Evening trading US shares

For what it's worth, I have seen grey trade live, so i'd be amazed if there was any truth in him using two accounts. He most definitely knows how to take money out of the market.

However, I am also a big fan of people like Mr Charts and Naz. I dont see why we cant just accept that there are different ways to skin a cat. Momentum = more opportunity for points? I dont know.

Id be happy if I could trade like either of you.

Dont let this thread die.
 
Come on guys enuff is enuff!!

Grey, I understand the risk concept very well and I have read all the stuff by Michael Bryant whom you recommend, it's not that hard.

However, my last comment on the subject is this.

Stock A $2 move
Stock B $1 move

We both assume the same amount we want to risk on the trade, $250. You trade 1000 shares with a 0.25 stop and I trade 1000 shares with a 0.25 stop. You will now say, oh you're being stupid as the stock is double the volatility of stock B, BUT, big BUT, my entry will be precision like, within the 0.25 cent region, or even better, as we read true momentum.

Stock A profit $2000
Stock B profit $1000

As we've said before, momentum is not everybodies cup of tea, yes, it's dangerous, I don't deny that , but the profit potential is greater and so is the loss potential greater, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Yes brown bread for the ill disciplined..
 
Come on guys enuff is enuff!!

yes, it's dangerous, I don't deny that , but the profit potential is greater and so is the loss potential greater, IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU DOING

Lee,
I am glad you have read Micheal's book ,, I think my message is getting through now,

Handling volatility of fast moving stocks is like that VASE the g/f throwing at you when you come home late.. Dangerous.. if she is too fast you get badly hurt depending on how angry she is.

Greater reward of a fast moving stock carries greater risk as you said correctly ,, hence move on to a mthodology that

1) it is more technical and TA works far better
2) GO for RISK adjusted RETURN and not just RETURN ,, donot let reward blind you ,,,you have the art of being a good technician remain as one and apply it to NONE NEWS related stocks., Does it matter what stock u make money out of ?


Grey1
 
For what it's worth, I have seen grey trade live, so i'd be amazed if there was any truth in him using two accounts. He most definitely knows how to take money out of the market.

However, I am also a big fan of people like Mr Charts and Naz. I dont see why we cant just accept that there are different ways to skin a cat. Momentum = more opportunity for points? I dont know.

Id be happy if I could trade like either of you.

Dont let this thread die.


Candle,

I have now had around 50 people in my house from this BB including a T2W team member. I would love to trade live as you know simply because I have nothing to be worry about. I have nothing to hide,,,, if i lose for the day so what .. This is trading . who said a trader should not lose. LOSS is part of the game.
I hope i contributed some thing to your trading career and on top of that meet some top traders of this BB too.


grey1
 
Donot be stupid,,, ROFL ,, differnet account , I have had 50 people here including a T2W team to watch me trading LIVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Get a life ..opps get an EDGE you edge less loser .. post your yesterday trades I challenge you ? I bet you got none

Grey1
These are my trades:
WWY
9:38:45 bought 1000 56.85
9:44:14 sold 100 59.07
9:44:14 sold 300 59.10
9:46:32 sold 600 60.10

MA
9:59:22 bought 200 115.74
10:06:02 sold 200 116.18

POT
9:38:27 bought 200 180.80
9:41:24 sold 200 183.33

Here's a loser and it's the only one! (this probably wouldn't have happened if I used your mathematical RM sh*t.) LOL
KBH
10:00:07 bought 200 45.25
10:00:07 bought 100 45.25
10:00:09 bought 100 45.25
10:00:09 bought 100 45.25
10:04:47 sold 100 45.05
10:04:47 sold 100 45.05
10:04:56 sold 100 45.04
10:04:56 sold 100 45.04
10:04:57 sold 100 45.04

BTW, I don't like showing off my p&l like you do. There are some people on this board, who know me personally, and they know that I make money. That's why I don't show my p&l, but usually the trades I do. Everyone is free to decide the size he/she trades. So an explanation of the trade would be enough. And if you read through my posts, you should know that I also have posted losing trades.
 
