Darwinex: the good , the bad and the ugly

[ProfitPioneer]

Is it me, or do these darwins have really poor performances nowadays? JTL new maximum drawdown recently, PUL new maximum drawdown recently, YKA new maximum drawdown recently, TRO new maximum drawdown recently, BSX new maximum drawdown recently, SYO serious drawdown, EPG serious drawdown... I'm not invested in all of these, and luckily I scaled back in time (especially the ones with no skin in the game: I also realized this rule...), but this is just painful. Something changed in the last year in the markets, and these amateur strategies just don't work anymore (especially with the very substantial investment fees, you just get nothing in the end, and even bear the losses). 2022 spring was the last profitable period, and 2/3 of those profits are now vanished in this huge drawdown. I just don't see the point of this darwin portfolio investing anymore: maybe I can expect 3% a year from this, but it is a very risky 3%... Bonds are just better in every way: bonds are risk-free, and I get even more return from them (which is ridiculous, but true). If you don't have access to trading strategies like Renaissance Technologies has, you just shouldn't be in the markets - and these amateur strategies are very-very far from this. After the fees to the traders and Darwinex, not very much is left on the table, if any. What are your opinions? Are darwin portfolios dead, or is it just a very unlucky period?

I see 3 issues/questions investing in darwins / darwin portfolios:

1. You just don't have enough information to pick the right darwins. Okay, 3+ years track record: and what's from that? That is maybe 0.1% of the information you could get from thoroughly backtesting the strategy (with sensitivity analyses, Monte Carlo method, etc.). So, the public information about the darwins is just nothing compared to what you could do if you owned the strategy and made your own backtests. You sell, buy and trade darwins, and build optimized portfolios from them: these are just some ridiculous illusions, you just cannot do these from the publicly available data of the trading strategies.

2. 20% performance fees, right? Well, the strategies go into drawdown after you paid, and you don't get back your paid money. Currently, it seems like I paid as much performance fees as my overall profits, so the performance fees seem like 50%. SOME traders may just go after these performance fees: their strategy is not even profitable anymore, but because of how this performance fee system works, he is able to make money from the investors. I think the performance fees should be untouched for at least a year, and investors should get back their money if these drawdowns happen: this would be a much fair system. Of course, this will never be the way.

3. Investing in drawdowns is another illusion in my opinion. Predicting a trading strategy from its past is impossible in my view - or it would be included in the strategy itself. Moreover, investing in drawdowns seems to be a martingale strategy to me: you increase the leverage if the strategy loses. What is it if not martingale?

So, all in all, I'm very disappointed in trading strategy investing, and I genuinely believe, a 2-3% annual return is the maximum one can make investing in darwin portfolios in the long run (and this 2-3% is with serious drawdowns, stress, etc). Absolutely not worth it. I spent 1.5+ years investing, put in a lot of effort, and made very little money. At least I see the reality of this fairytale.

I would like to express my respect for "Andras0503" and wholeheartedly agree with the points raised in this post.

1. Constructing a profitable Darwin portfolio post-investment can be extremely challenging. While the backtest tool may suggest high potential profitability, it's crucial to recognize the significant survivorship bias present on the Darwinex platform. Successful Darwins often endure substantial drawdowns, and selecting based solely on past performance can lead to future losses.
2. The asymmetry in profit and loss is detrimental to net profit and loss. For instance, if we invest in two Darwins—one yielding a 10% return incurring a 20% performance fee and the other losing 10%—the net result is a zero return, yet investors bear the full loss. Additionally, management fees are applicable regardless of performance. My experience indicates that combined management and performance fees can exceed 50% of gross returns, meaning investors do not truly receive the anticipated 80%.
3. Many Darwins are managed by amateur traders or small teams, making it challenging to outperform established professional firms or hedge funds. The only viable approach to constructing a potentially profitable Darwin portfolio appears to be a highly selective strategy focusing on qualified Darwins. However, even one or two underperforming Darwins can significantly erode overall profits.

Investors should exercise caution when considering investments in Darwins. If you choose to explore this avenue, I recommend starting with a small investment or utilizing a demo account.

 

[FXforfun]

Well, I disagree with @Andras0503. I think the trader is blamed for not providing sufficient profits when in most cases it is the investor himself who is responsible for his poor results. Because he expects impossible returns and because he does not understand that an investment should be measured in the long term.

I'm going to do a very simple exercise. In @Andras0503 post he mentions a list of 7 Darwins. That post from where he was complaining about how terrible traders are and little else that this is a hoax because all the Darwins were in Drawdown he specifically and bitterly cited; JTL, PUL, YKA, TRO, BSX, SYO, EPG.

Ok, let's look at that list of losers, selected by that investor. What is their 2024 cumulative return TODAY:
JTL 9%, PUL 0%, YKA -11%, TRO 9%, BSX -10%, SYO 4%, EPG 25%.

Well wow, I hope for @Andras0503's sake that he held his Darwins portfolio, because if he didn't hold it he will have made the mistake typical of most investors. Lack of patience.

