad realities of todays' world -not like in the past when real knowledge was acquired through direct dialogue.

But, the modern age is here, and we must face reality, but to ignore the past is to ignore the future.

I must get my daughter ready for school now - have a nice morning and watch the driving.

 

[PKFFW]

It does not matter what you think - or me, or Socrates, or what anyone else thinks for that matter!

It is all about the ability to understand what needs to be understood.

How does one go about that understanding, many will say it is better to follow the mainstream, as if the majority know what is best.

This, however, has shown throughout History to be a big mistake - and if anyone want's to learn more about that, then they know what they must do!

Do you not see any value in the "GLIMPSE" I posted - which is obvious not a trading book - or do you just dismiss it because I posted it - I been "another one who has taken a similar view as Socrates"?

I do not dismiss anything I read based solely on who posted it. I have even replied to Soc on occassion that I have found something of value in his posts.

What I dismiss is your assertion that because you believe something this is proof that that something is true. We are not talking about scientific laws here. The law of gravity and such. We are talking about concepts and ideas. Things influenced by our point of view, upbringing, culture, experience etc etc etc. Your resorting to insults, ridicule and arrogantly dismissing of any who disagree is offensive. Not to mention it shows a clear lack of thinking on your part whether you wish to admit that to yourself or not. This obvious lack of "correct thinking" is the reason I dismiss your posts regarding that subject

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[PKFFW]

You again fail to grasp the meaning of words -which you ae not to be blamed for, as the reasons have been clearly stated.

What reasons are those? The only reasons you have given is your belief that I want to be spoonfed, your assertion that I am lazy simply because I admit to not seeing enough value in your posts to warrant reading all of them and your very vague reference to your own assumption that I believe the masses have the right idea when it comes to trading.

Do you honestly believe that there are not traders out there that can make large amounts of money in a very short time?

Do you also honestly believe that theses traders use textbook trading methods to obtain the results?

I believe there are traders out there that can make large amounts of money in a very short time. I believe some of them use methods they keep very secret. I believe there are others that use what you call "textbook trading methods".

As I mentioned in my post, I have met more than three traders. I have met a number of traders who use "textbook trading methods". Many of them have made 50-100% per year for a number of years. They were quite willing to show me as much proof as I wished of this. I admit 50-100% per year is not as much as your 2-5% a day. However, firstly they were willing to back up their claim. Secondly they have been doing it for a number of years.

Further to that your statements went to your belief that those methods did not work. As is your modus operendii, you did not clarify what you meant by "work". I would say 50-100% per year, being 2-5 times the average performance of most world stock markets could certainly be classed as "working". Of course if your definition is attaining 2-5% daily then I guess they don't work. Of course then we get back to the fact that those traders were willing to back up their claims and you are unwilling to back up your claim of 2-5% per day.

Whilst on the subject, lets just think about that 2-5% per day. Lets say you start with a modest $500. You get your 2% per day. Then lets say you live off half your earnings and compound just half. I wont go into the math in detail (wouldn't want to spoonfeed you afterall). At the end of one year your account would total $18,891. Not bad for starting with only $500. By year two your account now totals $713,766. Year 3 and your account is looking healthy at $26,968,530. Of course as starspacer mentions anyone can get lucky for a while. We are looking at the long term so as a good long term consistantly profitable trader we need to look at years 4 and 5. Year 4 and your account is $1,018,963,682. Year 5 I reckon you could retire on an account balance of $38,499,947,366. I wont even get into after year 5 but suffice to say you could probably buy the world a couple years later if you liked.

Now I do believe someone can make alot of money trading and do so pretty darn quickly. Seriously though, if you are talking about long term consistant profits(as starspacer claimed) you don't expect anyone to believe you are making 2-5% daily over the long term do you?

Stop and think - and I mean really think about what you are saying - and do not let you emotions cloud your judgement - remember, after all, you are only talking to a screen - this is one of the sad realities of todays' world -not like in the past when real knowledge was acquired through direct dialogue.

But, the modern age is here, and we must face reality, but to ignore the past is to ignore the future.

I must get my daughter ready for school now - have a nice morning and watch the driving.

I am not the one getting emotional. You are the one resorting to insults, arrogance, condescending superciliousness and pettiness. Not once have I insulted you personally. While on the other hand you have questioned my intelligence simply because I disagree with you, claim I am lazy simply because I don't see any reason to go back over 80 odd pages and read all your posts and indicated your assumption that I will never understand your point of view because I am too closed minded.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[CYOF]

Firstly, a certain member has expressed his opinion, and that is noted, and all I will say, at this point in time, is "have no fear"

I will respond to you post PK, following my brown bread and strawberry jam, and I might also have a fried egg and some beans.

I was going to use invisible mode, but hell, I have nothing to hide. I will post as I can, and hide nothing as it is against all that I believe in - so I can't do it.

Cupla noimead.

