Dow - Which Way?

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counter_violent said:
Your mistake here if I might say so, was to alter your thinking on the stops situation, due to mild pressure from those who have decided that tight stops are where its at ( you can't please everyone all of the time) so why even bother ?

Your second mistake was to shy away from your intended " trade management plan " ( a form of averaging ) or ( multiple entries ) again by trying to soften the edges, again some mild pressure.( you can't please everybody all of the time) so why bother ?

What you need to do here is set out both of the above so as they are not open to interpretation, then just get on with it I M H O

As there are no indicators forthcoming you are bound to attract criticism ( lack of something tangible to evaluate)

Ref Post * 93

hope you will find all the above as useful criticism

C V
Click to expand...

YES I take the point. I shall try and stick to absolute strict "Stop Loss" decisions to make it easier. It will be clear next time. Sorry everyone. What I am trying to say is you can still enter the same trade now. There is no difference.

As regards Doubling Up it is a little hard to explain without you seeing anything. This will not be used in my system now. It is early days I know.

Bid A-Tool
 
TheBramble said:
BAT - When you went short yesterday, at what level did you get filled? What was your initial stop? Where is your stop now? Have you moved it UP at any point since taking the trade? When (what will have to happen) will you start moving it down to follow (any) short price action? Where will you take full or partial profit?

Humour aside for the moment, I'm missing the meat of what you're about. It seems ill defined. Undefined actually. If you're really trading this way you wont be for long.

And I don't think anyone is 'blaming' you for what the market's doing? If you're sensing any 'focus' in your direction it's because you're not making much sense. Just my view.
Click to expand...

Bramble,

The trade was entered at 11,340. Initial "Stop Loss" 11,420. I have placed the "Stop Loss" back to the 11, 420 personally. We are now in the same position as we were at the beginning. A bit of a floating "Stop" I know which many would not believe in.

This is really a new trade that has been entered if you can see what I mean.

We take profits on the next "Buy Signal". It has to fall to do that.

Bid A-Tool
 
I quote:
"What I am trying to say is you can still enter the same trade now. There is no difference."

So the millions of dollars traded across the world by institutions, banks, hedge funds, insurance companies, pro traders and tiny little plankton in the ocean of the markets like me - have had absolutely no impact on what you stated earlier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Go back to school, and learn something, if it's only how to listen you'll be streets ahead than you are now!

Please note readers, that all I'm doing is trying to alert would be "believers" to the inherent flaws of this posters so called "predictive" statements about something which they clearly DO NOT understand!
Cheers
Q
 
Quercus said:
I quote:
"What I am trying to say is you can still enter the same trade now. There is no difference."

So the millions of dollars traded across the world by institutions, banks, hedge funds, insurance companies, pro traders and tiny little plankton in the ocean of the markets like me - have had absolutely no impact on what you stated earlier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Go back to school, and learn something, if it's only how to listen you'll be streets ahead than you are now!

Please note readers, that all I'm doing is trying to alert would be "believers" to the inherent flaws of this posters so called "predictive" statements about something which they clearly DO NOT understand!
Cheers
Q
Click to expand...

311 points in the Bag so far and NO money lost on the LAST trade. That is the truth.............JOB DONE no matter how you dress it up.

In fact I may call the trade again after the close just to make things clear.

With the 311 points made so far. I can afford to have the next 4 trades fail each with a "Stop Loss" of 75 points if I wish.

I think the so called "Professional Traders" are getting worried. I challenge you destroy my system. You haven't done so far.

Bid A-Tool
 
Quercus said:
I quote:
"What I am trying to say is you can still enter the same trade now. There is no difference."

So the millions of dollars traded across the world by institutions, banks, hedge funds, insurance companies, pro traders and tiny little plankton in the ocean of the markets like me - have had absolutely no impact on what you stated earlier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Go back to school, and learn something, if it's only how to listen you'll be streets ahead than you are now!

Please note readers, that all I'm doing is trying to alert would be "believers" to the inherent flaws of this posters so called "predictive" statements about something which they clearly DO NOT understand!
Cheers
Q
Click to expand...

When you refer to 'believers' I think you rank myself among those of whom you speak.

Also when you refer to 'predictive' statements, you will see that I too have posted some, both on this thread and in my journal.

Now, where as I agree that I trade a different time scale to BAT, and my 'predictions' are given only for intraday, I am open to listening to alternative theories. We all know there is no 'Holy Grail' of trading, but I am happy to explore new strategies with new traders.

