FTSE Beater
Experienced member
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Hi Naz
Thank you for answering my question.
I think your example is great for illustrating that its very difficult to scalp for points using spreadbetters.
I would also like to second Options comments - I think Free level 2 data would be great.
Thank you for answering my question.
I think your example is great for illustrating that its very difficult to scalp for points using spreadbetters.
I would also like to second Options comments - I think Free level 2 data would be great.
Naz
Experienced member
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Hi Guys
I am trying like anything to get,free level 2 Nasdaq for traders on a new web site.because i believe that by having access to it can help many styles of traders here in the UK.The more it can be viewed at critical turning points in a US trading day the more skill a trader can achieve.At first it may look difficult,but basic skills can be built up the more it is viewed.
If you look at the attached chart of Intel a little while ago.viewing the level 2 screen when Intel was at $18 with Glodman holding the bid like crazy was the prelude to intel making a run and hence the index following on behind as shown in the chart on the left.Wouldnt a spread better in the UK have had an edge if he'd been looking and understood what was going on when trading the Nasdaq index?
You know your spread betting company wont be looking at intels level 2 screen and when they move their quote with the bias in your favour,take your trade.
I am trying like anything to get,free level 2 Nasdaq for traders on a new web site.because i believe that by having access to it can help many styles of traders here in the UK.The more it can be viewed at critical turning points in a US trading day the more skill a trader can achieve.At first it may look difficult,but basic skills can be built up the more it is viewed.
If you look at the attached chart of Intel a little while ago.viewing the level 2 screen when Intel was at $18 with Glodman holding the bid like crazy was the prelude to intel making a run and hence the index following on behind as shown in the chart on the left.Wouldnt a spread better in the UK have had an edge if he'd been looking and understood what was going on when trading the Nasdaq index?
You know your spread betting company wont be looking at intels level 2 screen and when they move their quote with the bias in your favour,take your trade.
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Naz
Experienced member
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Here is the Level 2 screen at that turning point.
If you'd watched Intel many times you would know how important GSCO,SBSH are.What happened just before this was that GSCO held the bid when the selling came in 2/3c below the level shown.Then GSCO raised his bid.The ECN's continued to jump infront of him.and finaly from the time and sales the buying came in.
Then look at the index,up we go until Intel hits $18 and the index hits a fib level.Who was selling at the top? You guessed it GSCO.
If you'd watched Intel many times you would know how important GSCO,SBSH are.What happened just before this was that GSCO held the bid when the selling came in 2/3c below the level shown.Then GSCO raised his bid.The ECN's continued to jump infront of him.and finaly from the time and sales the buying came in.
Then look at the index,up we go until Intel hits $18 and the index hits a fib level.Who was selling at the top? You guessed it GSCO.
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Hehe, Excellent Naz.
Bring it on m8, and help us to cream the sb's. Then we can all get decent accounts and trade properly.
One thing that puzzles me. How do you know which way a share/indice will go. Is it easy to spot or the result of hours of practise.
I mean, on a chart it is fairly easy to see where it will go to. But as I understand it, the L2 screen 'moves' before the chart does. What 'tells' you it going to 'go'?
Noticed the fib points were spot on. But a knowledge of, and the ability to see the support/resistance as a chart unfolds; in my view negates the need for Mr Fibonacci.
Well done for all the input Naz. Sharky should start paying you and Chartman.
Options
Bring it on m8, and help us to cream the sb's. Then we can all get decent accounts and trade properly.
One thing that puzzles me. How do you know which way a share/indice will go. Is it easy to spot or the result of hours of practise.
I mean, on a chart it is fairly easy to see where it will go to. But as I understand it, the L2 screen 'moves' before the chart does. What 'tells' you it going to 'go'?
Noticed the fib points were spot on. But a knowledge of, and the ability to see the support/resistance as a chart unfolds; in my view negates the need for Mr Fibonacci.
Well done for all the input Naz. Sharky should start paying you and Chartman.
Options
FTSE Beater
Since 25K PDT rule came out lots of under funded traders are starting trading e-minis.
You can trade them all day long with $5,000.
The danger is that unless you have very sound strategy you could blow out very quickly.
It would be advisable to trade 1 contract only to start with and to limit your daily loss to, say, $100.
That will give you chance to learn (and you’ll need to learn bloody fast) enough to stop the bleeding and then hopefully survive long enough to become longer term e-mini trader.
The risk is huge but the rewards are huge too!
If you can’t afford to lose $5,000 – then forget the above!
Since 25K PDT rule came out lots of under funded traders are starting trading e-minis.
You can trade them all day long with $5,000.
The danger is that unless you have very sound strategy you could blow out very quickly.
