FAQ How Do I get a Job Trading?

[trader_dante]

It takes perseverance to make it in this game and that perseverance is a direct result of how much you want it. But it's not just about wanting to make money it's about loving the game and wanting to win. Let's face it, most of us want to make money and the thought of it is enough of a motivator to get in early and stay late but most people want EASY money and think the market is going to supply it but it's not. That's where the love comes in. Because like any big earning career (Doctor, lawyer etc) you need to put a lot of work in and what else other than the love is going to keep you going, year after year while you try and fail and try and fail again? Losing money has a habit of making you lose faith after a time.

My personal route to a prop firm was as follows. I knew I wanted to trade for a living because ever since I had disovered the markets I was nothing short of obsessed with figuring them out. I started trading my own account with limited success but I was reading and reading - consuming everything I could and trying out different techniques from day trading to swing trading to position trading. Made a whole lot of mistakes and lost a whole lot of money but learnt a good deal about myself and more importantly what it takes to make it.

I started thinking about applying for roles as a futures trader in early 2006 but figured I was 28 years old with no previous professional trading experience, a disasterous period on my CV in which it took me 4 years to get an A and a B for my A-Levels and an incomplete degree. So I kept putting it off.

Some time in the summer of 2006 I decided that unless I tried I'd never know so I applied to a prop firm. Got invited to the assessment, sat infront of a whole lot of tests. When the time was up some of my papers were sporadically peppered with answers, some were almost blank. Suffice to say I failed the tests and got the rejection in my email later. Felt disheartened for about half an hour and then decided that no one was going to tell me I wasn't good enough. Went back to the drawing board, trading my account whilst at work in my free time and still learning. Slowly my trading progressed, my account grew and by the end of 2007 I contacted the same prop firm I was rejected from to ask them if they would reconsider based on my P&L. I made a big point of saying that if they took me it would be on my P&L and I was not sitting any more tests. They looked at my P&L and gave me a place. No tests and no real interview. It took me a year and a half from outright rejection to acceptance and now I'm here, trading for a living and doing well so far.

That was my route and I hope it shows you that you shouldn't give up if you want something enough.

 

[luckyd1976]

My personal route to a prop firm was as follows. I knew I wanted to trade for a living because ever since I had disovered the markets I was nothing short of obsessed with figuring them out. I started trading my own account with limited success but I was reading and reading - consuming everything I could and trying out different techniques from day trading to swing trading to position trading. Made a whole lot of mistakes and lost a whole lot of money but learnt a good deal about myself and more importantly what it takes to make it.

Some time in the summer of 2006 I decided that unless I tried I'd never know

Slowly my trading progressed, my account grew and by the end of 2007 I contacted the same prop firm I was rejected from to ask them if they would reconsider based on my P&L. I made a big point of saying that if they took me it would be on my P&L and I was not sitting any more tests. They looked at my P&L and gave me a place. No tests and no real interview. It took me a year and a half from outright rejection to acceptance and now I'm here, trading for a living and doing well so far.

That was my route and I hope it shows you that you shouldn't give up if you want something enough.

Thanks for sharing t_d.

Just like t_d, many of us FT traders have the same type of stories.

Started Part time trading while I was FT in the Navy stationed in Bahrain. I only started trading because I was sick of paying someone else to lose my money. Had some nice early successes and I was hooked from then on. I took some bumps along the road (DAMN NonFarmPayroll got me really good in FX one day!) But my trading styles were formed and diversified after those bumps. Unlike t_d I didnt want to go to work for the Props, but my P/L has allowed me to stay at home, keep @ my accustomed 10-14 clients, spend all my free time with my family, and do Something I truly enjoy!

So "How do I get a job Trading?" -Just go and trade, if the P/L is there the job will take care of itself.

 

[fayalac]

Holoman, respectufully, i consider the first thing you have to learn is patience, i could be wrong but it seems to me i have at least double your age and believe me that was the first thing i WAS FORCED to learn when i finished college.

 

[swedendenmark]

Hello,
Is it true that prop firms only employ trainee in their early twenties? If not, then how big is age a factor?
Thanks

 

[trader_dante]

Hello,
Is it true that prop firms only employ trainee in their early twenties? If not, then how big is age a factor?
Thanks

Age is not a factor in the slightest. I'm 29 and by no means the oldest at my firm.