Who knows I might find something that suits my way of trading better than what I use at the moment.

BAT's theory may not work in the 'Real World' of trading, there again it might. At the moment I am reserving judgement until I have seen more trades and more data.

Please don't push other traders away just because they are trying something new. That's not what this site is about.
 
BAT

Fair do's your getting a roasting on the board, but I can assure you if you read some of the advice it will be to your benefit. If you dont read it and more to the point, fail to see anything that can benefit you, you will stay as you are now, trading the DOW on a swing strategy with an 80 pip stop. If your not made of money, and most of us are not, create a strategy where your stake is not so high, then you can increase the stop to something that is more logically in tune with swing potential. Also, if you intend to operate a keen floating stop strategy (which I think is not sound practice), I suggest partially closing your position when its in profit as another valuable option. If you cannot do this because you only have a small starting bank, then you will likely be wiped out before you get going, its happened to many a trader....
 
NEW SHORT POSITION: LAST TRADE NO LOSS.

DATE: 26th April 2006 7:06pm

At the date above and time, the indicators have confirmed a reversal (FALL - GO SHORT) is on it's way.

How long it's duration or strength or how many points it will fall, I am unable to say.

Trade entered (Sell order) DOW: 11,366
Stop loss entered just above the Last High: Maximum position loss in this trade 54 points or less.
 
Bid A-Tool said:
Oh Boy..........But the trade has not been lost even if you enter now. It is still in a "Sell Position" my end.

Bid A-Tool
Click to expand...
I was 'disagreeing strongly' with DepthTangent and his statement "The reason for moving the stop to prevent a loss situation is not completely crazy...".

You hold onto your horses your man - I'll get around to disagreeing strongly with you soon enough... :LOL:
 
NEW SHORT POSITION: LAST TRADE NO LOSS

DATE: 26th April 2006 7:04pm

As of the date and time above, the indicators have confirmed a reversal (FALL - GO SHORT) is on it's way.

How long it's duration or strength or how many points it will fall, I am unable to say.

Trade entered (Sell order) DOW: 11,366
Stop loss entered just above the Last High (Logical) 11,420: Maximum position loss in this trade 54 points or less.
 
BAT

I thought you were operating a swing strategy ? You were even kind enough to paste a link explaining what a swing trade is (which I'am ever so grateful for) :)

Only one day after opening this trade you close it, is this not day trading ? Why did you not post on the board that you closed the trade without loss before selecting a new trade when the DOW quickly rose to 11366 ? Why would you close it at all ????

It appears quite convenient to wait for the market to rise, then tell us your closing your "swing position" for another "swing position" (week long strategy) less than 16 pips away !!? How can your system be based out of pure math and logic, a swing system that is supposed to be held for a week or so, generate a close order, then another sell order within 5 minutes and only 16 pips away ?

Are you going to provide a link to your super system in a few weeks time asking for 50$ bucks a month !!
 
DepthTangent said:
BAT

I thought you were operating a swing strategy ? You were even kind enough to paste a link explaining what a swing trade is (which I'am ever so grateful for) :)

Only one day after opening this trade you close it, is this not day trading ? Why did you not post on the board that you closed the trade without loss before selecting a new trade when the DOW quickly rose to 11366 ? Why would you close it at all ????

It appears quite convenient to wait for the market to rise, then tell us your closing your "swing position" for another "swing position" (week long strategy) less than 16 pips away !!? How can your system be based out of pure math and logic, a swing system that is supposed to be held for a week or so, generate a close order, then another sell order within 5 minutes and only 16 pips away ?

Are you going to provide a link to your super system in a few weeks time asking for 50$ bucks a month !!
Click to expand...

You are welcome to your opinion. LAST trade cancelled itself and NO money LOST. I have entered a new position for the benefit off on lookers. The sell SIGNAL is still in position.

I am personally still in my trade. My "Stop Loss" will now match the NEW trade "Stop Loss" of 11,420.

In future I will try and keep it simple for you in the "Stop Loss" position area. It will be based on my system.

The fact is if the DOW had fallen today then no one would have complained. It happeneds sometimes. Thats life. What do you want me to do about it? March over to Wall Street and complain the DOW didn't move the way I wanted it to today. I moved the "Stop Loss" down yesterday to protect anyone from LOSS.

