"GREAT" Britain

[Trader333]

Im not supporting benefit cheats,

This can only happen if you don't pay tax.


Paul

 

[D70]

I just reported him

Good lad.
I'll buy you a beer.

 

[Atilla]

Agreed but raising taxes will also dampen demand and business growth is essential to helping this to happen as taxes will natually increase with more growth.

Cutting expenditure on services and increasing unemployment will also dampen demand and increase tax burden.

Not going to argue with you Mr 333. You are wrong... :cheesy: CLEARLY WRONG.

Think about it. :smart:

Where lies the greater loss and burden. Hand on heart now...



Where is the data to back this up and how do you know ? Most working people I know complain about their jobs and that includes doctors, accountants, lawyers as well as those in unskilled work. The stories I hear about benefit abusers shows that they seem very happy by comparison until they get caught.


Paul

Re your second post - have you ever been out of work? Anybody on these bloggs - when you are out of work how do you feel? Longest I've been out of work for was 5 months after the Millenium bug burst all IT budgets. That was dark days of the new Millenium for me. Not nice...

Those benefit abusers hate them selves. They only brag about it because they have no self respect and that is the only thing they can do. ie: I'm useless - I can't find work but hey I'm still smart look at me.

Yes mate - stay there and enjoy your self. Bunch of ******s. They know it too.




There is a lot of noise here. We should be looking at raising taxes - investing and producing world beating industrys and inventions - WHAT WE ARE GOOD AT.

I wouldn't run away from the Indian and Chinese competition - I would attack the problem.


Another round of service cuts is the same recipee Mrs T applied and as I say it will take us down a very bad road. I'M SURPRISED NO ONE CAN SEE THE END RESULT.

We MUST maintain social services - raise taxes and invest in manufacturing and education. Because and educated mind will find it impossible to remain unemployed once people realise the joy of knowledge and enligthenment.

Bush was barking about tax cuts too. He gave them away to oil giants. Now look at their defecit.


Your economic approach if you truly believe what you are advocating is based on fallacy and greed. The response that if you cut taxes people work harder stimulating the economy adn reduce social costs is a fallacy.

Whether you raise or cut taxes when you have global economic growth countries benefit and politicians adn economists jump on the band wagon claimign mastery of the universe. Look at Mr Brown's end to boom and bust.

 

[counter_violent]

The Thatcher govt actually started to pay down debt once the painful problems were addressed...wheras under Labour...it's all spend spend spend. Now you see the consequences. I no longer care as I will be doing my utmost to contribute as little as possible towards all this folly. Someone elses turn

 

[Trader333]

Re your second post - have you ever been out of work?

Yes I have but you are not comparing like with like. We are talking about benefit abusers and not those who are in genuine need but who are also receiving benefits. There have also been many cases where people have deliberately given up work because it is much easier to live on benefits, we have even had people say so on this forum.

I see no evidence that those abusing benefits feel bad about themselves whatsoever.

Also (Hand on Heart) high taxes reduce business and this is well known which in turn reduces taxable receipts. It depends on where and how you would increase tax.


Paul

 

[counter_violent]

Yes I have but you are not comparing like with like. We are talking about benefit abusers and not those who are in genuine need but who are also receiving benefits. There have also been many cases where people have deliberately given up work because it is much easier to live on benefits, we have even had people say so on this forum.

I see no evidence that those abusing benefits feel bad about themselves whatsoever.

Also (Hand on Heart) high taxes reduce business and this is well known which in turn reduces taxable receipts. It depends on where and how you would increase tax.


Paul

I suppose one could argue that abusing benefits is a full time job

 

[Atilla]

Yes I have but you are not comparing like with like. We are talking about benefit abusers and not those who are in genuine need but who are also receiving benefits. There have also been many cases where people have deliberately given up work because it is much easier to live on benefits, we have even had people say so on this forum.

I see no evidence that those abusing benefits feel bad about themselves whatsoever.

Also (Hand on Heart) high taxes reduce business and this is well known which in turn reduces taxable receipts. It depends on where and how you would increase tax.


Paul

Yes but one can't base government policy on individuals.

There are more people willing to work who can't find suitable work than those who are abusing the system or give up work to claim benefits. There are more people who need help and training than those in work who want to stop.