It would be advisable to trade 1 contract only to start with and to limit your daily loss to, say, $100.
That will give you chance to learn (and you’ll need to learn bloody fast) enough to stop the bleeding and then hopefully survive long enough to become longer term e-mini trader.
The risk is huge but the rewards are huge too!
If you can’t afford to lose $5,000 – then forget the above!
Taken from a post on adfn (spit ! ) about a US broker..
`Take a look at www.daytrade4less.com. This is the website of Global Futures. Excellent company, superb PATS trading interface, low minimum account size (only $2500), low margin (only $500 to trade one emini S&P contract), reasonable commission ($12 r/t).`
Looked at Pats trading system . Looks top class and was designed for large traders as opposed to min. stakes .
Take a look if SB are getting you down ;-)) ( i have no connection ) .
`Take a look at www.daytrade4less.com. This is the website of Global Futures. Excellent company, superb PATS trading interface, low minimum account size (only $2500), low margin (only $500 to trade one emini S&P contract), reasonable commission ($12 r/t).`
Looked at Pats trading system . Looks top class and was designed for large traders as opposed to min. stakes .
Take a look if SB are getting you down ;-)) ( i have no connection ) .
in my imagination...
In a spread bet firm:
Dealer: Sir, last few days a bit less than 90% of traders lost
Senior: That's not good, we want 90% or more losing, switch off the website now and then
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, increase the spread by 2 points
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, swing the spread abruptly
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, increase the bias
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, delay the quotes and fills (keep requoting in another office)
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
My imagination got stuck for now to find out the next step, any ideas?
Riz
In a spread bet firm:
Dealer: Sir, last few days a bit less than 90% of traders lost
Senior: That's not good, we want 90% or more losing, switch off the website now and then
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, increase the spread by 2 points
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, swing the spread abruptly
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, increase the bias
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
S: No good, delay the quotes and fills (keep requoting in another office)
D: Sir, still less than 90% losing, what next?
My imagination got stuck for now to find out the next step, any ideas?
Riz
The Next step
IMO rizz the answer would be.......
Dealer: Contact another SB firm while they are holding and hedge the trade...
At the end of the day SB firms only advantages have to revolve around the CGT liabilities. If you can consistently make money every day you (should) be better off rather than losing the 40% to the taxman (Unless someone has a cunning plan!!) However, if you can make more through cfds due to the spreads being tighter then surely the jump to direct access is the route, unless you do not like the trading hours or US stocks of course. Sorry for speaking the obvious.
I personally have both and use both. I trade UK stocks using sb firms (CMC deal4free) and trade the QQQs through direct access. My L2 skills are nowhere near NAZ so my move to US stocks is gradual
At the end of the day, fins have told me they have to hedge your trades and so (apparently) if you lose they lose (funny smell all of a sudden). But lets be honest...............at the end of the day they are in business to make money.They do not charge for trading directly so they are gonna get you the best way they can. They all have profit targets, bonuses and in some cases shareholders to think about so what are they gonna do? fins do not have the best trading platform, they are not market makers, they do not offer the best spreads. They are not the best out there so to assume they are going to increase market share to gain bigger profits is doubtful.
IMO it is only a matter of time before the taxman steams in and starts taking the one advantage of sb firms soon anyway.
Sorry for being Mr Cynical here but I hate what they do as much as the next. Using a sb firm is more gambling than trading and although I do use sb extensively, I do not believe that in the long term the situation will be allowed to improve where sb becomes a better trading vehicle than direct access or cfds, whether its down to the trading platform, spreads, speed or the numbnut at the sb company processing your trade.
However, until that time comes, milk them for what you can but be prepared as they need to make a profit too....................
Time to jump out of a very tall building................
IMO rizz the answer would be.......
Dealer: Contact another SB firm while they are holding and hedge the trade...
At the end of the day SB firms only advantages have to revolve around the CGT liabilities. If you can consistently make money every day you (should) be better off rather than losing the 40% to the taxman (Unless someone has a cunning plan!!) However, if you can make more through cfds due to the spreads being tighter then surely the jump to direct access is the route, unless you do not like the trading hours or US stocks of course. Sorry for speaking the obvious.
I personally have both and use both. I trade UK stocks using sb firms (CMC deal4free) and trade the QQQs through direct access. My L2 skills are nowhere near NAZ so my move to US stocks is gradual
At the end of the day, fins have told me they have to hedge your trades and so (apparently) if you lose they lose (funny smell all of a sudden). But lets be honest...............at the end of the day they are in business to make money.They do not charge for trading directly so they are gonna get you the best way they can. They all have profit targets, bonuses and in some cases shareholders to think about so what are they gonna do? fins do not have the best trading platform, they are not market makers, they do not offer the best spreads. They are not the best out there so to assume they are going to increase market share to gain bigger profits is doubtful.
