Advice for getting a job in trading

[sansari]

I've got no idea why my first post generated so much reputation as it was a bit of a rant.

Anyway, I'll offer my advice to those of you that want a job as a professional trader. This is just very basic but you'd be surprised how many of the applicants don't prepare in this way.

1. First and foremost. As Grant so wonderfully said above: "The City may be racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic, wheel-chairist, maybe even ageist but first and foremost, they are capitalist and if you can make them a fortune, all prejudices disappear, as if by magic. Don't be put off." That is great advice. If you are like me - useless at maths but confident in your ability and can demonstrate approximately 6 months consistency even if you have not made a huge deal of money then a prop firm IS going to back you. So if this sounds like you and you want it enough, start contacting them.

2. OK, you want a job as a trader but you have no experience. Then go and get some. You can teach yourself almost anything these days and the best way is to actively get involved. Open an account: whether it is futures, options or spreadbetting - start trading. It's not hard to open an account and these days takes little money either. It doesn't matter whether you are a total failure at least you are giving it a go and you are looking at how prices move. And within no time at all you are already starting to LEARN about the issues that traders face. Fundamental analysis, technical analysis, emotional analysis; greed and fear. Worst case scenario you lose a little money but you have some actual experience to impart and you look INTERESTED. Imagine you're the recruitment officer at a firm. You've got a candidate infront of you and you ask: "So, why do you want to be a trader?" and they reply: "Well, I'm very interested in the financial markets, I think...." Woah. Let's stop you there. You're so interested but you never even bothered to actually trade anything yourself?

3. Read books on the markets. I firmly believe you shouldn't turn up at an interview without having read "Reminiscenes of a Stock Operator" and "Market Wizards" at a minimum. Neither of those books will turn you into a super trader but they do give you an insight into what this job is like, how hard it is, how much effort you put in, how wrong things can go despite the effort you put in and they are also the most talked about trading books out there, so if you want to look interested in your field, then you want to have read them.

4. Read the Wall Street Journal OR the FT so that you know what is going on in the world of business and finance. Try and have an opinion. Don't be afraid of being wrong. The best traders are wrong all the time. I know someone that applied for a position as a FTSE trader and was asked where he thought the price of Soybeans was going. What has that got to do with the FTSE? Not a lot. But most good firms want to know that you have an insight into world events and their correlation: Right now the the US is MORE interested in boosting the economy than fighting inflation. What does this mean for interest rates? If interest rates go down where are bond prices going? Where is the countries currency going? What could this do to commodity prices? Imagine a recruitment officer asked you: "If commmodities like oil go up what happens to the European indices like the FTSE and the DAX?". Candidate A answers: "Well, inflation is bad for the economy. Higher prices are more likely to result in companies making less profits. The lower profits would cause investors to sell stock and the Europeans markets would fall." Candidate B answers: "Well, inflation is bad for the economy. Higher prices are more likely to result in companies making less profits. The lower profits would cause investors to sell stock and the Europeans markets would fall. BUT oil companies are a large component of the FTSE and since their profits would likely be up there is a case for arguing that the FTSE may still fall but LESS than the DAX..." I know who I'd hire.

4. Brush up on your maths. I personally don't think Maths is at all important for trading outrights and I've yet to be proven wrong BUT it's an unfortunate fact of life that you're going to have to sit tests at firms. The maths tests and the aptitude tests that you get set at firms are not PURELY to test your maths ability. They are to test how you react under pressure. Do you keep calm or do you go to pieces? Learn to add, subtract, divide and multiply long numbers, quickly. Get a simple maths book and work through it. Bear in mind that if you fail the maths tests point 1 will get you in no matter what.

I've just joined this forum and in all my scouring of the internet for bits of information I have come across your post in this forum in regards to getting a job as a trader; your post hitting the closest to home since for a few years now (e2005) I have been trying to find reliable trading and investing knowledge, that's very broad I know but, i mean, how where else to learn except from cracking open an investing book and then getting a finance and investment dictionary and just see where the definitions lead you.. anyways im rambling... I went to a polytechnic school, to study international business and logistics to see how the commodities and their relative markets down to the distribution ticked. While @ the polytechnic i was sitting in the campus coffee shop looking @ the paper and the only part left for me to read since the rest of it seemed to have disappeared happened to be the business section, and the price of gold caugt my eye somehwere a little under 300... it just didnt look right, i called my pops @ the moment and since he's got a broker i asked him to purchase "gold" for me with my savings, i don't even know what instrument was used all i know is that I was right then an i wanted to be right again and again. Since then I try and sort through mounds of electronic data through my university's electronic academic resources
as well as the 500+ trading/analysis/theory ebooks/books i have acquired to broaden my perspective, I applied for a job @ a trading firm in nyc E1 asset management but they trained me then didn't extend a visa :s . lol, my fault for trying to get a job from canada but hey it was a shot in the dark.... i had no idea how to get in the door... and i still don't, i live in vancouver so the trading jobs aren't huge here, there's a lot of promoters and I want nothing really to do with that since I read "fleecing the lamb : the story of the Vancouver stock exchange"... anyways Im rambling again... i guess that summarizes the hunt for me for a trading job... i started with losing my first 10 k i put in the market... lol... then by taking it eazy and lowering the lots that I trade, as well as applying many dif strategies to dif market environments, all i've learned I guess is that there is no theory too abstract and that if you really want a job trading you have to make it your job... I have all the ambition in the world and hungry like a mother#$@# but its almost impossible to find reliable sources of knowledge on the markets especially because nobody likes to show where their weaknesses lie , rather they demonstrate only their strengths and turn a blind eye to their faults....