Also, I'm not referring to taxing business or corporations. Just PAYE and VAT and and bonuses in particular... Corporation tax and employers NI contributions can remain low. I agree. R&D allowance should be off-set against profits too. That's all cool.

For all Mrs T lovers out there here was her great transport policy - she gave generous tax allowances for cars whilst reducing subsidies on public transport. People subsequently had private cars sitting on the drive way whilst company cars running around trying to make up mileage to be tax efficient. Not only that - BL went bust, along with Rover and every other British car manufacturer sold off. So what else happened - people purchased foreign cars directly impacting imports-export balance - net leakage of pounds from the economy.

Bleeding economists - politicians and so called elite who know absolute eff all about national pride or good common sense. I'm from the street - a working class peasant who has worked up the ranks. At the prime age of almost 50 I can pretty much see in slow motion how these policies have played out.

We are now heading straight into yet another great disaster - Titanic II...

Yes Mrs T - who sorted out the economy indeed. She paid of the PSBR by selling national treasures for peanuts to foreigners as well as wasting North Sea Oil.

CV you are such a die hard... The Tory part should make a movie about you...

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Also (Hand on Heart) high taxes reduce business and this is well known which in turn reduces taxable receipts. It depends on where and how you would increase tax.

Paul, et al,
I'm sure studies were done, and proven in theory at least, that a flat 10% tax rate, across the board for all, would actually stimulate and vitalise the economy way way beyond our current expectations ?
I haven't followed it, not being a serious tax-payer, but I'm sure there were calls for such some years back ?

Garry

 

[counter_violent]

Atilla, just for the record i'm not a die hard Tory ...I can see the nonsense in all these main stream parties...it's just that Labour has infinitely more nonsense than the rest.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla, just for the record i'm not a die hard Tory ...I can see the nonsense in all these main stream parties...it's just that Labour has infinitely more nonsense than the rest.

That is so profoundly true.

Only good thing about the Labour party may well be the minimum wage they introduced coupled with an independent BoE which doesn't look too independent at the moment.

So you are a potential Liberal then??? :cheesy:

 

[counter_violent]

So you are a potential Liberal then??? :cheesy:

Non conformist...maybe perhaps.

 

[Black Swan]

As for where to move too, i'd love to move to America or Canada. One day

In all seriousness, i do think education is a major factor. I was lucky, my mum sweated 2 jobs to put me through public school.I learnt respect, discipline, a work ethic, etc, which sadly seems to be lacking nowdays. Look at the tv progs that are popular- britains got talent, x factor etc- brain dead people watching and entering believing that they are talented, if only they can be discovered. What feeds this self delusion? How many do you reckon could list any of Shakespeares works, could tell you who Plato was, have any conception of the law of diminishing returns?
We are churning out young people who are unemployable, with worthless qualifications, who cant finish a sentence without, innit?To the arsewipe who suggested the Antartic, 23 yrs old, such a big boy!Grow up ar--WIPE, I guarantee you'll be singing a different hymn in 20 yrs time.[/QUOTE]

She must be so proud..:innocent:

 

[kimo'sabby]

In all seriousness, i do think education is a major factor. I was lucky, my mum sweated 2 jobs to put me through public school.I learnt respect, discipline, a work ethic, etc, which sadly seems to be lacking nowdays. Look at the tv progs that are popular- britains got talent, x factor etc- brain dead people watching and entering believing that they are talented, if only they can be discovered. What feeds this self delusion? How many do you reckon could list any of Shakespeares works, could tell you who Plato was, have any conception of the law of diminishing returns?
We are churning out young people who are unemployable, with worthless qualifications, who cant finish a sentence without, innit?To the arsewipe who suggested the Antartic, 23 yrs old, such a big boy!Grow up ar--WIPE, I guarantee you'll be singing a different hymn in 20 yrs time.

Education, education, education!

I think it was labour that scrapped grammar schools, another terrible attempt at watering-down society, what's the phrase....social engineering?

Students/pupils don't seem to have to remember anything these days, exams are mainly based on course work, which ultimately means copying what you need out of a text book.

Nobody is allowed to be a winner in schools, everyone has to be seen as achieving.

This country, the UK is beyond saving, at least in our lifetimes.

 

[Atilla]

Education, education, education!