 

[Phoenix669]

from what I have experienced...university degree in maths or finance, and a good network. I started my network working at a starbucks, landed me my first job published in the local paper doing daily market reports, spent a week on a medium sized forex hedge fund observing how they operate, now preparing for mathematics and economics undergrad. My blog directed at this sort of thing. Ive Blown up my equity account...It didn't differ me from fighting towards my end goal. Blowing up my account only increased my hunger for financial markets. I started reading everything I could on hedge funds, Quantitative Finance, started teaching myself calc. just to get through the book. Began trading Forex Demo, profitable. Tried Options trading, mixed results. Scalping Emini S&p 500 futures...will let you guys know tomorow

 

[weakpunter]

Re: How do I get a job trading?

hello! in IFCmarkets you can start trading with 1 $, there you can also find support in different languages and many advantages for the clients. If you are interested please visit http://www.ifcmarkets.com/en/terms/03/

Also you can start a real job: http://www.ifcmarkets.com/en/partnership/

Antosha ! the poor guy has asked how to get a trading job so you direct him to your spread betting company to open a $1 dollar account lol.........very good advice I dont think.....mudak!

My advice is try getting a broking job with a top tier institution, first learn the ropes see the clients that you work with trade for themselves and then if you find after getting some real market knowledge that trading is for you then at least you would have something to put on your CV and you can try to aply for trading position vacancies or if you are really confident then open a small trading account and see if its for you.

 

[trader_dante]

Is going to a top unversity absolutly required to get a job at a prop firm or eventually a hedge fund? Im ot looking to work at GS or anything prestigious like that just a firm that i can gain experience and further my career so one day ill be rich and retired from trading. I have the passionand drive but im going to an average university. Maybe ican get into an ivy MFE program andbecome a quant or something though.

Advice for getting a job in trading

 

[brettus]

I think it's down to personality and connections alot more than anything else. If you're good with numbers and get on well. I would recommend applying for any jobs closely linked to traders like trade support. If you're good and get on well with the traders personally and just volunteer to deal with any "work" related issues they have, you will get recognised quickly. It also helps to be very social. It really depends on the age of the traders how far you can get this way. If they are your age, they won't be interested in what you have to say. Get involved in the banter on the desk and show you can take **** and give it back. They are looking for someone like themselves. I see alot of guys working in trade support, who have the opportunity to make it on the desk, but either have no interest or don't know how to go about it. Be good at what you do and offer to help in anyway.

You can learn alot about trading working in trade support. You can learn how to use all the systems before being thrown into the deep end. You can learn boundaries for mistakes, which i think is very important. I've seen some guys go straight to the trading desk and screw up and start crying when they've lost just a few k on a mistake because they think they will lose their job. It also helps to learn how to sweep it under the carpet. One other important thing is that by working in trade support, you also build up relationships with the clients, which makes the transition easier when moving over to the trading desk. Most clients are just like you and me sitting the other side. Being friendly with them and acting like you make 2million dollars a year helps.

 

[spreader_legger]

Sounds more like a Sales job than a trading position

You can learn alot about trading working in trade support. You can learn how to use all the systems before being thrown into the deep end. You can learn boundaries for mistakes, which i think is very important. I've seen some guys go straight to the trading desk and screw up and start crying when they've lost just a few k on a mistake because they think they will lose their job. It also helps to learn how to sweep it under the carpet. One other important thing is that by working in trade support, you also build up relationships with the clients, which makes the transition easier when moving over to the trading desk. Most clients are just like you and me sitting the other side. Being friendly with them and acting like you make 2million dollars a year helps.

 

[brettus]

Sounds more like a Sales job than a trading position

I guess it depends where you work. In a bank, dealing with the clients is more a sales position. There's a few salestraders out there. Sales is just as good as trading where i work. Salespeople are more likely to go onto the roles such as CEO. Traders deal with the clients where i work. The sales people don't shout over the orders.

 

[spreader_legger]

Stands to reason really.

Got to be a good negotiator to be a CEO. But I suspect its who rather than what you know

I guess it depends where you work. In a bank, dealing with the clients is more a sales position. There's a few salestraders out there. Sales is just as good as trading where i work. Salespeople are more likely to go onto the roles such as CEO. Traders deal with the clients where i work. The sales people don't shout over the orders.

 

[brettus]

Stands to reason really.

Got to be a good negotiator to be a CEO. But I suspect its who rather than what you know

Yea sure. Generally salespeople know the business better. It's their job to understand what they are selling. Yea or dam good at what you do. They are usually just friends.
I think one guy in my place was doing a crap job so he was given head of operations instead. Still very good.