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Iraj,
In answer to your question: don't bother - just ignore them. They can outline their methodologies if they choose to and you can outline yours. If they are genuinely as clueless as you seem to be suggesting, their lack of knowledge will be displayed for all to see. I, you and everyone else can then laugh at their stupidity..

Now timsk,

I'm not sure, but I think I know you from the meetup in London. You tell me, what's so stupid about making money the way we do. UUHH, maybe not making money? This momentum trading is mostly about discipline. If you don't have discipline you probably won't succeed in anything in life!

-Dave
 
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I am going to explain the basic of risk concept in an easy format.

Lets say we have two stocks stock A , Stock B ,,

Stock A is in the NEWS( lets say the company finds tons of Gold in Peckham )
Stock B has a technical reason to move..

Lets say stock A moves $2 and stock B only moves $1 ? which one you should have been trading ? Which one would give you more profit?

ANSWER= IT DEPENDS ON YOUR POS SIZE ( .. If i buy 1000 shares of Stock B would give me exactly the same of profit as 500 shares of stock A) .. simple easy peasy

hence the statment more momentun is more profit = nonesence
Now lets me go further.

SO if they both return the same amount why should not we be trading the momentum then ?

Answers= First of all youare all Technical traders and as a technical trader you should be trading technical MOVES and NOT momentum moves but this factor is not all that important.

Now I take you to the concept of risk,,

if i tell you lets rub a bank and we make £1 million profit or alternatively we could use our intelligence and do BUSINESS with bank and over 12 month we would make exactly the same amount.. which one would you go for ?

Of course, you might decide to rub the bank as it is much faster and shorter period to gain the £1 million profit but what about the risk ?

IN WALL STREET , fund managers talk about RISK ,, RISK RISK RISK and as a result THEY PLAN A RISK ADJUSTED RETURN STRATEGY ..

We as a daytrader should do exactly the same . A RISK ADJUSTED PLAN ..

RISK in TA is defined by Volatility ... Volatility is the root of all evils.. VOLATILITY must be tamed for trading , if you cannot tame it then you must meausre it and hence design a trading plan to include the UNIT OF RISK PER UNIT OF RETURN PRIOR TO TAKING THE POSTIONS,

You have two choices,,
you can use HISTORICAL evidence of volatility ( ATR ) to meaure RISK ( you cannot correctly do that on momentum trading because NEWS HAS JUST HIT THE STOCK TO DAY AND A STOCK WHICH WAS ONLY MOVING FEW CENTS YESTERDAY IT IS MOVING $$$ TO DAY )

Or you can use a PROJECTERED Volatilty model such as CSV model ( compounded stochastic volatility ) to measure the inherent risk of the current moves with in specific time frame.


Either way YOU MUST meaure it objectively.. ,, It is dead simple and yuou need not to involve yourselvess with complicated stuffs. WEEEEEEEEE. ( Read about ATR on web .. simple enough stuff for any trader with even minimal of math education )


Once you measure it then you can adjust your position size accoringly to fit the volatility of the stocks u are trading .

Now that you have read this text and understood the basics of postion sizing then you know why MR CHART taking 800 Postion for two different stocks with two different volatilty could not be correct and he refused to reply to my question .

Readers of this POST must think twice on momentum trading.. Momentum trading is just like EARNING REPORT,S TRADING,, FLAMMEABLE and on top of that they ACT MUCH MUCH LESS TECHNICALLY than a stock which is not in the news and moves based on the technical MERITS.

You are all techncial trader ,, Stay as one

Grey1

Yeah right, like a hedge fund is looking at the ATR or CSV before the enter a position. You'd make one hell of a hedge fund manager. :LOL:
You should take a look at Jim Cramers youtube video of thestreet.com, where he tells people how hedge funds manipulate stocks. I think he's looking at the ATR before he sells a few 100k of RIMM stock. Yeah right. LMAO ROFL LOL.

A hedge fund manager talks about risk, because he's got an overnight portfolio with positions you can't get out with just a click on the mouse. And that's why he needs to hedge that risk. Like he's going to look at the ATR, come man, think before you type!