I think it was labour that scrapped grammar schools, another terrible attempt at watering-down society, what's the phrase....social engineering?

Students/pupils don't seem to have to remember anything these days, exams are mainly based on course work, which ultimately means copying what you need out of a text book.

Nobody is allowed to be a winner in schools, everyone has to be seen as achieving.

This country, the UK is beyond saving, at least in our lifetimes.

Competition is good but it needs to have a level playing field.

We need a single national cirricullum with a single state provided schooling.

All these different schools are a recipee for disaster.

I hold the view the class system with all it's grammer and public school type institutions are not good for the country. It doesn't promote unity or fairness.

It promotes differentials at that fashionable political word 'CHOICE'...

Choice my rear - as any parent can tell you when trying to get children into school of choice.

How comes the UK has been going down the pan and these elitist have been unable to save the country???

One system, one rule for all. Everybody competes within the same system.

That goes for all these daft religious schools opening up and down the country too.

Improve standards nationaly imho.

 

[fleetwood]

Noticed alot of talk about the benefits system and thought I'd share my thoughts.
I have one friend who used to work, he lost his job around christmas and then signed on. Fair enough I thought keep him sweet for a little bit till he finds some work else where. After a little while the jobcentre started to offer him jobs but they were minimum wage so he declined. After a while they started to pressurise him quite alot so after some advise from a friend hes now on disablity benefit lol. The funny thing is he did it so easily he told me. He just told them he was depressed so now he only has to see the doc everynow and again instead of going to the jobcentre with all the other scallies as he put it every 2 weeks.
Got a few other friends who are on benefits as well, some of them have never had a job and dont plan on it either.
Personally I would end benefits of all kinds. No jobseekers, No housing benefits and defiantly no ive had unprotected sex benefits. The Ive had unprotected sex benefit really pisses me off the amount of money they recieve is crazy. Sometimes it does make me a bit mad thinking about it but I just dont care any more my plan is to slowly build my money up and then **** off to some where hot.

 

[redart]

is incapacity benefits the same as disability benefits?
I know someone who was refused incapacity benefits who was suffering from breast cancer yet the junkies down her street were awarded the same benefit..?..

It does seem a bit strange how it all seems to work.

 

[counter_violent]

is incapacity benefits the same as disability benefits?
I know someone who was refused incapacity benefits who was suffering from breast cancer yet the junkies down her street were awarded the same benefit..?..

It does seem a bit strange how it all seems not to work.

Much better...I hope you don't mind the little addition

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Competition is good but it needs to have a level playing field.

ha !
not since Labour sold them all off in the 70s,
'cos sports was considered "elitist" and besides it's "unfair on the feelings of the loser"

(and yes, it happened right under my feet at my school, and I remember the debates and Loony Left arguments of the time)

 

[DionysusToast]

Where is the data to back this up and how do you know ? Most working people I know complain about their jobs and that includes doctors, accountants, lawyers as well as those in unskilled work. The stories I hear about benefit abusers shows that they seem very happy by comparison until they get caught.
Paul

All English people complain about their jobs because they are perpetual whiners.

I have never worked with a more miserable set of people than the English working in England. How hard is it to put a ****ing smile on your sorry a$$ face on a Monday morning ? It's even worse in London - God damn bunch of sad looking whiney a$$holes working in that beautiful, vibrant city. The only happy looking people there are from Eastern Europe.

I have worked in many third world countries where people are much worse off and much happier than the miserable molyy-coddled bunch in the UK who have the benefit of a social safety net, free healthcare, free accomodation and free whatever else you want.

 

[counter_violent]

All English people complain about their jobs because they are perpetual whiners.

I have never worked with a more miserable set of people than the English working in England. How hard is it to put a ****ing smile on your sorry a$$ face on a Monday morning ? It's even worse in London - God damn bunch of sad looking whiney a$$holes working in that beautiful, vibrant city. The only happy looking people there are from Eastern Europe.

I have worked in many third world countries where people are much worse off and much happier than the miserable molyy-coddled bunch in the UK who have the benefit of a social safety net, free healthcare, free accomodation and free whatever else you want.

Now you know why then ...middle britain paying too much in taxes to keep that sorry ass bunch of loser scrounging scum bags sat on their asses.