CKB - How do you explain the many Muslims who do condemn terrorism?
How do you explain that true Islam also condemns violence?
How does anyone explain that in the 21st century people still follow these holy books that were really written to keep the people of their time 'in-line' and controllable to the powers that were at the time - or else face the wrath of God or some other Deity?
The facts are that both the Bible AND the Koran contain many passages that contradict other passages. This is the key flaw of all religions. If you read deeply enough into any of them, you can find some line of text that will promote any idea you care to mention - All you have to do is put it into another context.
Lets face it - most wars as we know are religious. It's not the God that is being fought over, it's the interpretation of how that same God should be worshipped that causes the disagreement.
We will never get anywhere discussing different positions. We must look at the other sides interests and negotiate from there.
How do you explain that true Islam also condemns violence?
How does anyone explain that in the 21st century people still follow these holy books that were really written to keep the people of their time 'in-line' and controllable to the powers that were at the time - or else face the wrath of God or some other Deity?
The facts are that both the Bible AND the Koran contain many passages that contradict other passages. This is the key flaw of all religions. If you read deeply enough into any of them, you can find some line of text that will promote any idea you care to mention - All you have to do is put it into another context.
Lets face it - most wars as we know are religious. It's not the God that is being fought over, it's the interpretation of how that same God should be worshipped that causes the disagreement.
We will never get anywhere discussing different positions. We must look at the other sides interests and negotiate from there.
BBB: Much of what you say in your last posting makes good sense. But I must disagree with your first two points.
CKB - How do you explain the many Muslims who do condemn terrorism?
Where are these "many Muslims who do condemn terrorism " ? I know and have met a great number of Muslims and very, very few of them condemn terrorism - and even fewer (practically zero - would openly state in public that they condemn terrorism. I believe it is a great fallacy to say that only a minority of Muslims support terrorism. If this is not so, then why do we not hear more leading Muslims openly declare their condemnation of the brutal acts carried out in the name of Islam.
How do you explain that true Islam also condemns violence?
Of course this depends what you mean by 'true' Islam. But I suspect that your view would be hotly disputed by many Islamic leaders such as Abu 'The Hook' Hamza.
CKB - How do you explain the many Muslims who do condemn terrorism?
Where are these "many Muslims who do condemn terrorism " ? I know and have met a great number of Muslims and very, very few of them condemn terrorism - and even fewer (practically zero - would openly state in public that they condemn terrorism. I believe it is a great fallacy to say that only a minority of Muslims support terrorism. If this is not so, then why do we not hear more leading Muslims openly declare their condemnation of the brutal acts carried out in the name of Islam.
How do you explain that true Islam also condemns violence?
Of course this depends what you mean by 'true' Islam. But I suspect that your view would be hotly disputed by many Islamic leaders such as Abu 'The Hook' Hamza.
Car Key Boi
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Re: Hmmm
SHALL WE DISCUSS WHY ISLAM WAS ONCE FAR SUPERIOR TO EUROTARD CIVILIZATION (USA DIDN'T EXIST AT THIS POINT) AND WHY IT IS NOW CHOKING ON OUR DUST?
FACT THAT SUX # 27,299: THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE INHERENT IN ISLAM THAT PRECLUDES IT FROM MAKING ADVANCES WHEN THE FUNDAMENTALIST TARDS ENFORCE ITS TEACHINGS TO THE LETTER
A CASE IN POINT: MUZIC
THE SUFIS OF EGYPT, TUNISIA, IRAN, MOROCCO AND ESPECIALLY TURKEY, CREATED A RICH TRADITION. IN THE 9TH CENTURY, SOME PHILIOSOPHER BOI WHO WENT BY THE NAME OF AL-KINDI (DO NEVER TEST) WROTE THAT MEASURED RHYTHM WAS KNOWN TO MUSLIM TARDS CENTURIES BEFORE IT BECAME CODIFIED IN EUROTARDLAND
BUT HERE'S THE RUB
THE ISLAMIC LEGAL MANUAL OF SUNNI ORTHODOXY (CALLED THE "RELIANCE OF THE TRAVELER" - AGAIN, DO NEVER TEST THE CKB) QUOTES MOHAMMED THUS:
THE TALIBAN HAVE ENFORCED THIS BAN ON MUZIC, AND THEY HAVE THE SCRIPTURE TO JUSTIFY IT
ALSO, KHOMENI BOI SAID:
THERE IS AN ANTI-INTELLECTUAL STRAIN IN MUCH OF ISLAM. THERE IS NO ACADEMIC FREEDOM IN THEIR UNIVERSITIES
AND ANOTHER REASON WHY ISLAM IS CHOKING ON OUR DUST IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHUT OUT HALF OF THEIR POPULATION (YEAH, I'M REFERING TO THEIR WIMMIN)
UNDER ISLAM, WIMMIN ARE CLEARLY SEEN AS INFERIOR TO BOIS
OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE ALSO TREATED WIMMIN LIKE DIRT IN THE OLD DAYS, BUT THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY AND THEY HAVE SINCE LEARNT TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT. ISLAM HAS NOT
THERE ISN'T A SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY THAT AN ARAB GURL CAN
1. VOTE
2. DRIVE A CAR
3. FILE FOR DIVORCE ON HER OWN ACCORD
4. NOT COVER HER HAIR
5. FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE COPS FOR SPOUSAL ABUSE AND ACTUALLY HAVE THE COPS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
MORE QUOTES FROM THE KORAN
"Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women" (Sura 2:228).