I am not an investor, I am a trader. But in my opinion the investor's job is to analyze the Darwin and the trader. Once the decision is made, follow through to the end.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Well, I disagree with @Andras0503. I think the trader is blamed for not providing sufficient profits when in most cases it is the investor himself who is responsible for his poor results. Because he expects impossible returns and because he does not understand that an investment should be measured in the long term.

I'm going to do a very simple exercise. In @Andras0503 post he mentions a list of 7 Darwins. That post from where he was complaining about how terrible traders are and little else that this is a hoax because all the Darwins were in Drawdown he specifically and bitterly cited; JTL, PUL, YKA, TRO, BSX, SYO, EPG.

Ok, let's look at that list of losers, selected by that investor. What is their 2024 cumulative return TODAY:
JTL 9%, PUL 0%, YKA -11%, TRO 9%, BSX -10%, SYO 4%, EPG 25%.

Well wow, I hope for @Andras0503's sake that he held his Darwins portfolio, because if he didn't hold it he will have made the mistake typical of most investors. Lack of patience.

I am not an investor, I am a trader. But in my opinion the investor's job is to analyze the Darwin and the trader. Once the decision is made, follow through to the end.

You wrote about a measurement in the long term.

If you take January 2nd, 2024 as start date, it looks good - as a portfolio built from these Darwins is recovering from a 30% Drawdown since January 2nd, 2023. Your timing takes a lucky snapshot, if you start a year earlier, it is the opposite.

You can easily play the with a backtest - use leverage x4 to show it more dramatically:

The portfolio did not fully recover since beginning of 2023.

The reason are the fees, in such cases mainly the management fee and not the performance fees.

As you see in Q4/2023, the portfolio result of 30% loss is worse than any single Darwin's result.
Who can seriously tell an investor to stay in a losing portfolio with more than 20% losses?

Since beginning of 2022 this composition had an ATH of nearly 48% end of September 2022 which was never reached since.

The key challenges of a Darwin investment is not solved:
- identify a Darwin on the existing data which is worth to start an investment
- identify a Darwin position on the existing data which is to sell to keep profit

 

[FXforfun]

You wrote about a measurement in the long term.

If you take January 2nd, 2024 as start date, it looks good - as a portfolio built from these Darwins is recovering from a 30% Drawdown since January 2nd, 2023. Your timing takes a lucky snapshot, if you start a year earlier, it is the opposite.

You can easily play the with a backtest - use leverage x4 to show it more dramatically:

View attachment 337766

The portfolio did not fully recover since beginning of 2023.

The reason are the fees, in such cases mainly the management fee and not the performance fees.

As you see in Q4/2023, the portfolio result of 30% loss is worse than any single Darwin's result.
Who can seriously tell an investor to stay in a losing portfolio with more than 20% losses?

Since beginning of 2022 this composition had an ATH of nearly 48% end of September 2022 which was never reached since.

View attachment 337765

The key challenges of a Darwin investment is not solved:
- identify a Darwin on the existing data which is worth to start an investment
- identify a Darwin position on the existing data which is to sell to keep profit

Nice analysis!
Either way I think it still proves my point. Which is; Investment is a long term game. Since 2022 you'd have had a 30% profit aprox. Not bad.

The portfolio suffered a serious Drawdown of 30%. So what? I think 30% is something acceptable on any investment instrument. Now it looks recovering

There's something more to say here. 2023 has been quite a bizarre year. A lot of good Darwins have had a bad performance on 2023. I don't know exactly why. So probably including 2023 makes look the numbers worse than average.

I insist, I'm not an investor. I'm just trying to say that I suspect that an investor could have better results once he/she has choosen his Darwin provider (probably more important that the Darwin itself). Being patient and leting the others do the work for you. Kind of like the buy and hold strategy.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

There's something more to say here. 2023 has been quite a bizarre year. A lot of good Darwins have had a bad performance on 2023. I don't know exactly why. So probably including 2023 makes look the numbers worse than average.

The problem is that an investor who had made an investment since 2022 or beginning 2023 can't dash 2023 from his portfolio or performance. The money is gone - at least for the fees.

The composition discussed here as an example made 48% until September 2022 and 40% until end of 2022.

Both dates would be a good moment to leave with really nice profit and go for new investments.

The challenge is
- find criteria to leave a successful investment in time
- find criteria for alternatives to invest in new Darwins which were successful in 2023 as none of the composition above made net profit in 2023

The management fee looks small with 1.2 % per year, but with an x4 leverage that is 4.8% per year taken from the deposit.
As management fee is taken pro rata daily, it might be better for investors if Darwinex takes a higher fee (maximum doubled) for winning days and nothing for losing days or days without trading.
That would smooth the DD in 2023 in this example.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Derived from beacktests, a good combination for 7 Darwins could have been for the last 3 years, starting beginning of October of each year.
As Darwinex offers only x3 levarage for new demo portfolios, I also use this leverage here.

about 46.29% in one year from October 1st, 2021 until October 1st, 2022 with x3 leverage:

about 46.86% in one year from October 1st, 2022 until October 1st, 2023 with x3 leverage:

about 54,62% in one year from October 1st, 2023 until October 1st, 2024 with x3 leverage:

Don't forget, backtests only show survivers.

Inspired from this discussion, I built a new demo portfolio en of September 2024 here.