And what if a stock with low volatility makes a technical break out, you go long and some good momentum starts coming in. You have a some bigger share size because according to your mathematical sh*t stuff it has a low ATR, the stock starts squeezing like hell. Volatility comes in. According to you now we have too much size on! You calculations might work for a swing trader, but not for us!

-Dave
 
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Hey Dave

$3,338 can't be bad for 25mins and this is a tenth of size you normally trade. Not bad for a momentum trader.

Great trading.
p.s. I Skype with dvdh and know these trades are real and vice versa
 
Hey Dave

$3,338 can't be bad for 25mins and this is a tenth of size you normally trade. Not bad for a momentum trader.

Great trading.
p.s. I Skype with dvdh and know these trades are real and vice versa

Thanks Lee,

according to his sh*tty risk management I probably should only have taken 200 shares on WWY. Wow, I'd be up something like 600 then. Long live mathematical sheit risk management.

-Dave
 
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These are my trades:
WWY
9:38:45 bought 1000 56.85
9:44:14 sold 100 59.07
9:44:14 sold 300 59.10
9:46:32 sold 600 60.10

MA
9:59:22 bought 200 115.74
10:06:02 sold 200 116.18

POT
9:38:27 bought 200 180.80
9:41:24 sold 200 183.33

Here's a loser and it's the only one! (this probably wouldn't have happened if I used your mathematical RM sh*t.) LOL
KBH
10:00:07 bought 200 45.25
10:00:07 bought 100 45.25
10:00:09 bought 100 45.25
10:00:09 bought 100 45.25
10:04:47 sold 100 45.05
10:04:47 sold 100 45.05
10:04:56 sold 100 45.04
10:04:56 sold 100 45.04
10:04:57 sold 100 45.04

BTW, I don't like showing off my p&l like you do. There are some people on this board, who know me personally, and they know that I make money. That's why I don't show my p&l, but usually the trades I do. Everyone is free to decide the size he/she trades. So an explanation of the trade would be enough. And if you read through my posts, you should know that I also have posted losing trades.
DVDH

you are rude , you swear but that is 100% fine with me , I have seen people like you with that kind of language.
Now lets go back to your trading ,,

You used to trade 10 000 shares of AAPL you claim, now you gone back to 200.. That is fine , but some thing seriously and drastically MUST have gone wrong with your trading and hence the comment you made about your self " YOU LOST YOUR EDGE in OCT 2006 "

I tell you what I think , I think you lost loads and loads of money and now market has forced you to be much more careful ( Again this is part and parcel of trading . You need to go through this process to finally become a trader ) . Again , I hope you still have some funds left to recover.

Now lets talk about your trades yesterday ,,
your postion size are not volatility adjusted so you need to get urself a risk managment book and read. You donot like my posts fair enough but you need to educate yourself .
you traded 5 stocks in 1 hour and you posted them here ,, OK what did you do for the rest of the day ? Did you not trade at all?Why donot you post the screen shot from ur broker's screen ?

Reading between the line , I feel you are a scared trader with little or no confidence in your strategy and hence pulling that trigger. I sincerely hope you have not blown most of your capital like TRADER ALI ..


grey1


PS:_ due to personal reasons i wont be trading to day , I probably be back trading on Wednesday depending on my return time. I however will take my Lap top to reply to technical question
 
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:cry: :cry:

I'm just back from a month in Madeira and I'm sorry to see that this popular thread has degenerated into a slanging match between various contributors whilst I've been away.

Will you please call and end to it. Thanks.

jon
 
DVDH

you are rude , you swear but that is 100% fine with me , I have seen people like you with that kind of language.
Now lets go back to your trading ,,

You used to trade 10 000 shares of AAPL you claim, now you gone back to 200.. That is fine , but some thing seriously and drastically MUST have gone wrong with your trading and hence the comment you made about your self " YOU LOST YOUR EDGE in OCT 2006 "

I tell you what I think , I think you lost loads and loads of money and now market has forced you to be much more careful ( Again this is part and parcel of trading . You need to go through this process to finally become a trader ) . Again , I hope you still have some funds left to recover.