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them" (Sura 4:34).
"Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses; so that if either of them commit an error, the other will remember" (Sura 2:282)
"Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them" (Sura 4:34).
THIS IS NOT FROM "BIASED" WESTERN MEDIA. THIS IS FROM THE KORAN WHICH YUO MUST BELIEVE, IF YUO ARE A TRUE MUSLIM, TO BE THE WORDS OF GOD HIMSELF
- CAR KEY BOI,
HAS TRAVELLED TO OVER 150 COUNTRIES AND SQUIRTED INTO OVER 200 WIMMIN OF ALL NATIONALITIES, DIGTBK!
Pervaz said:
SHALL WE DISCUSS WHY ISLAM WAS ONCE FAR SUPERIOR TO EUROTARD CIVILIZATION (USA DIDN'T EXIST AT THIS POINT) AND WHY IT IS NOW CHOKING ON OUR DUST?
FACT THAT SUX # 27,299: THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE INHERENT IN ISLAM THAT PRECLUDES IT FROM MAKING ADVANCES WHEN THE FUNDAMENTALIST TARDS ENFORCE ITS TEACHINGS TO THE LETTER
A CASE IN POINT: MUZIC
THE SUFIS OF EGYPT, TUNISIA, IRAN, MOROCCO AND ESPECIALLY TURKEY, CREATED A RICH TRADITION. IN THE 9TH CENTURY, SOME PHILIOSOPHER BOI WHO WENT BY THE NAME OF AL-KINDI (DO NEVER TEST) WROTE THAT MEASURED RHYTHM WAS KNOWN TO MUSLIM TARDS CENTURIES BEFORE IT BECAME CODIFIED IN EUROTARDLAND
BUT HERE'S THE RUB
THE ISLAMIC LEGAL MANUAL OF SUNNI ORTHODOXY (CALLED THE "RELIANCE OF THE TRAVELER" - AGAIN, DO NEVER TEST THE CKB) QUOTES MOHAMMED THUS:
THE TALIBAN HAVE ENFORCED THIS BAN ON MUZIC, AND THEY HAVE THE SCRIPTURE TO JUSTIFY IT
ALSO, KHOMENI BOI SAID:
THERE IS AN ANTI-INTELLECTUAL STRAIN IN MUCH OF ISLAM. THERE IS NO ACADEMIC FREEDOM IN THEIR UNIVERSITIES
AND ANOTHER REASON WHY ISLAM IS CHOKING ON OUR DUST IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHUT OUT HALF OF THEIR POPULATION (YEAH, I'M REFERING TO THEIR WIMMIN)
UNDER ISLAM, WIMMIN ARE CLEARLY SEEN AS INFERIOR TO BOIS
OTHER RELIGIONS HAVE ALSO TREATED WIMMIN LIKE DIRT IN THE OLD DAYS, BUT THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY AND THEY HAVE SINCE LEARNT TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT. ISLAM HAS NOT
THERE ISN'T A SINGLE COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST TODAY THAT AN ARAB GURL CAN
1. VOTE
2. DRIVE A CAR
3. FILE FOR DIVORCE ON HER OWN ACCORD
4. NOT COVER HER HAIR
5. FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE COPS FOR SPOUSAL ABUSE AND ACTUALLY HAVE THE COPS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
MORE QUOTES FROM THE KORAN
"Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women" (Sura 2:228).
"Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them" (Sura 4:34).
"Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses; so that if either of them commit an error, the other will remember" (Sura 2:282)
"Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them" (Sura 4:34).
THIS IS NOT FROM "BIASED" WESTERN MEDIA. THIS IS FROM THE KORAN WHICH YUO MUST BELIEVE, IF YUO ARE A TRUE MUSLIM, TO BE THE WORDS OF GOD HIMSELF
- CAR KEY BOI,
HAS TRAVELLED TO OVER 150 COUNTRIES AND SQUIRTED INTO OVER 200 WIMMIN OF ALL NATIONALITIES, DIGTBK!
Car Key Boi
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BBB said:
"TRUE" ISLAM CONDONES VIOLENCE. LIKE I SAID, THE EXTREMISTS CAN POINT DIRECTLY TO THE KORAN AND JUSTIFY THEIR POSITIONS
TWI
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OK CKB I now understand justification for blowing the hell out of every man, women and child who has the faintest connection with Islam. It all makes perfect sense. Particularly since our own book is better than theirs.
"Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death."(Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
" They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. " (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
"Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death."(Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
" They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. " (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
CKB,
I think you could be a little more self critical. Christian countries eg the united states have killed millions of innocent people during the 20 th century, many more than any islamic country has ever done. Thats an undeniable fact. An another undeniable truth is that many people also think that the USA has been more heavily involved in state sponsored terrorism than any other country in recent decades. For starters just look at the illegal occupations in palestine and iraq both of which are directly/indirectly US sponsored. And you wonder why muslims are enraged by brutal american tactics. Personally I am more worried about the rise of fundamentalism in the west than in the east
By all means bash muslims if you are simply looking for an excuse to provoke fear and resentment in a law abiding minority group (like the nazis did with the jews) but I think you will find that theres much more terrorism closer to home, right under your nose if you care to look. Actually, if we are not careful here we might end up doing to muslims exactly what the nazis did with the jews in the 1930s and 40s, all of which was also based on unfounded propaganda that somehow managed to fool the entire German people. God help us if history repeats itself.
I think you could be a little more self critical. Christian countries eg the united states have killed millions of innocent people during the 20 th century, many more than any islamic country has ever done. Thats an undeniable fact. An another undeniable truth is that many people also think that the USA has been more heavily involved in state sponsored terrorism than any other country in recent decades. For starters just look at the illegal occupations in palestine and iraq both of which are directly/indirectly US sponsored. And you wonder why muslims are enraged by brutal american tactics. Personally I am more worried about the rise of fundamentalism in the west than in the east
By all means bash muslims if you are simply looking for an excuse to provoke fear and resentment in a law abiding minority group (like the nazis did with the jews) but I think you will find that theres much more terrorism closer to home, right under your nose if you care to look. Actually, if we are not careful here we might end up doing to muslims exactly what the nazis did with the jews in the 1930s and 40s, all of which was also based on unfounded propaganda that somehow managed to fool the entire German people. God help us if history repeats itself.
Sorry but the US doesn't illegally occupy Palestine.
The state of Israel was created by the United Nations.
I'm not saying that it was a good decision by the UN but with the Middle East I do not know where the answer lies.
One thing I do know is that it needs a leap of faith on both sides.
Israel should stop the assinations and Hammas etc should cease the suiside bombings.
JonnyT
The state of Israel was created by the United Nations.
I'm not saying that it was a good decision by the UN but with the Middle East I do not know where the answer lies.
One thing I do know is that it needs a leap of faith on both sides.
Israel should stop the assinations and Hammas etc should cease the suiside bombings.
JonnyT
tradesmart
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I dont think we're the ones to worry about.
The Nazis built the Ghetto's by building walls around jewish neighbourhoods.
Israel is building large walls around Palestinian neighbourhoods
The Nazis would punish not only the Jew, but also his family
Israel will punish not only the terrorist, but his family also.
Nazis started to demolish jewish residences in order to move them out of the areas
Israel are demolishing Palestinian villages every day in order to make room for their own.
Ok, I'll admit the 'extremes' of these crimes are not to the extent of the Nazi's, but the nature of the attacks and crimes are exactly the same. Thats what appals me - and we let them get away with it.