IMO it is only a matter of time before the taxman steams in and starts taking the one advantage of sb firms soon anyway.
Sorry for being Mr Cynical here but I hate what they do as much as the next. Using a sb firm is more gambling than trading and although I do use sb extensively, I do not believe that in the long term the situation will be allowed to improve where sb becomes a better trading vehicle than direct access or cfds, whether its down to the trading platform, spreads, speed or the numbnut at the sb company processing your trade.
However, until that time comes, milk them for what you can but be prepared as they need to make a profit too....................
Time to jump out of a very tall building................
tradingintime
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Hi,
This is a great thread and I hope this adds a bit.
I looked at daytrade4less on Wednesday and asked them for info. They called we yesterday and quoted the below.
Low Commission Rate of $10 all in round turn for E-minis
Low Day Margin $500 for E-mini S&P / $1000 for Mini-Nasdaq
$250 for Mini-Dow (Maintain Minimum Account Balance of $2500)
Low Day Margin $1000 for E-mini SP (Accounts below $2500)
Margins Subject to change without notice
We also offer no charge phone-in orders unlike
most brokers which do charge $30.
Direct Pit Access To Qualified Accounts
Free Tech Support
No Account Maintenance Fees
No Monthly Fees...
No Minimum Trades Required ...
Easy To Use Platform
I think I am going to give them a try as I have started to throw my toys out of the pram with CMC.
Could you please tell me who the IB broker is and how I could get in contact with them.
Thanks.
This is a great thread and I hope this adds a bit.
I looked at daytrade4less on Wednesday and asked them for info. They called we yesterday and quoted the below.
Low Commission Rate of $10 all in round turn for E-minis
Low Day Margin $500 for E-mini S&P / $1000 for Mini-Nasdaq
$250 for Mini-Dow (Maintain Minimum Account Balance of $2500)
Low Day Margin $1000 for E-mini SP (Accounts below $2500)
Margins Subject to change without notice
We also offer no charge phone-in orders unlike
most brokers which do charge $30.
Direct Pit Access To Qualified Accounts
Free Tech Support
No Account Maintenance Fees
No Monthly Fees...
No Minimum Trades Required ...
Easy To Use Platform
I think I am going to give them a try as I have started to throw my toys out of the pram with CMC.
Could you please tell me who the IB broker is and how I could get in contact with them.
Thanks.
You hit the nail on the head Riz and it'll always be that way. In order to be a profitable business they need the majority to loose. So they will adjust their dirty tricks strategy to balance profitability/customer churn rate.
My girfriend has been trading the Dow Cash with Fins for pennies and has previously been a loser. But recently her fortunes have changed and she also tells me that Fins is behaving quite well too. It seems the main reason her trading has improved is because she watches the S&P future chart more than the Dow. It does seem to get her in and out with the bias in her favour quite often. Can't be that simple can it?
My girfriend has been trading the Dow Cash with Fins for pennies and has previously been a loser. But recently her fortunes have changed and she also tells me that Fins is behaving quite well too. It seems the main reason her trading has improved is because she watches the S&P future chart more than the Dow. It does seem to get her in and out with the bias in her favour quite often. Can't be that simple can it?
In answer to the question at the end of my ironical post regarding the possible steps they might take in case of not having as many losing customers as they like I just got the answer: Fins suspended my account from internet trading, the reason they give me is that it is not good for me...
That speaks for itself... do I need to make further comments on this, Fins?
Riz
That speaks for itself... do I need to make further comments on this, Fins?
Riz
They know how ridiculous the explanation is therefore refusing to put it in writing... I hope fins users get the message here, they feel they have the right to decide what is best for me (meaning them) and ban me accordingly, they know I cant do phone trading with 2 babies around, so virtually stopping me trading with Fins...
Are there no authorities in this country regulating these people till when are they going to do whatever they like to their customers?
I know for a fact they have agents reading bullettin boards why do they not care to respond?
All I can do now is asking them to have the courage to respond me in writing either here or by e-mail, letter whatever mean they prefer and I promise I'll post their reply right here to be fair on them (unlike them).... you feeling up to it Fins?
Riz
Are there no authorities in this country regulating these people till when are they going to do whatever they like to their customers?
I know for a fact they have agents reading bullettin boards why do they not care to respond?
All I can do now is asking them to have the courage to respond me in writing either here or by e-mail, letter whatever mean they prefer and I promise I'll post their reply right here to be fair on them (unlike them).... you feeling up to it Fins?
Riz