 

[ProfitPioneer]

Nice analysis!
Either way I think it still proves my point. Which is; Investment is a long term game. Since 2022 you'd have had a 30% profit aprox. Not bad.

The portfolio suffered a serious Drawdown of 30%. So what? I think 30% is something acceptable on any investment instrument. Now it looks recovering

There's something more to say here. 2023 has been quite a bizarre year. A lot of good Darwins have had a bad performance on 2023. I don't know exactly why. So probably including 2023 makes look the numbers worse than average.

I insist, I'm not an investor. I'm just trying to say that I suspect that an investor could have better results once he/she has choosen his Darwin provider (probably more important that the Darwin itself). Being patient and leting the others do the work for you. Kind of like the buy and hold strategy.

I’ve been reviewing posts about Darwinex portfolios and noticed a strong anti-Darwinex sentiment. I myself have shared similar concerns, particularly about the asymmetric return/loss structure and the survivorship bias inherent in the platform.

I must admit, I’ve lost a significant amount of money investing in Darwinex portfolios over the past two years. The backtest results were incredibly enticing, almost too good to be true. But as the old saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. The golden rule for any investor is to start small, as marketing hype and intricate details can easily lead you astray.

Reflecting on my experience with Darwinex and investing in general, I’ve come to a few key realizations:

1. Profiting in any market is hard, especially over the long term. This applies not just to forex or CFDs, but also to stocks, bonds, futures, options, and even cryptocurrencies.
2. Darwinex is a platform dominated by amateur to semi-professional traders. Most traders on Darwinex lack the backing of traditional hedge funds or institutional asset management roles.
3. Given the above, 99.9% of Darwins are destined to fail. The reality is that most traders behind these Darwins are amateurs, and trading is an extremely challenging endeavor. It’s no surprise that most investors end up losing money alongside these Darwins. The current ecosystem of Darwinex lacks institutional traders and investors, which further exacerbates the issue.
4. However, there’s a small chance (0.1%) that dedicated amateur traders can succeed. With time, energy, learning, persistence, and resilience, some traders can grow into professionals and even outperform institutional traders and fund managers. Many institutional asset managers are ordinary people who benefit from teamwork and institutional privileges rather than exceptional personal traits.
5. The real challenge is identifying the 0.1% of successful traders among thousands of Darwins. In this sense, Darwinex serves as a marketplace where traders and investors can connect. While this is a remarkable achievement, Darwinex cannot be held responsible for the profitability of investors who enter with limited trading or fund-of-funds (FOF) investment knowledge. Ultimately, the investor is solely responsible for their own investment decisions.
6. From my personal experience, most investors (myself included) tend to overact. We buy and sell too frequently, which often leads to losses. As FXforfun pointed out, many investors lack patience. Backtests on Darwinex assume that the portfolio remains unchanged over the test period, which could be one year, two years, or longer. In reality, many investors (including myself) constantly fine-tune portfolios, chasing recent top performers and cutting losses on recent underperformers. This behavior—chasing highs and selling lows—is a recipe for failure, whether in Darwinex or traditional stock picking. If we had simply held a selection of 5-10 well-performing Darwins over the past three years, the returns might have been decent. It’s our constant interventions that destroy the P&L. Yet, instead of blaming our own behavior, we often attribute losses to the traders behind the Darwins or Darwinex’s marketing.
7. FXforfun is correct: pick the trader and hold. Investing in a Darwin ultimately means investing in the trader behind it. We should analyze the trader’s behavior, consistency, and integrity. This is no easy task, which is why FOF investing is challenging even for traditional asset management institutions. Amateur investors often believe there’s an easy way to make money, but the reality is that no strategy performs well every month or week. Every strategy has weaknesses, and market cycles will eventually expose them. The true test is how a trader handles drawdowns—whether they stick to their rules, control maximum drawdowns within acceptable levels, and recover when market conditions improve. Many Darwins perform well for two or three years before crashing, a pattern typical of undisciplined amateur traders. In 2023, when EPG experienced a drawdown, I left a harsh and impolite comment on FXforfun’s blog, blaming the drawdown. He responded transparently, and upon analyzing the data, I realized his trading behavior hadn’t changed much. EPG eventually recovered in 2024, proving its resilience and the trader’s integrity. Time is the best metric to evaluate a Darwin, a trader, and an investor.
8. After years of investing, I’ve concluded that Warren Buffett might be right. For most people, the simplest and most effective investment strategy is to passively invest in a low-cost S&P 500 ETF. The underlying assumption is that America will continue to thrive, which is a strong but reasonable belief. If we accept this premise, following Buffett’s advice isn’t a bad idea, especially since most fund managers fail to outperform the S&P 500. Even Buffett’s performance is highly correlated with the index.

ABOUT DARWINEX
A few final thoughts on Darwinex: I want to clarify that I am not receiving any fees from Darwinex, and there is no conflict of interest. After my trading experience and my professional background in traditional asset management, I genuinely believe Darwinex is a great platform—not because it offers copy trading, but because of its transparency.