Sure some Muslims are a pain in the ass, and the west is equally as obnoxious at times. I really don't think anyone can point the finger at anyone anymore.
Anyone got any solutions?
Mr. Charts
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Tolerance + compromise= peace
Intolerance + rigidity = war and pain
Exhaustion = uneasy peace = first step
Hope and looking forward, not back = better future for everyone
Simplistic, yes,
naive, no,
unrealistic, no.
Why so?
Because that is the basis of progress and conflict resolution.
Richard
Intolerance + rigidity = war and pain
Exhaustion = uneasy peace = first step
Hope and looking forward, not back = better future for everyone
Simplistic, yes,
naive, no,
unrealistic, no.
Why so?
Because that is the basis of progress and conflict resolution.
Richard
Car Key Boi
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twalker said:
NO ARGUMENT FROM THE CKB ABOUT THE BIBLE ALSO BEING INHERENTLY HOMOPHOBIC, INTOLLERANT OF OTHER RELIGIONS BLAH
BUT HOW MANY NATIONS IN THE WEST ENFORCE ANY OF THOSE SCRIPTURES THAT YUO POSTED?
DIDN'T THINK SO
LIKE I SAID, CHRISTIAN TARDS HAVE, FOR THE MOST PART, CLEANED UP THEIR ACT
I KNOW THAT A BIBLE BASHER IS CURRENTLY PREZ OF THE US, BUT HE'S JUST A PREZ. CONTARY TO POPULAR OPINION, THE PREZ OF USA DOES NOT RUN THE USA. CONGRESS DOES, AND THEY AIN'T ALL NEO CON BIBLE BASHING CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH TARDS
AND EVEN IF THEY WERE, THERE'S THE SMALL MATTER OF THE CONSTITUTION. BUSH AND ANY OTHER BIBLE BASHING PREZ WOULD SOON BE GIVING THE SH!TCAN IF THEY TRIED TO LEGALLY ENFORCE ALL THE "TEACHINGS" OF THE BIBLE
ALSO, KNOW THIS
DON'T MISTAKE THE CAR KEY BOI FOR SOME CHRISTIAN TARD WHO'S GOT IN IT FOR MUSLIMS. I'M A 100% ATHEIST TARD (WHO HAPPENS TO BE MARRIED TO A HINDU TARD) I AIN'T GOT TIME FOR ANY RELIGIOUS TARDS (CHRISTIAN, JEWISH, MUSLIM, HINDU, SACROMENTO KINGS FANS, WHATEVER) WHO TRY TO FORCE THEIR RELIGION ON OTHERS
D N T
- CAR KEY BOI,
JUST POSTING FACTS, NOT MY PROBLEM IF THEY HAPPEN TO BE FTS (FACTS THAT SUX)
TWI
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This is worth considering
Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
George Monbiot
Tuesday April 20, 2004
The UK Guardian
And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html
Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
George Monbiot
Tuesday April 20, 2004
The UK Guardian
And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html
.
I know I said i wouldnt join in again (its slow today!)
CKB - "...THE PREZ OF USA DOES NOT RUN THE USA. "
The "prez of usa" did not ask the senate to go to war with iraq - he just went - Hence now theres these committees and hearings - sort of barndoor-horse-bolted situation !
I know I said i wouldnt join in again (its slow today!)
CKB - "...THE PREZ OF USA DOES NOT RUN THE USA. "
The "prez of usa" did not ask the senate to go to war with iraq - he just went - Hence now theres these committees and hearings - sort of barndoor-horse-bolted situation !
Car Key Boi
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Pervaz said:
MOST OF THE DEMOTARDS IN THE SENATE VOTED IN FAVOR OF GOING TO WAR WITH IRAQ
THE SENATE PASSED THE MOTION 77-23
NEXT TIME, ACT LIKE YUO KNOW
-CAR KEY BOI,
NOT A GAME YUO CAN WIN / DO NEVER TEST
Doesn't this take the biscuit !!
Reported in today's newspaper.
"Fanatical Muslim cleric Abu "The Hook" Hamza has been granted thousands of pounds in legal aid to fund his fight to stay in Britain.
The hate filled preacher - who is wanted in the U.S. and Yemen for suspected links with Al-Qaeda - was initially refused legal aid by the Legal Services Commission. But a judge later ordered the commission to review its decision.