Go and look at some REAL charts. Does a RISE or FALL on the DOW not contain some Down days and Up days.

Bid A-Tool
 
Last edited:
DepthTangent said:
BAT

I thought you were operating a swing strategy ? You were even kind enough to paste a link explaining what a swing trade is (which I'am ever so grateful for) :)

Only one day after opening this trade you close it, is this not day trading ? Why did you not post on the board that you closed the trade without loss before selecting a new trade when the DOW quickly rose to 11366 ? Why would you close it at all ????

It appears quite convenient to wait for the market to rise, then tell us your closing your "swing position" for another "swing position" (week long strategy) less than 16 pips away !!? How can your system be based out of pure math and logic, a swing system that is supposed to be held for a week or so, generate a close order, then another sell order within 5 minutes and only 16 pips away ?

Are you going to provide a link to your super system in a few weeks time asking for 50$ bucks a month !!
Click to expand...

Just a side point really, you forgot to mention the FIRST TRADE I called and the 200 point rise the next day. Did you catch it?

Bid A-Tool
 
TheBramble said:
I was 'disagreeing strongly' with DepthTangent and his statement "The reason for moving the stop to prevent a loss situation is not completely crazy...".

You hold onto your horses your man - I'll get around to disagreeing strongly with you soon enough... :LOL:
Click to expand...

HEY a friend. Sorry Bramble. I thought you was another enemy. This can get very confusing these treads. Running a full time business and keeping an eye on this tread is hard work.

Bid A-Tool
 
Bid A-Tool said:
NEW SHORT POSITION: LAST TRADE NO LOSS

DATE: 26th April 2006 7:04pm

As of the date and time above, the indicators have confirmed a reversal (FALL - GO SHORT) is on it's way.

How long it's duration or strength or how many points it will fall, I am unable to say.

Trade entered (Sell order) DOW: 11,366
Stop loss entered just above the Last High (Logical) 11,420: Maximum position loss in this trade 54 points or less.
Click to expand...

Hi BAT

I don't like being patronized and I am not here to grill you. But I am genuinely puzzled how you managed to get 11366 for a short position. I trade CFDs and the price stayed there for a short period of time.
It's trading around 11330 so your call was right so far. Talking about your last break-even trade, I'd rather take the profits when my system tells me there may be a recovery on the way. As a swing trader, it is better to take the profits at (perceived) swing low than watch it go back up and profits taken back IMHO. :D
 
leovirgo said:
Hi BAT

I don't like being patronized and I am not here to grill you. But I am genuinely puzzled how you managed to get 11366 for a short position. I trade CFDs and the price stayed there for a short period of time.
It's trading around 11330 so your call was right so far. Talking about your last break-even trade, I'd rather take the profits when my system tells me there may be a recovery on the way. As a swing trader, it is better to take the profits at (perceived) swing low than watch it go back up and profits taken back IMHO. :D
Click to expand...

CMC has the high as 11,377/81, so 11,366 would be quite possible on a SB account.
 
No, you're confused - I AM the enemy! :devilish:

Look, this has been, erm, an interesting diversion. But only from a psychological perspective.

I can't (wont) comment on your first post and the calls/predictions as it's been edited as recently as this evening so I have no way of knowing what it originally called - if anything.

But here's a very brief summary of your system:-

April 17th you call a LONG position after the close and apparently enter at 11,073 using a 'standard' 75pt stop.

April 21st you - against your 'rules' of only entering after close of market - close the position at the high for the day just half an hour into the trading day. This isn't from a sudden SELL signal which is also part of the 'rules' - you just decide to close it.

Remember - there's no CLOSE trade signal -just OPEN LONG/CLOSE SHORT and CLOSE SHORT/OPEN LONG.

So where did this close trade signal come from?

April 21st you state the closing position for the indicators is SHORT. You then edit this post to say the indicators have gone to FLAT after the market close. You never mentioned FLAT before.

April 22nd - stops (which were a blanket 75pts from your first post) have now been modified to 150pts.

April 24th - you get a short at 11,340 and you enter with a stop, now remodelled to 80 pts.

April 26th - you take off your stop loss to avoid it getting hit...!

April 26th - you take another short position from 11,420 with a stop now at 56pts.

The previous Short trade had in the interim been closed. Can't see any reason why.

Why have I gone to the trouble of analysing all this?

To save me the time of coming back here again.

Good trading.
 
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