Darwinex provides a wealth of trading data and historical performance metrics for investors to analyze. Unlike many platforms, Darwinex does not delete closed Darwins, which creates a robust database that helps investors avoid survivorship bias. All Darwin data is accessible to investors via FTP, making it one of the most transparent platforms I’ve encountered. Additionally, Darwinex is open to inquiries about its platform, though the response time from their team can sometimes be slow.

With all this data, two conclusions stand out:

1. The platform operates with integrity.
2. The underlying data for each Darwin is extremely valuable.

In contrast, most traditional hedge funds operate like black boxes. Investors often rely on marketing materials or explanations from salespeople, making it much harder to verify performance or strategy compared to the transparency offered by Darwinex.

That said, Darwinex’s fee structure of 1.2% + 20% is not excessive compared to traditional hedge funds. However, since most Darwins are managed by less experienced traders compared to professional hedge fund managers, the platform could consider reducing its fees slightly to better reflect this gap in expertise.

These are some random thoughts after losing a significant amount of money on Darwinex. I’m open to feedback and eager to exchange ideas. Feel free to share your thoughts.

 

[Eyon_MUS]

Well written.

 

[DeLorenzoFund]

I’ve been reviewing posts about Darwinex portfolios and noticed a strong anti-Darwinex sentiment. I myself have shared similar concerns, particularly about the asymmetric return/loss structure and the survivorship bias inherent in the platform.

I must admit, I’ve lost a significant amount of money investing in Darwinex portfolios over the past two years. The backtest results were incredibly enticing, almost too good to be true. But as the old saying goes, there’s no such thing as a free lunch. The golden rule for any investor is to start small, as marketing hype and intricate details can easily lead you astray.

Reflecting on my experience with Darwinex and investing in general, I’ve come to a few key realizations:

1. Profiting in any market is hard, especially over the long term. This applies not just to forex or CFDs, but also to stocks, bonds, futures, options, and even cryptocurrencies.
2. Darwinex is a platform dominated by amateur to semi-professional traders. Most traders on Darwinex lack the backing of traditional hedge funds or institutional asset management roles.
3. Given the above, 99.9% of Darwins are destined to fail. The reality is that most traders behind these Darwins are amateurs, and trading is an extremely challenging endeavor. It’s no surprise that most investors end up losing money alongside these Darwins. The current ecosystem of Darwinex lacks institutional traders and investors, which further exacerbates the issue.
4. However, there’s a small chance (0.1%) that dedicated amateur traders can succeed. With time, energy, learning, persistence, and resilience, some traders can grow into professionals and even outperform institutional traders and fund managers. Many institutional asset managers are ordinary people who benefit from teamwork and institutional privileges rather than exceptional personal traits.
5. The real challenge is identifying the 0.1% of successful traders among thousands of Darwins. In this sense, Darwinex serves as a marketplace where traders and investors can connect. While this is a remarkable achievement, Darwinex cannot be held responsible for the profitability of investors who enter with limited trading or fund-of-funds (FOF) investment knowledge. Ultimately, the investor is solely responsible for their own investment decisions.
6. From my personal experience, most investors (myself included) tend to overact. We buy and sell too frequently, which often leads to losses. As FXforfun pointed out, many investors lack patience. Backtests on Darwinex assume that the portfolio remains unchanged over the test period, which could be one year, two years, or longer. In reality, many investors (including myself) constantly fine-tune portfolios, chasing recent top performers and cutting losses on recent underperformers. This behavior—chasing highs and selling lows—is a recipe for failure, whether in Darwinex or traditional stock picking. If we had simply held a selection of 5-10 well-performing Darwins over the past three years, the returns might have been decent. It’s our constant interventions that destroy the P&L. Yet, instead of blaming our own behavior, we often attribute losses to the traders behind the Darwins or Darwinex’s marketing.
7. FXforfun is correct: pick the trader and hold. Investing in a Darwin ultimately means investing in the trader behind it. We should analyze the trader’s behavior, consistency, and integrity. This is no easy task, which is why FOF investing is challenging even for traditional asset management institutions. Amateur investors often believe there’s an easy way to make money, but the reality is that no strategy performs well every month or week. Every strategy has weaknesses, and market cycles will eventually expose them. The true test is how a trader handles drawdowns—whether they stick to their rules, control maximum drawdowns within acceptable levels, and recover when market conditions improve. Many Darwins perform well for two or three years before crashing, a pattern typical of undisciplined amateur traders. In 2023, when EPG experienced a drawdown, I left a harsh and impolite comment on FXforfun’s blog, blaming the drawdown. He responded transparently, and upon analyzing the data, I realized his trading behavior hadn’t changed much. EPG eventually recovered in 2024, proving its resilience and the trader’s integrity. Time is the best metric to evaluate a Darwin, a trader, and an investor.
8. After years of investing, I’ve concluded that Warren Buffett might be right. For most people, the simplest and most effective investment strategy is to passively invest in a low-cost S&P 500 ETF. The underlying assumption is that America will continue to thrive, which is a strong but reasonable belief. If we accept this premise, following Buffett’s advice isn’t a bad idea, especially since most fund managers fail to outperform the S&P 500. Even Buffett’s performance is highly correlated with the index.