[Hamza] has warned that Britons are 'sitting ducks' for suicide bombers and that terror attacks in the UK are inevitable.
His entire family are reported to be claiming some £1,000 a week in benefits.
In addition to his benefits, the taxpayer must also finance £250,000 a year to police Hamza's preaching, £500,000 for MI5 suveillance and £250,000 in legal fees to try to kick him out.
It also emerged recently that the lawyer fighting his case, Muddassar Arani, was paid £210,000 in legal aid fees last year" .
It looks like we could be a lot closer to "the black flag of Islam flying over 10 Downing St." than we thought.
Does anybody want to revise their vote ?
Reported in today's newspaper.
"Fanatical Muslim cleric Abu "The Hook" Hamza has been granted thousands of pounds in legal aid to fund his fight to stay in Britain.
The hate filled preacher - who is wanted in the U.S. and Yemen for suspected links with Al-Qaeda - was initially refused legal aid by the Legal Services Commission. But a judge later ordered the commission to review its decision.
[Hamza] has warned that Britons are 'sitting ducks' for suicide bombers and that terror attacks in the UK are inevitable.
His entire family are reported to be claiming some £1,000 a week in benefits.
In addition to his benefits, the taxpayer must also finance £250,000 a year to police Hamza's preaching, £500,000 for MI5 suveillance and £250,000 in legal fees to try to kick him out.
It also emerged recently that the lawyer fighting his case, Muddassar Arani, was paid £210,000 in legal aid fees last year" .
It looks like we could be a lot closer to "the black flag of Islam flying over 10 Downing St." than we thought.
Does anybody want to revise their vote ?
I was saddened when I read in zambuck's earlier posting of a horrific attrocity committed in the name of Islam. I have copied it below .
I remember reading about the mob of Muslims who burned the whole train in Godhra in India.....man, women and children were forced to stay inside the burning train until they all perished...
And now today we hear of another terrible act of terrorism. I refer to the bombings in Basra which left, amongst others, 16 primary school children dead.
All terrorism is bad, but when it is intentionally aimed at children, I think it takes on an even more evil dimension. Unfortunately, there are some people who do not seem to have any respect for human life, even the lives of innocent children.
Let us hope that our own children in the UK are safe.
I remember reading about the mob of Muslims who burned the whole train in Godhra in India.....man, women and children were forced to stay inside the burning train until they all perished...
And now today we hear of another terrible act of terrorism. I refer to the bombings in Basra which left, amongst others, 16 primary school children dead.
All terrorism is bad, but when it is intentionally aimed at children, I think it takes on an even more evil dimension. Unfortunately, there are some people who do not seem to have any respect for human life, even the lives of innocent children.
Let us hope that our own children in the UK are safe.
Last edited:
CAR KEY BOI,
You have let yourself down BADLY!!
You have let your veil slip.
You have shown yourself to be articulate, intelligent, and very aware of worldly events.
You have shown that you can be involved in meaningful, sensible discussion.
You have shown that you do have a deep understanding of religion and world politics.
Presumably, you have read the Koran?!!
What is it with yuo MAN?
Are you getting soft with age?
Is this the new MELLOW CKB?
Are you ill?
Do you have a problem?
Can we help you with anything?
Skim and all the female members will be devastated. Without you as the butt of their comments, who can they turn to?
You have wiped out your whole KUDOS in a few lousy posts.
This is NOT the CKB we all love to hate.
Are you an impostor?
What have you done with the real CKB?
I am lost for words...........................
(But I'm still glad I'm not on a car park near yuo!)
All the best mate, you have restored my faith.
You have let yourself down BADLY!!
You have let your veil slip.
You have shown yourself to be articulate, intelligent, and very aware of worldly events.
You have shown that you can be involved in meaningful, sensible discussion.
You have shown that you do have a deep understanding of religion and world politics.
Presumably, you have read the Koran?!!
What is it with yuo MAN?
Are you getting soft with age?
Is this the new MELLOW CKB?
Are you ill?
Do you have a problem?
Can we help you with anything?
Skim and all the female members will be devastated. Without you as the butt of their comments, who can they turn to?
You have wiped out your whole KUDOS in a few lousy posts.
This is NOT the CKB we all love to hate.
Are you an impostor?
What have you done with the real CKB?
I am lost for words...........................
(But I'm still glad I'm not on a car park near yuo!)
All the best mate, you have restored my faith.
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