Now lets talk about your trades yesterday ,,
your postion size are not volatility adjusted so you need to get urself a risk managment book and read. You donot like my posts fair enough but you need to educate yourself .
you traded 5 stocks in 1 hour and you posted them here ,, OK what did you do for the rest of the day ? Did you not trade at all?Why donot you post the screen shot from ur broker's screen ?

Reading between the line , I feel you are a scared trader with little or no confidence in your strategy and hence pulling that trigger. I sincerely hope you have not blown most of your capital like TRADER ALI ..


grey1


PS:_ due to personal reasons i wont be trading to day , I probably be back trading on Wednesday depending on my return time. I however will take my Lap top to reply to technical question

As I said many many times, I lost my PREVIOUS edge in october when the ISLD, BRUT and SOES merged into NSDQ (ISLD). It had absolutely nothing to do with losing, cuz I just didn't lose anything. I made loads and loads and loads of money that year. And I do not need to show my P&L everyday, because that's not the reason why I'm posting here.
Yes I'm rude to you. I've never been rude to anyone on a BB. But you are so relentless in saying that people can't make money trading momentum stocks. That's just big time bull sh*t. You want to know what I did for the rest of the day. I'll tell you. Here in Holland it was the Day for the Queen (a national holiday). The weather is beautiful out here and I took the rest of the day off and went to the city to party! That's what I did!
Hahah, you call me triggershy!? That's funny, you're the one letting a computer call your trades! I trade everything I see that looks interesting to me, with my own risk management.

You really are too silly for words!

-Dave
 
:cry: :cry:

I'm just back from a month in Madeira and I'm sorry to see that this popular thread has degenerated into a slanging match between various contributors whilst I've been away.

Will you please call and end to it. Thanks.

jon

i will stop when he stops making false statements. It's not about the more momentum = more profit statement. It's about him thinking he's the one with all the knowledge. While he doesn't know sh*t!

You're right, this used to be a great thread before he started posting!

-Dave
 
I said an end to it please. Deletions follow from here on.

jon
 
I don't want to be accused of adding fuel to the fire but here's a quick trade I made shortly after the open today.

$1.46 profit in 6 minutes, momentum = profit??

I know what I think. ;)

But in all seriousness, pls let's all end the bitching and go back to posting quality material. thankyou
 

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I don't want to be accused of adding fuel to the fire but here's a quick trade I made shortly after the open today.

$1.46 profit in 6 minutes, momentum = profit??

I know what I think. ;)

Awesome trade. I did the same. Also traded VMC 2 bucks there. Really nice day.
also AVP, RX, CHE, ADM, ICE, UA.

-Dave
 
Only one trade for me, DNDN breakout of 15.60, exit 17.43 = $1.83,
stop was at low of prior breakout bar, 10 cents away and took a large position on it as tight stop.

Muchas Gracias
 
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Only one trade for me, DNDN breakout of 15.60, exit 17.43 = $1.83,
stop was at low of prior breakout bar, 10 cents away and took a large position on it as tight stop.

Yeah, that's the only one I missed, since I was too busy trading the other stocks. But what a nice setup man!

-Dave
 
OMG, VMC is just handing out money. Look at those nice straight momentum moves!

-Dave
 
Here's the chart from earlier.

DNDN has been one of my core stocks since beginning of April, has good liquidity and for a $16 stock it can move! Has been basing the last two days which always catches my eye due to price contraction and normally after this tightening consolidation we get a good move. Even was on my gapper list. You can see that the ATR was minimal, but as momentum comes in we get an awesome breakout and volatility explodes. With an 11 cent stop, the low of the prior bar, I work out my position size based on my max risk, and I exit when T&S shows blood red and the bids start to fall. Makes for a nice 18.1 RR. On a move as extreme as this I try and hold the full position to maximise $$$ but any bars against me then I would exit half.


Had a problem with my internet connection today and was not pleased, even stuck in a trade and had to use emergency backup procedures, but got through to Tradestation quickly to close out my position for a small loss. Always plan for the inevitable!
Had a couple of trades later today in DJ for small scalps and a loss in CC, but overall a pleasant day.

Best wishes
Lee
 

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