ABOUT DARWINEX
A few final thoughts on Darwinex: I want to clarify that I am not receiving any fees from Darwinex, and there is no conflict of interest. After my trading experience and my professional background in traditional asset management, I genuinely believe Darwinex is a great platform—not because it offers copy trading, but because of its transparency.

Darwinex provides a wealth of trading data and historical performance metrics for investors to analyze. Unlike many platforms, Darwinex does not delete closed Darwins, which creates a robust database that helps investors avoid survivorship bias. All Darwin data is accessible to investors via FTP, making it one of the most transparent platforms I’ve encountered. Additionally, Darwinex is open to inquiries about its platform, though the response time from their team can sometimes be slow.

With all this data, two conclusions stand out:

1. The platform operates with integrity.
2. The underlying data for each Darwin is extremely valuable.

In contrast, most traditional hedge funds operate like black boxes. Investors often rely on marketing materials or explanations from salespeople, making it much harder to verify performance or strategy compared to the transparency offered by Darwinex.

That said, Darwinex’s fee structure of 1.2% + 20% is not excessive compared to traditional hedge funds. However, since most Darwins are managed by less experienced traders compared to professional hedge fund managers, the platform could consider reducing its fees slightly to better reflect this gap in expertise.

These are some random thoughts after losing a significant amount of money on Darwinex. I’m open to feedback and eager to exchange ideas. Feel free to share your thoughts.

I'm a trader at Darwinex, I've been working on my strategies for the past few years, I'm not perfect but I bring a lot of passion to it, I strive to constantly improve and become a better trader with time and experience. I enjoyed reading your post and I agree with all your points. A lot of traders chase unrealistic returns, and a lot of investors expect them.

My focus on trading has always been to provide diversification to my overall portfolio as supposed to outsized returns, being aware of the fact that my strategies might have good and bad years, with the goal that over time, by remaining uncorrelated as much as possible to the broad indices, might result in a smoother equity curve.

I run four Darwins that combine all my strategies that I trade and invest on myself (on other platforms) as part of my long term portfolio, minus my options trading strategy.

I agree with you on the need for investors to have a process in place to select alternative investments including Darwins. What makes it hard of course is not really knowing the person behind the strategy or the strategy itself, I try to provide as much detail on my approach on my blog and on Darwinex.

One of the key points I agree with you is the need to stick to the strategies once selected and make it part of a long term hold, or at least have a thought out plan of when to get in or out of those investments by removing emotions out of the decision process. A good example of this behavior is to look at the AUM of Managed Futures funds, those tend to do well during market downturns, but tend to remain stagnant or negative while markets are ripping higher, the AUM on those types of funds always goes up exponentially right after the crisis has ended ( 2009-2010) (2023-2024) this shows the behavior of chasing things after they have happened, while investors that held those funds by having a fixed allocation to them, buying them consistently and dollar cost averaging, got rewarded for those stagnant periods of time. (not suggesting Managed Futures funds this is an example)

I'm running a demo test on Darwinex, where I'm looking to see the result of a consistent investment strategy involving my four Darwins, by investing in them once a month and holding them, planning on running this test for at least the next 1 to 2 years and see the final result net of fees. Follow my post on Darwinex Portfolios if you would like to see how it progresses.

Just like you I'm a fan of Darwinex and the opportunity they provide to both traders and investors, In my opinion it comes down to knowing how to use this opportunity and have a solid investment approach to go with it.

 

[ProfitPioneer]

I'm a trader at Darwinex, I've been working on my strategies for the past few years, I'm not perfect but I bring a lot of passion to it, I strive to constantly improve and become a better trader with time and experience. I enjoyed reading your post and I agree with all your points. A lot of traders chase unrealistic returns, and a lot of investors expect them.

My focus on trading has always been to provide diversification to my overall portfolio as supposed to outsized returns, being aware of the fact that my strategies might have good and bad years, with the goal that over time, by remaining uncorrelated as much as possible to the broad indices, might result in a smoother equity curve.

I run four Darwins that combine all my strategies that I trade and invest on myself (on other platforms) as part of my long term portfolio, minus my options trading strategy.

I agree with you on the need for investors to have a process in place to select alternative investments including Darwins. What makes it hard of course is not really knowing the person behind the strategy or the strategy itself, I try to provide as much detail on my approach on my blog and on Darwinex.

One of the key points I agree with you is the need to stick to the strategies once selected and make it part of a long term hold, or at least have a thought out plan of when to get in or out of those investments by removing emotions out of the decision process. A good example of this behavior is to look at the AUM of Managed Futures funds, those tend to do well during market downturns, but tend to remain stagnant or negative while markets are ripping higher, the AUM on those types of funds always goes up exponentially right after the crisis has ended ( 2009-2010) (2023-2024) this shows the behavior of chasing things after they have happened, while investors that held those funds by having a fixed allocation to them, buying them consistently and dollar cost averaging, got rewarded for those stagnant periods of time. (not suggesting Managed Futures funds this is an example)

I'm running a demo test on Darwinex, where I'm looking to see the result of a consistent investment strategy involving my four Darwins, by investing in them once a month and holding them, planning on running this test for at least the next 1 to 2 years and see the final result net of fees. Follow my post on Darwinex Portfolios if you would like to see how it progresses.