 

[holmes16]

i just wanted to mention that the CFA program is something employers seem to be looking for more and more. i'm a level III candidate, i think it's a really good program with a great cost/reward ratio. i would think that a CFA charter holder with some coding knowledge would make for a good candidate.

 

[casamapa]

Hi all,

My name is Paolo, I am new active user though I have been reading this forum for a while. I am interested in knowing what are the most useful skills or courses an HR would look at when hiring junior traders or for graduate trading recruitments.

I have been trying to get into trading and despite having worked in finance for 5 years, speaking 3 languages, have an MBA and I manage 15 people, I dont seem to have what it takes to be noticed by any HR person. I am only 29ys only, am I alreadsy too old to be a career changer?

If I study computational finance or engineering, will it be helpful to become a trader?

BTW - I already trade based on technical inidcators after one of those non-fully recognized courses that promise to teach you everything possible to be successful.

Thanks all!
Paolo

 

[timsk]

I have been trying to get into trading and despite having worked in finance for 5 years, speaking 3 languages, have an MBA and I manage 15 people, I dont seem to have what it takes to be noticed by any HR person. I am only 29ys only, am I alreadsy too old to be a career changer?

Hi Paolo,
Welcome to T2W.

You've read the thread obviously - but have you checked out the links in post #3 on P1? It's worth looking at those - as you may stumble on something that sparks your imagination. I understand your frustration with HR departments - and they can be difficult to bypass. It could just be that the posts you've applied for want someone with a double first in Economics and Physics from a top flight Uni - and anyone that doesn't fulfil that requirement gets their CV filed in the bin.

If I was in your position, I think I'd go down the direct route indicated by 'average' and try and get belly to belly with the people doing the actual job. Find out where they drink and then talk to the bar staff - as they're the ones who will most likely know who is who. It's a long shot, but it might just work. If you can stuff some statements into the hands of these people showing consistent profitability - that should help!

The son of a mate of mine wanted to get on a an architectural design course at Brunel Uni a few years ago - but didn't have the necessary academic qualifications. So, he went straight to the Uni with his portfolio and collared the design director in the car park and showed him is work on the bonnet of a car. Needless to say, he was offered a place on the spot and is now doing very well in that industry. Stories like this are increasingly rare - but they do still happen.
Best of luck,
Tim.

 

[rawrschach]

I have been trying to get into trading and despite having worked in finance for 5 years, speaking 3 languages, have an MBA and I manage 15 people, I dont seem to have what it takes to be noticed by any HR person. I am only 29ys only, am I alreadsy too old to be a career changer?

If I study computational finance or engineering, will it be helpful to become a trader?

This tells you that:

1 - working in finance doesn't matter
2 - speaking 3 languages doesn't matter
3 - having an MBA most definitely counts for nothing
4 - managing people counts for nothing

The subject you study doesn't really matter.

If you want to get into a firm (not a prop shop) the only way to stack odds in your favour is the school you go to. For trading it'd help if it was a highly quantitative modelling course, but being interesting and easy to get along with will help a lot as well.

e.g. at the LSE you would have more careers events a week than you can physically attend. These events will be attended by the people in charge of hiring, both actual traders and HR. Being a non-idiot and easy to get along with is how english majors end up in investment banking. Trading might require more than a humanities subject because firms seem to think its important to pretend to make mathematical models of mandelbrotian variables shoehorned into a gaussian framework.

 

[casamapa]

That is good advice

The fact that my education or present experience do not count anything is clear to me but I was wondering if there is an alternative route to the university one. Personally, I have been learning C++, VBA and readying different financial engineering books. Now why do I feel this could work? Because I feel I am capable of learning exactly and more 'effectively from a cost-saving perspective' what I need to break into trading - just reading a few books and practising, how many people have become successful.

I know hundreds of people that told me going back to univ. is too risky nowadays, you not necessary learn the skills that would be applied in a job, and spending 15k+ on a master is not always the best way to go. Practice is the best way of training. I hope I am not too naive!

 

[rawrschach]

You may be capable but HR wants to hire someone based on a uni name.

The right uni will give you the opportunity to immerse yourself socially with the people you would be working for.

Bottom line; if you want to get into a big firm you have to play the game.

If you want to get into a prop shop you can put together a track record.

If you want to start a hedge fund, well, anyone that can get people to give them money to invest can do that.

 

[casamapa]

You may be capable but HR wants to hire someone based on a uni name.

Have you ever heard the Certificate in Quantitative Finance from 7 City / Fitch?

Certificate in Quantitative Finance (CQF) - Mathematical Finance Qualification | CQF