Slainte

I am just waiting for a Paddy to arrive and start correcting my Irish - for it has been a long time

 

[firewalker99]

Whilst on the subject, lets just think about that 2-5% per day. Lets say you start with a modest $500. You get your 2% per day. Then lets say you live off half your earnings and compound just half. I wont go into the math in detail (wouldn't want to spoonfeed you afterall). At the end of one year your account would total $18,891. Not bad for starting with only $500. By year two your account now totals $713,766. Year 3 and your account is looking healthy at $26,968,530. Of course as starspacer mentions anyone can get lucky for a while. We are looking at the long term so as a good long term consistantly profitable trader we need to look at years 4 and 5. Year 4 and your account is $1,018,963,682. Year 5 I reckon you could retire on an account balance of $38,499,947,366. I wont even get into after year 5 but suffice to say you could probably buy the world a couple years later if you liked.

Now I do believe someone can make alot of money trading and do so pretty darn quickly. Seriously though, if you are talking about long term consistant profits(as starspacer claimed) you don't expect anyone to believe you are making 2-5% daily over the long term do you?

Those numbers look amazing, don't they
But often people forgot two things:

1) Those who start trading a strategy with - let's assume 2-5% a day - will have it much easier making those profits using small money as opposed to the big guns. Try unloading 5000 lots in a liquid market as the DAX that on average has about 1000 lots in a 5-min bar (although last couple of days have been more quiet). You would have to develop a different strategy, a different method. That's why those who play big money (or "the smart money" as you wish) have to play it through accumulation and distribution. But I'm sure that anybody who gets to that point won't be unhappy about it, because by the time he does he will have gained already sustantiable.

2) Unless you trade FX, you can't compound 2-5% each day. That would assume that you can "invest" each penny you gained, but you obviously can't do that playing with futures. You need to have margin. So to buy an extra lot, you first need to gain as much as the margin requirement for that particular contract. Say you were to trade DAX 1 lot (margin around 7000EUR) and had a strategy that yields 3% a day, you would theoretically be able to double your account size in about 24 days. On the other hand, not compouding the 3% you would on average make 210EUR/day and have doubled your account after 33 days. Which is quite a significant difference. But all that won't matter once you are trading 10 lots as the difference will be so small you won't notice.

3) What is your risk going to be if you want to attain 2-5% a day? Are you willing to risk 5% on a single trade (I didn't say you need to). But also keep in mind that a 25% drawdown needs a 33% recovery to be back where you started...

But all that hasn't got much to do with thinking correctly (but then again what part of this thread has? :|), so I'll just shut up.

 

[CYOF]

Oh PK,

Today is a bad day, finishing up at 11:45 and child minding as the other half is off spending the hard earned dosh.

BTW, I had beans, fried egg, sauted potatoes, white pudding and brown bread with strawberry jam, which I am still trying to finish

I am not going to dissect - as sometimes it is not warranted - but I will post the following for consideration:

1. Why do people post what they do, and then change, and then change again?
2. Why do we see, all of a sudden, a sudden burst of posts, which result in, for a better word, a war of words.
3. Why are some better with words than others?
4. Why do some read, and not post at all?
5. Why are we attracted to posts that are, to say the least, controversial?

1. What do we really think when we are posting?
2. What are we trying to achieve by posting?
3. What way will it influence us?
4. What is the benefits of such posting.
5. What are we going to do next?

Slainte,

 

[CYOF]

Those numbers look amazing, don't they
But often people forgot two things:

1) Those who start trading a strategy with - let's assume 2-5% a day - will have it much easier making those profits using small money as opposed to the big guns. Try unloading 5000 lots in a liquid market as the DAX that on average has about 1000 lots in a 5-min bar (although last couple of days have been more quiet). You would have to develop a different strategy, a different method. That's why those who play big money (or "the smart money" as you wish) have to play it through accumulation and distribution. But I'm sure that anybody who gets to that point won't be unhappy about it, because by the time he does he will have gained already sustantiable.

2) Unless you trade FX, you can't compound 2-5% each day. That would assume that you can "invest" each penny you gained, but you obviously can't do that playing with futures. You need to have margin. So to buy an extra lot, you first need to gain as much as the margin requirement for that particular contract. Say you were to trade DAX 1 lot (margin around 7000EUR) and had a strategy that yields 3% a day, you would theoretically be able to double your account size in about 24 days. On the other hand, not compouding the 3% you would on average make 210EUR/day and have doubled your account after 33 days. Which is quite a significant difference. But all that won't matter once you are trading 10 lots as the difference will be so small you won't notice.

But all that hasn't got much to do with thinking correctly, so I'll just shut up.

Very good points FW - and worth a logical responce.

1. Reality - everything that is considered must be approached from a realistic viewpoint - else - it is a futile effort.

2. Common sense - some markets will offer greater opportunity than others -you must know what the available opportunities are prior to committing all of ones'effort. You must also know when the best opportunities present themselves, else, it will also be a futile effort.