Just like you I'm a fan of Darwinex and the opportunity they provide to both traders and investors, In my opinion it comes down to knowing how to use this opportunity and have a solid investment approach to go with it.

Thanks for sharing your approach, I really appreciate the insights. I completely agree with you on the importance of diversification and sticking to a long-term strategy. It sounds like you have a solid plan in place, and I wish you the best of luck with your strategies going forward.

I’ll be sure to keep an eye on your progress with the BVK and DXH. Best of luck with your demo test and I look forward to seeing the results!

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I’ve been reviewing posts about Darwinex portfolios and noticed a strong anti-Darwinex sentiment. I myself have shared similar concerns, particularly about the asymmetric return/loss structure and the survivorship bias inherent in the platform.

There are a lot of reasons for it - just if you know Darwinex for a long time and remember better times. 🙂

A lot of things were going worse - and valueable information is not shown anymore like divergence and the fooling Darwin prizes of the past until 03/12/2023.

The handling of the platform is one of the worst things - I don't know any other financial homepage where such a bad programming is not improved since years.
I just had to "reset" my password as Darwinex didn't know it anymore.
They are deleting your link with valueable information - f.e. my backtest Darwins are forever gone and it is not restoreable.
They manipulate your browsers links and delete them - that's the reason for this. Incredible...
There is no reasonable reason for that behaviour but hiding errors and scratching factual history.
Filters are not usuable over the weekend as there are unknown background operations running.

There will also never be a real helpful tool for investors to find the Darwins to invest to make money.
All is presented in colourful pictures with mostly useless attrtibutes and a very limited history.
If there were holy grail Darwins and every investor would buy it, they will lose the rest of the traders who are at Darwinex with the main motivation to attract investor capital or DarwinIA prizes.
To keep them in the game, there is also DarwinIA which is really improved by the guaranteed allocation in DarwinIA SILVER.

I take this as the typical mindset of a forex broker, "gimme your money so I can make money for me with it" - regardless what's happening to your money.
Additional there is the prop firm business added which they call DarwinexZero which fulfills all criteria of a typical average prop firm with their prizing - the company will always win.

 

[ProfitPioneer]

There are a lot of reasons for it - just if you know Darwinex for a long time and remember better times. 🙂

A lot of things were going worse - and valueable information is not shown anymore like divergence and the fooling Darwin prizes of the past until 03/12/2023.

The handling of the platform is one of the worst things - I don't know any other financial homepage where such a bad programming is not improved since years.
I just had to "reset" my password as Darwinex didn't know it anymore.
They are deleting your link with valueable information - f.e. my backtest Darwins are forever gone and it is not restoreable.
They manipulate your browsers links and delete them - that's the reason for this. Incredible...
There is no reasonable reason for that behaviour but hiding errors and scratching factual history.
Filters are not usuable over the weekend as there are unknown background operations running.

There will also never be a real helpful tool for investors to find the Darwins to invest to make money.
All is presented in colourful pictures with mostly useless attrtibutes and a very limited history.
If there were holy grail Darwins and every investor would buy it, they will lose the rest of the traders who are at Darwinex with the main motivation to attract investor capital or DarwinIA prizes.
To keep them in the game, there is also DarwinIA which is really improved by the guaranteed allocation in DarwinIA SILVER.

I take this as the typical mindset of a forex broker, "gimme your money so I can make money for me with it" - regardless what's happening to your money.
Additional there is the prop firm business added which they call DarwinexZero which fulfills all criteria of a typical average prop firm with their prizing - the company will always win.

I greatly respect your extensive experience and long-standing involvement in the Darwinex community. Your many years on the official Darwinex forum and your contributions through earlier posts have provided invaluable insights for me.

I have carefully considered your points and, while I agree with several of your observations, I also hold some different perspectives. Please know that my comments are purely based on my personal understanding and are not intended to offend.

I agree that Darwinex has made significant changes over time, and certain data—such as the divergence statistics—may not be as informative as they once were.

Business Model
My key understanding is that Darwinex operates a hybrid model combining brokerage and asset management, which is quite unique. This model, fundamentally, is a business for the founders, who face commercial pressures to keep the operation running. No broker or asset management firm or hedge fund, whether it’s Interactive Brokers, BlackRock, or Two Sigma, can guarantee a “holy grail” or a tool that allows any investor to earn money consistently every month without drawdowns. The investor is responsible for the investment and should have a reasonable expectation on investments.

Regarding the old Darwin prizes,
our backtests conducted in early 2023 (using historical data dating probably back to 2017) indicate that the monthly allocations themselves are not inherently making money. In fact, investing in the top performers each month for the following six months has, in our analysis, resulted in losses rather than gains. It seems that this particular portfolio construction method is one among many available, chosen by Darwinex.
(1) One possible explanation is that Darwinex does not actually invest the allocated funds into the Darwin; if a winning Darwin continues to perform well, Darwinex would incur performance fees on the trades, which might not be sustainable.
(2) Alternatively, the Darwin prizes likely serve as an effective marketing tool, attracting talented traders from platforms like Myfxbook or MQL5. This marketing benefit, through increased commissions and management fees from attracting investors, may well outweigh the nominal loss from the monthly allocations.