the point of my rambling was in response to you rant about getting a job trading... and really it as aimless as a rant unless you can find someone who is willing to help you out... ive been looking for years and have yet to find a person who wants to throw me a bone and teach me a little something... lol I dont even know if all the things i know and have read and even that I apply are correct... If you could point me in the right direction as I've done almost everything that you've mentioned in both your rant and this post which I am replying to, I would be most grateful... I don't know how else to find a structured learning path , I have a large account now as I preformed decently thru the recession and picked up a couple of clients after writing my csc in van but still... i dont know jack... and no1 else does either apparently... lol... so please if you can throw me a bone.. i know im new on this, but i only joined to ask the questions as I'm no teacher myself

 

[tradespreads]

What are you trying to find out or know precisely? A general flavour of the industry is picked up on the sidelines when you engage in trading, or any activity for that matter. You've said you dabbled in commodities.

Fact of the matter is, don't aim to conform to stereotypes. Many others "do not know" unless you can clarify what it is that needs to be known.

Trading is more to do with business than anything else. Markets and financials are merely facets of the industry. Do your own thing and for that only you can know what you need to know.

 

[the_winner_11]

Well, in my opinion of course you should rely on yourself and your aims, but it's also good to know about others' mistakes, in order to prevent doing them by yourself!

 

[trader_dante]

I've just joined this forum and in all my scouring of the internet for bits of information I have come across your post in this forum in regards to getting a job as a trader; your post hitting the closest to home since for a few years now (e2005) I have been trying to find reliable trading and investing knowledge, that's very broad I know but, i mean, how where else to learn except from cracking open an investing book and then getting a finance and investment dictionary and just see where the definitions lead you.. anyways im rambling...

the point of my rambling was in response to you rant about getting a job trading... and really it as aimless as a rant unless you can find someone who is willing to help you out... ive been looking for years and have yet to find a person who wants to throw me a bone and teach me a little something... lol I dont even know if all the things i know and have read and even that I apply are correct... If you could point me in the right direction as I've done almost everything that you've mentioned in both your rant and this post which I am replying to, I would be most grateful... I don't know how else to find a structured learning path , I have a large account now as I preformed decently thru the recession and picked up a couple of clients after writing my csc in van but still... i dont know jack... and no1 else does either apparently... lol... so please if you can throw me a bone.. i know im new on this, but i only joined to ask the questions as I'm no teacher myself

What do you want to know?

 

[hemmerling]

Is anyone really having any troubles getting hired to trade remotely from a prop shop? I mean there are a ton of firms that take a deposit of a couple grand and let you go. If all you wanted was dirt cheap experience why not get a dirt cheap rate like 20 cents per 1,000 share although the 70/30 profit share could be better. But after experience move up the food chain for higher payouts.

Or is the issue that you don't want to pay the security deposit and get the in-house training?

Or maybe I'm out in left field here since as long as you have more than dialup you should be able to trade with a firm. They make money on the trades and have a deposit so no risk to them. I think I'm missing something here.

 

[GeeWhillikers]

do you think many traders who enter this market master the Trachtenberg method before starting?

something i've looked into and i could do the 13,12,11,9,8,7,6 times tables so fast! i'm going to give it a proper go when i break up from university in the summer.

'How to calculate quickly' (published by Dover) is better than Trachtenberg.

Both are boring (sitting, looking at a page of numbers and doing mental calculations over and over again). But the exercises are shorter in the Dover one which means you can do a bit each day (it also does not bother with the 'philosophical' aspects of Trachtenberg).

I also try to do calculations randomly during the day. For example beating the shop-keeper/till to figuring out my change. Or finding random numbers around me (eg. on car number plates) and multiplying or dividing them out.

It does work. Much like physical fitness, you can drill this stuff and you do improve (but like attaining physical prowess it is painful). Mostly it is about learning automatic short cuts (think Vordermann on countdown!), or drilling how to manipulate the digits in numbers in parallel.

 

[Mp78]

Is anyone really having any troubles getting hired to trade remotely from a prop shop? I mean there are a ton of firms that take a deposit of a couple grand and let you go. If all you wanted was dirt cheap experience why not get a dirt cheap rate like 20 cents per 1,000 share although the 70/30 profit share could be better. But after experience move up the food chain for higher payouts.

Or is the issue that you don't want to pay the security deposit and get the in-house training?

Or maybe I'm out in left field here since as long as you have more than dialup you should be able to trade with a firm. They make money on the trades and have a deposit so no risk to them. I think I'm missing something here.

That sounds like something I'd be interested in. Where can I get a deal like that?

MP78