3. You can start compounding when ever you like - for instance, if I was to say to my wife, hey, you went X-Mas shopping last week, why the hell are you going again today, this would mean a lot, and I mean a lot, of LOSING daytrades. But you know what - peace and quiet is worth any amount of money

So, you need to be realistic and not dream, you need to apply common sense and acquire the relevant skills for the selected "market", and last, but not least, you need to be frugal, and I won't insult your intelligence this time by posting a dictionary reference.

Slainte,

 

[SOCRATES]

Soc, you and your ilk never seem to get it do you?

Imagine if you would an astrologer or tarot card reader. Sitting there divining the future through their arcane knowledge. Telling all who will listen that they "operate from a frame work of expectancy and near certainty". They refuse to actually say anything verifiable. Simply give vague, riddle like answers to any questions. Then should anyone dare to disagree with them, or ask for further clarification, even in the politest of ways, they will reply with thinly veiled insults, condescending words and an arrogant attitude and proclaim they will not spoonfeed this valuable information to anyone. Claiming only people of superior intellect, knowledge or understanding will be of sufficiently "high level" to understand their words of apparent wisdom. Only those open minded enough will be able to grasp the deeper meaning of their words, etc etc etc.

If this were the case you would very likely(and quite rightly) be denouncing them as a charlaton.

This is the same game you are playing.

You both claim "thinking correctly" is the most important part. Neither will give any verifiable, concrete indication as to how to think correctly, what correct thinking entails, how anyone else who disagrees with you is not thinking correctly or any other such thing. You claim to have near certainty in analysing the markets but refuse to back that claim up in any way, again insulting any who dare ask you to.

You see the funniest part is that you may very well have the keys to the kingdom. That is the keys that will let you into the kingdom. You mistakenly believe this is the only key. See, thinking correctly is obviously what you feel is the most important part of trading. Is it because this is what you may have struggled with most when learning to become a trader? Is this the aspect that gave you difficulty?

Ask another trader and he may tell you discipline to do what he knows he must is the most important part of trading. For him this mystical key of yours is no good because he already knows how to think correctly, he struggles with getting himself to actually do it.

Another trader may tell you controlling his emotions is the most important part of trading. Again he may know exactly how to think, be disciplined in his approach but the moment he is in a trade his emotions run riot. So again your key is no good to him. No amount of supercilious, condescending "polite rudeness" from you will lead him in a round about way to find the key he needs because your key isn't the one he needs.

My point is, just because you and CYOF both have apparently found a method that works for you, it doesn't mean yours is the only way. It doesn't even mean what you think is important must be important to all, or even to one single other. Yours and CYOF's inability to grasp this simple truth shows you to not be as perfect as you so often claim to be. Your inability to distinguish between a "truth" and a "belief" also shows a distinct lack of critical thinking and reasoning.

And btw, as I have said before, I have no reason to doubt you are not as successful a trader as you claim to be. Certainly more successful than I. When it comes to poker though, I would give you any odds you care to name that I have far more experience and success at the game than you. Of course as I have no way of proving this I know and recognise it as a belief and not a truth.

Cheers,
PKFFW

You need not have written such a long post.

The first line of your post suffices.

We are in the absolute minority and not the general majority, and we are in this category because we think outside the box.

This does not mean that we are collectively thinking, in unison, that is, shoulder to shoulder, and inside each others pockets, but we are thinking outside the box.

This causes us to immediately recognise each others faculties. Immediately.

It is a mutual facultative recognition excercise that you are witnessing, and not a ganging up against anyone...........In fact we are the victims of ganging up against us.

It is as if these faculties have to occupy separate mountain tops to thwart the ganging up process.

And these faculties, that occupy separate mountain tops even though they slightly differ, serve to polarise us in terms of what is mainstream.

We then have to resort to a sort of semaphore from mountain top to mountain top, as we perfectly understand what it is we are talking about because it makes perfect sense to us, as a very small minority.

And because we are an absolute minority, the majority, who do not understand......and........ who do not understand that they do not understand..... respond unfavourably and with disrespect, and rudeness and agression and other negative sentiments.

This obligates us to be even more circumspect as to what we are prepared to discuss in public and in what way.

I know that to discuss openly in public only attracts vitriol and envy.

Therefore the main bulk of discussion and exchange of ideas has to take place in private, away from prying eyes, in a Star Chamber environment and not an Public Auditorium environment.

This is regrettable but essential.

 

[andycan]

Would you like to put forward your thoughts on this quote, Andy?

my apologies for the delay


CYOF
it refers to simply not to just look with your eyes but use all your senses
when that happens then you not only 'see' but you have vision

 

[SOCRATES]

my apologies for the delay


CYOF
it refers to simply not to just look with your eyes but use all your senses
when that happens then you not only 'see' but you have vision

May I ?

"multidimensional vision":cheesy: beyond looking.