Ultimately, both the Darwin prizes and DarwinIA are designed as incentives for traders. A truly robust and sustainable trading strategy will naturally attract prizes and monthly allocations, and if a strategy underperforms, investors will eventually withdraw their funds. As traders, our primary focus should remain on researching and continuously improving our strategies.

Functional and user interface issues
There are some functional and user interface issues on the platform—for example, the password reset process, the saving of backtest results, and filter usability. As an investor, I would welcome improvements in these areas; however, these issues are not critical to my investment decisions.

I also agree that attributes some provided with limited historical data. I would be pleased if all processed data were made fully available to investors.

Return After Divergence
On a positive note, I appreciate the recent changes Darwinex has made, such as updating the homepage returns for each Darwin to reflect the actual investor returns after divergence and fees (effective from late 2023 or early 2024). This update is particularly important as it helps ensure that scalping Darwins are presented more accurately to investors, preventing any misleading allure based on pre-divergence returns.

DarwinexZero
Regarding DarwinexZero, I personally understand this product line is driven by Darwinex’s business perspective, and personally, I do not consider those Darwins when evaluating my investments.

Short Darwins
Lastly, one significant change I sincerely hope Darwinex will implement is the ability to short Darwins. This functionality would have two major benefits:
(1) it would greatly improve the profit potential for investors who wish to short certain Darwins, thereby attracting more investors and increasing management fee revenues;
(2) if some investors go long while others go short on the same Darwin, their orders could help neutralize overall market exposure and reduce divergence for all investors involved.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I may ask a more personal question: Despite having experienced some challenges with Darwinex and holding some critical views, you have remained one of the most active members in the Darwin ecosystem and even started Darwinex portfolios in 2025. Could you share what motivates you to continue engaging so actively in the forum despite these experiences?

Thank you for your time and insights.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Regarding the old Darwin prizes
I think they should change the Darwinex prizes of the past as Darwinex Classic should be mainly the investor view.

My favorite example:
THA never made astronomic 800% at Darwinex as they started in 2017 with a price of about 200 (%) on the Darwinex platform. So it would be hypothetically 400% - but not even that is true for investors.
The most honest view for investable Darwins can be seen here:

https://team.alphanet.io/darwin_analysis/THA/?sv=6.5&pf=20.0&mf=1.2&is=00001

But also here the presentation is not honest as they don't show when the Darwin started on the Darwinex Classic platform.
IMO they should correct it - 160% in less than 10 years at Darwinex is not so bad.
But of course it is easier to take fees permanently from 25 mln. of investor's money where the fooled investors can see remarkable profit only every few years. The rest of the time they spend mainly paying fees and waiting.
I think Darwinex is also not really happy with it as it is their only flagship Darwin.

Risk classes of Darwins:
What they should add to the Darwinex Classic platform is showing the "asset family" (as they call the risk class at DarwinexZero), also if the trader does not want to show the assets traded.
This has mandatory relevance for an investor to understand some moves of the Darwins.
IMO the trader does not lose any intellectual property but the investor could decide whether he wants to trade or own this risk class or not.

Example from my D-Zero Darwin:

DarwinexZero
The presentation of D-Zero Darwins is much better than at Darwinex Classic and IMO also much better for investors.
Other valuable information there is the "Drawdown Analysis" which is also visible via the THA link above for investable Darwins.

Example from my D-Zero Darwin:

Short Darwins
IMO that will never be offered as their risk manager can't handle it.
The risk manager closes positions completely or partially or it reduces lot sizes in a drawdown period to cut the Darwin's losses - what should it do if the Darwin is shorted? Just to do the opposite might not work.
If a trader has long and short positions, the positions are taken net to the Darwin.

Shorting Darwins is always a really very interesting idea.
There was also a proposal for that years ago and they denied it.
A main problem here is also that they have to write their tax report for every single trade on a currency pair or a stock.
As long as a Darwin is not a really own asset, that would always be very difficult.

Could you share what motivates you to continue engaging so actively in the forum despite these experiences?
I'm still acitve with a DarwinexZero Darwin which is not investable yet and did not get an allocation yet.
If one of these criteria is filled, I might publish it.
So I'm not completely out of the game. 🙂
Trading a real money account is difficult in Germany since 2021 as they capped the total sum of losses to 20k per year for all speculative assets (options, futures, Forex etc.) for all accounts - that stupid law has nothing to do with Darwinex.
So DarwinexZero is a nicer solution - at least for German citizens - to keep trading the markets and maybe make a little money anytime.
I also think it does not help anybody if you only read stories about hero traders - who usually disappear anytime like a ghost when they turn to losers - at least temporarily.
Since the old forum was deleted where there were more helping voices, some questions here will never be answered if I won't write some words.
Maybe I'm just curious what happens at Darwinex and how others live with it. 🙂

edit - added:
If you acquired knowledge and you don't use it and don't share it, it's worth nothing. (my personal opinion from the bottom of my heart)

 

[ProfitPioneer]

Regarding the old Darwin prizes
I think they should change the Darwinex prizes of the past as Darwinex Classic should be mainly the investor view.

My favorite example:
THA never made astronomic 800% at Darwinex as they started in 2017 with a price of about 200 (%) on the Darwinex platform. So it would be hypothetically 400% - but not even that is true for investors.
The most honest view for investable Darwins can be seen here:

https://team.alphanet.io/darwin_analysis/THA/?sv=6.5&pf=20.0&mf=1.2&is=00001

But also here the presentation is not honest as they don't show when the Darwin started on the Darwinex Classic platform.
IMO they should correct it - 160% in less than 10 years at Darwinex is not so bad.
But of course it is easier to take fees permanently from 25 mln. of investor's money where the fooled investors can see remarkable profit only every few years. The rest of the time they spend mainly paying fees and waiting.
I think Darwinex is also not really happy with it as it is their only flagship Darwin.

Risk classes of Darwins:
What they should add to the Darwinex Classic platform is showing the "asset family" (as they call the risk class at DarwinexZero), also if the trader does not want to show the assets traded.
This has mandatory relevance for an investor to understand some moves of the Darwins.
IMO the trader does not lose any intellectual property but the investor could decide whether he wants to trade or own this risk class or not.

Example from my D-Zero Darwin:
View attachment 340073

DarwinexZero
The presentation of D-Zero Darwins is much better than at Darwinex Classic and IMO also much better for investors.
Other valuable information there is the "Drawdown Analysis" which is also visible via the THA link above for investable Darwins.

Example from my D-Zero Darwin:
View attachment 340075

Short Darwins
IMO that will never be offered as their risk manager can't handle it.
The risk manager closes positions completely or partially or it reduces lot sizes in a drawdown period to cut the Darwin's losses - what should it do if the Darwin is shorted? Just to do the opposite might not work.
If a trader has long and short positions, the positions are taken net to the Darwin.

Shorting Darwins is always a really very interesting idea.
There was also a proposal for that years ago and they denied it.
A main problem here is also that they have to write their tax report for every single trade on a currency pair or a stock.
As long as a Darwin is not a really own asset, that would always be very difficult.

Could you share what motivates you to continue engaging so actively in the forum despite these experiences?
I'm still acitve with a DarwinexZero Darwin which is not investable yet and did not get an allocation yet.
If one of these criteria is filled, I might publish it.
So I'm not completely out of the game. 🙂
Trading a real money account is difficult in Germany since 2021 as they capped the total sum of losses to 20k per year for all speculative assets (options, futures, Forex etc.) for all accounts - that stupid law has nothing to do with Darwinex.
So DarwinexZero is a nicer solution - at least for German citizens - to keep trading the markets and maybe make a little money anytime.
I also think it does not help anybody if you only read stories about hero traders - who usually disappear anytime like a ghost when they turn to losers - at least temporarily.
Since the old forum was deleted where there were more helping voices, some questions here will never be answered if I won't write some words.
Maybe I'm just curious what happens at Darwinex and how others live with it. 🙂

edit - added:
If you acquired knowledge and you don't use it and don't share it, it's worth nothing. (my personal opinion from the bottom of my heart)

I sincerely appreciate your comprehensive introduction of the changes Darwinex has implemented over the years, as shared through your many forum posts. Your insights have significantly enhanced transparency within the ecosystem, enabling investors—especially those new to the platform—to approach investments in Darwins with greater caution.

I also concur with your criticisms regarding THA. The homepage display of THA’s returns does not accurately reflect the actual returns received by investors, largely due to divergence issues. The link you provided to team.alphanet.io offers a more realistic return profile for THA. Our analysis indicates that THA was originally based on scalping strategies developed years ago, which may result in substantial divergence for investors. I recall a forum member sharing a screenshot from several years ago that illustrated how THA appeared profitable, yet some investors experienced losses during certain trading periods because of divergence.

Furthermore, I agree that enhancing platform functionalities—such as providing detailed asset class breakdowns and more comprehensive drawdown analysis, similar to what is available on https://team.alphanet.io and DarwinZero—would be highly beneficial for investors. Mandating that traders disclose their trading asset classes (while keeping individual trades confidential) would also be reassuring. Currently, the fact that many Darwins conceal their asset allocations makes it challenging to conduct thorough analysis and undermines investor confidence.

Thank you for your continued efforts in shedding light on these critical aspects of the Darwinex platform. I wish you continued success with your trading strategies and a strong year of returns for your investments in 2025.

 

[ProfitPioneer]

I wish to express my sincere respect for the team behind THA. They demonstrate excellence in two critical areas:
first, they possess a clear edge in trading macro news; and
second, they exhibit outstanding trading discipline.

Together, these strengths enable their strategy to maintain a controlled drawdown while delivering a consistent long-term return profile.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

I wish to express my sincere respect for the team behind THA. They demonstrate excellence in two critical areas:
first, they possess a clear edge in trading macro news; and
second, they exhibit outstanding trading discipline.

Together, these strengths enable their strategy to maintain a controlled drawdown while delivering a consistent long-term return profile.

My objections against THA are not related to their trading, but against the fooling presentation of THA, mainly against the misleading 800% return which were never seen at Darwinex.

Darwinex make 300k on management fees per year with it and more than 30k on investor fees in 2024 while the winning investors made only 800k, long term investors made not even 2 % for investors in 2024 with months in a DD.